# Passport with no photo **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 26, 2018, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157 "2018-04-26T11:59:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157/41 "2018-04-27T19:23:17Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > If you are rich (the kind with private planes and all) you don’t need passports. [https://www.npr.org/2018/02/19/586457604/whats-it-like-to-be-rich-ask-the-people-who-manage-billionaires-money](https://www.npr.org/2018/02/19/586457604/whats-it-like-to-be-rich-ask-the-people-who-manage-billionaires-money) You still have to go thru customs. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157/42 "2018-04-27T22:29:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You still have to go thru customs. And when you do, it’s a guy asking your staff if you had anything to declare. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157/43 "2018-04-28T15:10:12Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > If she did apply for one, it would presumably be granted. She is a British citizen, after all. Is she? I thought the whole sovereign thing still held in a few areas. I remember at the beginning of [_The Queen_](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0436697/reference), Helen Mirren as Elizabeth II was getting a portrait painted. It was the eve of Tony Blair’s election and as the artist was getting his paints ready they bantered back and forth a bit about whether he would be “good for the Royals.” Then she said, somewhat wistfully, “I should like to vote once, just to see what it was like.” Now, this was a movie, “based on true events” but I’d be willing to bet screenwriter Peter Morgan did not make that up out of whole cloth and if the real Queen really wanted to vote she’d bloody well go out and get her voting card, if it was allowed. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157/44 "2018-04-28T16:47:31Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > And when you do, it’s a guy asking your staff if you had anything to declare. Read Jimmy Buffets books sometime. He runs into customs issues in a Pirate Looks at Fifty fairly often. He even carries CD’s and Tshirts and hands out the largesse to officials. Now he’s hardly the super rich, but he is a celebrity. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157/45 "2018-04-29T22:15:07Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I recall similar cases regarding drivers’ licenses in Ontario and Quebec - the persons did not want to remove their veils for a license photo as it was “against their religion”. IIRC they lost their case. > > Which brings up the obvious question - what’s on Saudi women’s passports? (and now, drivers licenses…) The woman I mentioned in Tenn. who did not allow her picture to be taken at DMV was Christian, not Muslim. She said a photo was a “graven image” that was not allowed by the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157/46 "2018-04-30T01:21:07Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Is she? Yes, she is. She wasn’t always Queen, remember. She was born into comparatively disadvantaged circumstances as but a humble Princess of York and, under the law in force at the time, she was a British Subject from birth. By the time of her accession, that status had been altered by statute; she was a “Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies”. That’s a statutory creation; the statute lays out the circumstances in which you can acquire and lose the status; “ascending to the throne” is not a circumstance in which you lose the status. She remained a Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies until that status was in turn converted into “British Citizen” status in 1981. > [@DesertDog](#): > > I thought the whole sovereign thing still held in a few areas. I remember at the beginning of [_The Queen_](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0436697/reference), Helen Mirren as Elizabeth II was getting a portrait painted. It was the eve of Tony Blair’s election and as the artist was getting his paints ready they bantered back and forth a bit about whether he would be “good for the Royals.” Then she said, somewhat wistfully, “I should like to vote once, just to see what it was like.” > > Now, this was a movie, “based on true events” but I’d be willing to bet screenwriter Peter Morgan did not make that up out of whole cloth and if the real Queen really wanted to vote she’d bloody well go out and get her voting card, if it was allowed. Parliament in the UK consists of three estates; Queen (or King), Lords and Commons. People who are members in their own right of either of the top two estates do not get to vote in elections for the third. So the monarch and the members of the House of Lords have no vote in elections. Prior to her accession the Queen could, as a matter of strict law, have voted, as can any member of the Royal Family who does not have a peerage. But by convention they never do vote, or indeed register to vote; they are supposed to be apolitical. