# Passports to be required to enter US from Canada, Mexico, elsewhere **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 5, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858 "2005-04-05T16:27:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/1 "2005-04-05T16:27:45Z")
[Here it comes:](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/04/05/us_to_tighten_border_controls_by_2008/) > [@](#): > > Americans will need passports to re-enter the United States from Canada, Mexico, Panama and Bermuda by 2008, part of a tightening of U.S. border controls in an era of terrorist threat, three administration officials said Tuesday. > > Similarly, Canadians will also have to present a passport to enter the United States, said the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity. Canadians have been the only foreigners allowed to enter the United States with just a driver’s license. > > … > Speaking at Baylor University at Waco, Tex., Bush said border controls with Mexico had to be tightened to make sure that terrorists, drug runners, gun runners and smugglers do not enter the United States. As if tightening checks on legal routes and law-abiding people will block illegal routes and catch checkpoint evaders? This is simple feel-goodism at the expense of global trade and tourism. The cost and inconvenience of passports is going to stop plenty of legitimate cross-border travel. But how many “terrorists, drug runners, gun runners and smugglers” would have been caught in recent years if they’d had passports? Any good estimates? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/2 "2005-04-05T16:36:22Z")
Not very good fact-checking. Canadians haven’t ever been allowed to enter the US with just a driver’s license. Proof of citizenship (i.e., birth certificate + photo id, passport, etc) has always been the requirement. Not universally enforced, but that’s the rule. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/3 "2005-04-05T16:38:30Z")
Here comes _what_, exactly? > [@](#): > > The cost and inconvenience of passports is going to stop plenty of legitimate cross-border travel. But how many “terrorists, drug runners, gun runners and smugglers” would have been caught in recent years if they’d had passports? Any good estimates? Probably none. But why is a passport any more of an inconvenience than a driver’s license, birth certificate, or any other form of identification? It’s probably the easiest of any to obtain. Ten minutes at the post office and the thing shows up in your mailbox. ---
**Author:** ![Phatlewt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a698b9/32.png) [@Phatlewt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phatlewt)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/4 "2005-04-05T16:46:16Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Ten minutes at the post office and the thing shows up in your mailbox. Ten minutes and [$82 to $97…](http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppi/news/news_2131.html) ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/5 "2005-04-05T16:55:20Z")
Yeah, but that ain’t that much more costly than a driver’s license in some states - particularly when you consider that a passport is valid for ten years while a driver’s license is generally less than half that. And $100, to me, doesn’t seem an unreasonable expenditure to required for international travel. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/6 "2005-04-05T17:00:39Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Here comes _what_, exactly? > Probably none. But why is a passport any more of an inconvenience than a driver’s license, birth certificate, or any other form of identification? It’s probably the easiest of any to obtain. Ten minutes at the post office and the thing shows up in your mailbox. Ah, but I need a driver’s license for purposes other than crossing the border, and I haven’t yet lost my birth certificate. So I don’t need to obtain either of them. On the other hand, there’s some hassle to getting a passport. The requirement might indeed make me inclined to travel north of the Great Lakes rather than south of them next time I head for southern Ontario. I’d guess that requiring passports would indeed reduce the amount of casual cross-border traffic, though it’d also be a boon to passport photo shops in places like Windsor. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/7 "2005-04-05T17:10:57Z")
> [@](#): > > I’d guess that requiring passports would indeed reduce the amount of casual cross-border traffic, though it’d also be a boon to passport photo shops in places like Windsor. I suppose. But living as I do, a mere 60 miles from Windsor, I think the majority of the casual cross-border traffic on the Ambassador bridge is American bachelor/bachelorette parties heading north to your far more liberal nudie bars. Not a terribly grave national economic concern, eh? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/8 "2005-04-05T17:11:53Z")
$97, even in Canadian, is a real burden for a fair number of people, certainly enough to make some reconsider their travel plans, and certainly dampening business in border areas (other than photo shops, as **Gorsnak** says). Nobody wants to claim this will make us safer, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/9 "2005-04-05T17:19:02Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Yeah, but that ain’t that much more costly than a driver’s license in some states - particularly when you consider that a passport is valid for ten years while a driver’s license is generally less than half that. Canadian passports are only valid for five years. > [@](#): > > And $100, to me, doesn’t seem an unreasonable expenditure to required for international travel. Does it seem like an unreasonable expenditure for a two-hour drive? That’s the question governors of states along the northern U.S. border are going to be asking. Those states are the ones with the most to lose in terms of cross-border traffic, which involves a wee bit more than people driving to nudie bars in Windsor. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/10 "2005-04-05T17:21:34Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > I suppose. But living as I do, a mere 60 miles from Windsor, I think the majority of the casual cross-border traffic on the Ambassador bridge is American bachelor/bachelorette parties heading north to your far more liberal nudie bars. Not a terribly grave national economic concern, eh? Grave national economic concern? No, certainly not. You can expect the Windsor city council to be pretty pissed off, though. That casino is a big revenue stream. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/11 "2005-04-05T17:29:37Z")
Bah. I live about an hour from Windsor myself. Don’t go there much and won’t go at all if they start to require a passport. It will hit the Detroit-Windsor area especially hard. The Tigers and Red Wings will lose some of their Canadian ticket buyers. The Windsor casino will take a major hit. A lot of people like to gamble across the border, although Detroit boasts three casinos of its own. A lot of Michiganders cross over to buy toilets that use more water but work better. And of course the bachelor parties at Jason’s will be a thing of the past. And what do we gain? Diddly squat. Before we institute new hassles for people, how about figuring out if there really is a payoff. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/12 "2005-04-05T17:37:26Z")
