# 'Pastafarian' fights to wear colander in BC driver's licence photo **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 14, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526 "2014-08-14T17:15:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/61 "2014-08-22T15:51:55Z")
It’s important to let religious folks where their garb, because they do it to try to prevent harm to their souls. People fighting against religion are only try to prevent harm to actual living people, so that doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/62 "2014-08-22T16:02:38Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > It’s important to let religious folks where their garb, because they do it to try to prevent harm to their souls. People fighting against religion are only try to prevent harm to actual living people, so that doesn’t count. It’s important to “let” religious folks wear their garb, because preventing people from wearing what they want is a damn obnoxious imposition and, I contend, requires some actual justification. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/63 "2014-08-22T16:05:10Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > It’s important to “let” religious folks wear their garb, because preventing people from wearing what they want is a damn obnoxious imposition and, I contend, requires some actual justification. I actually agree with that. Whether or not the need is there for IDs with regards to hats is certainly debatable. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/64 "2014-08-22T16:11:23Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > I actually agree with that. Whether or not the need is there for IDs with regards to hats is certainly debatable. When it comes to religious headgear, there really is no debate. No-one is arguing that people wearing veils should be allowed. There really are only two kinds of religious headgear that are commonly encountered: (1) Kippahs for Jews; and (2) Turbans for Sikhs. Neither interfere in any way with identification. The kippah is typically worn on the back-top of the head, an is really a small cap, hardly capable of obsuring the features. The turban, for a Sikh, is a cloth covering used to cover up a Sikh’s long hair. It is worn all the time in public, so it would be a failure in the ID process _not_ to have it in the photo. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/65 "2014-08-22T16:13:07Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > When it comes to religious headgear, there really is no debate. No-one is arguing that people wearing veils should be allowed. > > There really are only two kinds of religious headgear that are commonly encountered: > > (1) Kippahs for Jews; and > > (2) Turbans for Sikhs. > > Neither interfere in any way with identification. The kippah is typically worn on the back-top of the head, an is really a small cap, hardly capable of obsuring the features. The turban, for a Sikh, is a cloth covering used to cover up a Sikh’s long hair. It is worn all the time in public, so it would be a failure in the ID process _not_ to have it in the photo. You forgot colanders. But seriously, if someone wears a baseball cap all of the time, should that be in the ID? Or should hats that don’t interfere with the ID/picture just not be regulated? Or are these OK specifically because of the fact that they are religious in nature? eta: I’m asking for your opinion, I’m familiar with the law. ---
**Author:** ![PorchePine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@PorchePine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PorchePine)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/66 "2014-08-22T16:17:15Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > When it comes to religious headgear, there really is no debate. No-one is arguing that people wearing veils should be allowed. > > . Actually, people are arguing for that. > **[ACLU Asks Florida Court to Reinstate Suspended Driver's License of Muslim...](https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-asks-florida-court-reinstate-suspended-drivers-license-muslim-woman-forced)** > > ... ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/67 "2014-08-22T16:19:25Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > You forgot colanders. > > But seriously, if someone wears a baseball cap all of the time, should that be in the ID? Or should hats that don’t interfere with the picture just not be regulated? Or are these OK specifically because of the fact that they are relgious in nature? > > eta: I’m asking for your opinion, I’m familiar with the law. I think that IF someone was able to demonstrate that they in fact wore a hat all the time for whatever reason, and did not wish to remove it, and it did not obscure their features, the should be allowed to wear it in an ID photo. All religions do, to my mind, is provide a shorthand for all that. How otherwise is one to demonstrate that they, in fact, wear a hat all the time? “I’m a Sikh” is easy to prove. “I always wear a certain hat, and no other” is difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/68 "2014-08-22T16:22:11Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > And besides how can you take the guy from BC serious…he’s an ordained minister and he’s rocking a **plastic** colander? Every true Pastafarian knows that all metal is the way to go. This is how religious wars get started. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/69 "2014-08-22T16:23:42Z")
> [@PorchePine](#): > > Actually, people are arguing for that. > > [ACLU Asks Florida Court to Reinstate Suspended Driver's License of Muslim Woman Forced to Remove Her Face Veil | American Civil Liberties Union](https://www.aclu.org/religion-belief/aclu-asks-florida-court-reinstate-suspended-drivers-license-muslim-woman-forced-remo) No-one here in this thread is arguing for that. No doubt, in the wide world out there, someone can be found who will argue any damn point one could name. For the record, I think the state has a compelling reason to demand photo ID that actually shows the face, and that this Florida woman’s complaint ought to fail. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/70 "2014-08-22T16:24:47Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I think that IF someone was able to demonstrate that they in fact wore a hat all the time for whatever reason, and did not wish to remove it, and it did not obscure their features, the should be allowed to wear it in an ID photo. > > All religions do, to my mind, is provide a shorthand for all that. How otherwise is one to demonstrate that they, in fact, wear a hat all the time? “I’m a Sikh” is easy to prove. “I always wear a certain hat, and no other” is difficult. OK, fair enough. So if someone stated that their religion didn’t require them to wear a certain type of hat all (or most) of the time, but they wanted to wear it for the ID photo in order to represent the fact that their religion is part of their identity, you would not permit them to wear it in the photo? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/71 "2014-08-22T16:26:41Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > OK, fair enough. So if someone stated that their religion didn’t require them to wear a certain type of hat all (or most) of the time, but they wanted to wear it for the ID photo in order to represent the fact that their religion is part of their identity, you would not permit them to wear it in the photo? No, unless “the rules” for such photos were indifferent to hats in general. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/72 "2014-08-22T16:26:48Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Seemed a reasonable explaination for the scorn expressed here. There is no scorn other than what you chose to read into it. What is scornful about saying people feel a cultural affiliation to a particular item of clothing? That was one of the comments I also included > [@](#): > > I have no problem with people wanting to feel “different to you” or “special”. If you don’t either, why mention it (in “scare quotes” no less)? The “special” comment was mentioned by another poster, the “different to you” is an imagined rationale from a religious item wearer. You don’t get to decide what are scare quotes thank you very much. > [@](#): > > Now, if you guy makes a case that he (for whatever reason) always wears his baseball hat, or his coleander, he’s in the same boat as your Sikh. As it is, he isn’t, and really all he wants to do is _mock_. Which he’s perfectly allowed to do, and we are perfectly allowed to find him a jerk for doing it. Sure, but if he clarifies that he isn’t targeting any specific religion but the special privilege arbitrarily given to religions in general I’d say that makes it not a jerkish act, but a relevant and thoughtful statement. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/73 "2014-08-22T16:32:54Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > No, unless “the rules” for such photos were indifferent to hats in general. OK, that’s a pretty consistent POV. I can respect that. I think it’s overly restrictive on the right to dfreedom of religion, but that’s kind of beside the point here. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/74 "2014-08-22T18:44:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Some folks - myself among them - have no belief in any gods, but understand that others do, or have some emotional attachment to some sort of ethnic garb, and that this is their business and that their business is worthy of respect, even though we DON’T believe in any part of it or share in their ethnicity. Would you include the confederate flag as a symbol of ethnic identity? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/75 "2014-08-22T18:58:57Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > Would you include the confederate flag as a symbol of ethnic identity? As far as I know, there is no ethnic group that signals its identity by the mandatory wearing of a confederate flag on the head. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/76 "2014-08-22T18:59:39Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > Would you include the confederate flag as a symbol of ethnic identity? About as much as I would a Klingon costume. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/77 "2014-08-22T19:29:12Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > About as much as I would a Klingon costume. If I ever see a Klingon waving the confederate flag, I’m getting the hell out of Dodge. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526/78 "2014-08-22T21:35:49Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Now, I have nothing against some doofus wearing his coleander in his driver’s licence ID - but if he’s going to do that, I do rather think he should wear it all the time, thus making it a truly similar class to a Sikh’s turban. If he looks like a doofus in his ID he ought to look like one in ordinary life, so he can be properly identified. Now we’re getting somewhere. You agree, at least in principle, that the rules should be applied consistently regardless of actual religious affiliation. So how do you enforce this? For that matter, how do you know that turban guy really wears his Sikh turban all the time? Should you believe him over, say, Joe Truckdriver that claims to wear his sick Ford hat everywhere? Are you going to cite people if they have some headgear exemption and are found to not be wearing it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastafarian-fights-to-wear-colander-in-bc-drivers-licence-photo/695526.md?page=3)