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157/47 "2018-04-30T04:17:00Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Which brings up the obvious question - what’s on Saudi women’s passports? (and now, drivers licenses…) Women with Saudi passport (and men) must be photographed in “normal saudi dress” > **[Saudi passport](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_passport)** > > The Saudi passport (Arabic: جواز السفر السعودي) is a passport document issued to citizens of Saudi Arabia for international travel. It is valid for five or ten lunar years, equal to three or five solar years. > An applicant is required to fill in an online form for the first time. In the case of passport renewal, an applicant is not required to fill in the form where the passport can be renewed with a few online steps through Absher online platform. An applicant must have a valid Government ID to ... ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157/48 "2018-04-30T04:46:36Z")
> [@ThisOneGuy](#): > > Had an ex-brother in law who was working at the US embassy in Saudi doing visas for US entry. Some fairly high ranking woman from the royal family wanted to go to the US. Presented a passport with a picture of her in a vail. He didn’t accept it, and refused to issue the visa. > She came back with a passport with a picture of her face, and he was briefly allowed to see her unveiled to check against the photo. He was rather smug about it when telling the story. You realize, of course, that to a devout Muslim this story would sound the same as if we read one about a customs official who smugly told the story of demanding to see a royal woman’s “boobies” before allowing her to travel. The usual work-around is to ask a female coworker to look and make the determination. Almost certainly the photograph was taken and (if necessary) developed by a female. Your friend may well be the only man to have seen this woman’s face outside her husband and immediate family. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157/49 "2018-04-30T04:49:31Z")
As to the pastafarian, I wonder whether he was thereafter required to wear the colander whenever he traveled? I could totally see ICE saying: “You can’t be Mr. X, because Mr. X never leaves the house without his colander. He is a devout pastafarian. Now, who are you, and what have you done with him?” ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157/50 "2018-04-30T05:18:26Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > As to the pastafarian, I wonder whether he was thereafter required to wear the colander whenever he traveled? I could totally see ICE saying: > > “You can’t be Mr. X, because Mr. X never leaves the house without his colander. He is a devout pastafarian. > Now, who are you, and what have you done with him?” Although the OP says that the Pastafarian got a waiver “for passport photographs and in general”, the linked newspaper report only mentions a driver’s licence. Passport offices tend to be particularly anal, and I don’t recall seeing any reports of Pastafarians getting waivers from passport photograph requirements. (There may, of course, be some countries whose passport photograph requirements don’t include a “no hats” rule; just a rule saying that the hat mustn’t obscure your face.) ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157/51 "2018-04-30T15:11:19Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > You realize, of course, that to a devout Muslim this story would sound the same as if we read one about a customs official who smugly told the story of demanding to see a royal woman’s “boobies” before allowing her to travel. The usual work-around is to ask a female coworker to look and make the determination. Almost certainly the photograph was taken and (if necessary) developed by a female. > > Your friend may well be the only man to have seen this woman’s face outside her husband and immediate family. But of course, thanks to Saudi policy (or “requests”), there might not be any qualified women working the travel documents desk in the US embassy in Saudi Arabia… because if the embassy followed US rules, then Saudi men would have to deal with that woman also. ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157/52 "2018-04-30T16:54:12Z")
When my son was born in the NWFP in Pakistan, we travelled by vehicle to Afghanistan using only a “travel document” for him very generously and good-heartedly written by the US consul in Peshawar, bless his soul. No photo or anything, just something typed on a sheet of paper with a stamp. The document was accepted by both the Pakistani and Afghani border peeps at the frontier in the Khyber Pass. It was a touch and go situation at the frontier leaving Pakistan as even our vehicle document, the famous Carnet de Passage, was out of date having expired at least a year before. After much chat, our son was hailed as a “Swati”, and thus we were granted leave to leave and here we are to tell the tale. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157/53 "2018-05-01T00:52:59Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > But of course, thanks to Saudi policy (or “requests”), there might not be any qualified women working the travel documents desk in the US embassy in Saudi Arabia… because if the embassy followed US rules, then Saudi men would have to deal with that woman also. No. In situations where a woman’s face may need to be exposed - e.g. for a security check - there are always women staff on hand, so that she doesn’t need to expose herself to a man. I’d have no doubt that the US embassy in Saudi is capable of finding a female official for this purpose, but I’m calling B.S. on the whole story because it starts with the claim that the woman produced a passport with a photograph of her veiled. Saudi passports show a full-face image, with face uncovered, for both men and women. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157/54 "2018-05-01T04:51:22Z")