If it makes the OP feel any better, we decided to get passports for our upcoming trip to Vancouver, rather than carry birth certificates. Besides the fact that birth certs are big and a bit awkward, I feel that presenting a passport on landing somehow shows more respect for the sovereignty of the country I’m visiting. Even if it is just 36 hours in Vancouver and Victoria. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/13 "2005-04-05T17:40:47Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Probably none. But why is a passport any more of an inconvenience than a driver’s license, birth certificate, or any other form of identification? It’s probably the easiest of any to obtain. Ten minutes at the post office and the thing shows up in your mailbox. Jesus, and WE get criticized for having lax security. Surely you have to do more than just show up at the Post Office with some money? Getting a passport in Canada is a tremendous hassle; in addition to the $87 fee, you need to get photographs taken just so - even professional photographers who specialize in passport photos have their photos rejected - get people in certain professions to sign a variety of forms, etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![badmana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@badmana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badmana)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/14 "2005-04-05T17:44:27Z")
Actually, getting a passport in Canada is a PITA. You have to get stuff signed by a doctor/dentist/etc, photo taken and verified (again, via a dentist/doctor whatever). And pay that $100 (I think it was a little less but it’s been a while). Not worth it for a trip across the border. Funny how my gun license required less effort to get and last forever (and is much cheaper). The last time I crossed the border (Chirstmas of 2000) I had no trouble with just my driver’s license and a quick “where are you going, how long” etc. These days I avoid the US completely. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/15 "2005-04-05T17:50:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Surely you have to do more than just show up at the Post Office with some money? Yes, you need a birth certificate (or your old passport) and your official-format photos, too ($10 at the drugstore film counter takes care of it). No medical stuff, though. Plus, they’re good for 10 years for adults, not your 5. ---
**Author:** ![badmana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@badmana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badmana)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/16 "2005-04-05T17:59:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yes, you need a birth certificate (or your old passport) and your official-format photos, too ($10 at the drugstore film counter takes care of it). No medical stuff, though. Plus, they’re good for 10 years for adults, not your 5. Hah, so all you need to do is get a fake birth certificate (or I assume a citizenship card of some sort?) and some money. So there is in fact no way to confirm the name to the face? What kind of security is that? If I took someone else’s birthcertificate what prevents me from using that name on my passport? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/17 "2005-04-05T18:03:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No medical stuff, though. I don’t believe there’s any medical stuff here either. I think **badmana** ’s referring to the requirement that the photos be notarized, and medical professionals might well be on the list of people allowed to do that. At least, I don’t remember any medical stuff when I got mine, but that was 15 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/18 "2005-04-05T18:11:45Z")
> [@badmana](#): > > Hah, so all you need to do is get a fake birth certificate (or I assume a citizenship card of some sort?) If you were born here, your birth certificate \*is \* your citizenship card (it’s all you need to register to vote, too). Naturalized citizens get a card, though. > [@](#): > > So there is in fact no way to confirm the name to the face? What kind of security is that? No, there isn’t, and yes, it’s lax - so the requirement to get one to re-enter the country is even less useful than it appears on the surface. A passport agent who has suspicions must have unpublicized ways to act on them, though. > [@](#): > > If I took someone else’s birthcertificate what prevents me from using that name on my passport? Nothing, if that person didn’t already have their own passport, raising a flag when you apply for yours. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/19 "2005-04-05T18:41:23Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Probably none. But why is a passport any more of an inconvenience than a driver’s license, birth certificate, or any other form of identification? It’s probably the easiest of any to obtain. Ten minutes at the post office and the thing shows up in your mailbox. After getting a valid passport photo ($15) and paying for the passport ($55). Which is quite a kick for a family of four to go to Canada. Right now, it’s a good place to do a quick weekend away (just booked accomdations in Victoria for Memorial Day Weekend. I’ll be there 4 hours after leaving home) if you’re in one of those border states. But with this requirement, it’s going to seriously hurt tourism on both sides of the border. 75-80% of Americans do not have a passport. I highly doubt that they’re going to shell out for one (much less multiple passports) to cross the Canadian border. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858/20 "2005-04-05T19:04:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Hah, so all you need to do is get a fake birth certificate (or I assume a citizenship card of some sort?) and some money. So there is in fact no way to confirm the name to the face? What kind of security is that? Not quite. After completing the application form, the passport agent (who is generally a postal employee foremost) sends all that stuff, including the certified copy of your birth certificate, to our State Department. Presumably, those folks do some kinda background check and verification of the authenticity of your documents and application information. When that’s complete, the State Department returns your passport in the mail. > [@](#): > > If I took someone else’s birthcertificate what prevents me from using that name on my passport? You’ll need a valid picture id with that name, too. Like a driver’s license. And as noted previously, you’ll need a current photo, too. So, there’s quite a bit more to it than just showing up with a birth certificate. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/passports-to-be-required-to-enter-us-from-canada-mexico-elsewhere/297858.md?page=2)