> [@bardos](#): > > When my son was born in the NWFP in Pakistan, we travelled by vehicle to Afghanistan using only a “travel document” for him very generously and good-heartedly written by the US consul in Peshawar, bless his soul. No photo or anything, just something typed on a sheet of paper with a stamp. The document was accepted by both the Pakistani and Afghani border peeps at the frontier in the Khyber Pass. It was a touch and go situation at the frontier leaving Pakistan as even our vehicle document, the famous Carnet de Passage, was out of date having expired at least a year before. After much chat, our son was hailed as a “Swati”, and thus we were granted leave to leave and here we are to tell the tale. Until about the time 9/11 screwed things up, it was not uncommon to cross between Canada and the USA using a printed driver’s license, even in the days before photos on licenses when it was just a computer-printed form. But… that was a special border compared to the rest of the world. > [@UDS](#): > > No. In situations where a woman’s face may need to be exposed - e.g. for a security check - there are always women staff on hand, so that she doesn’t need to expose herself to a man. > > I’d have no doubt that the US embassy in Saudi is capable of finding a female official for this purpose, but I’m calling B.S. on the whole story because it starts with the claim that the woman produced a passport with a photograph of her veiled. Saudi passports show a full-face image, with face uncovered, for both men and women. I’ll agree; never been to Saudi Arabia (except for a brief stop, no leaving the plane) but everywhere that I’ve been that had security - Egypt, UAE, Jordan, not to mention Europe, there were female security for any women’s checks more invasive than metal detector and handbag scan. Even in India - whenever my wife went through a security check, there was a likely as not a separate little curtained area where women were available to do the check; it seemed usually men did not even get to wand a woman (metal detector wand) without touching her. Even that was considered a bit too forward, it seemed. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157/55 "2018-05-01T17:59:10Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > You realize, of course, that to a devout Muslim this story would sound the same as if we read one about a customs official who smugly told the story of demanding to see a royal woman’s “boobies” before allowing her to travel. The usual work-around is to ask a female coworker to look and make the determination. Almost certainly the photograph was taken and (if necessary) developed by a female. > . Maybe they could join the rest of the world and stop suppressing their women? ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157/56 "2018-05-10T13:14:07Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I have no doubt at all that certain countries expedite certain visitors, to various degrees. > > [snip] > > One only has to google a few terms to come up with instances where the super-rich have run into problems with international travel: > > [This Is What Happens When A Billionaire Tries To Get On A Plane With $1 Million Cash In His Luggage](https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2012/06/27/billionaire-christo-wiese-south-africa-richest-cash-luggage/#1a4d2a6c50c4) > > [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-crime-macau/exclusive-macau-billionaire-jailed-in-u-s-subpoenaed-in-foreign-bribery-probe-idUSKCN0RP27N20150925](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-crime-macau/exclusive-macau-billionaire-jailed-in-u-s-subpoenaed-in-foreign-bribery-probe-idUSKCN0RP27N20150925) > > [http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-gilbert-chagoury-lawsuit-20160915-snap-story.html](http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-gilbert-chagoury-lawsuit-20160915-snap-story.html) Just to add another anecdote to your list: Sharon Osbourne denied entry to Mexico from a private plane because she forgot her passport. > **[Sharon Osbourne Gets Stuck on Private Jet In Mexico After Leaving Passport at...](https://people.com/home/sharon-osbourne-stuck-private-jet-mexico-leaving-passport-home/)** > > On Tuesday, Sharon Osbourne shared her traveling mishap over the weekend on social media and her show, The Talk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passport-with-no-photo/813157.md?page=2)