It’s important to let religious folks where their garb, because they do it to try to prevent harm to their souls. People fighting against religion are only try to prevent harm to actual living people, so that doesn’t count.
It’s important to “let” religious folks wear their garb, because preventing people from wearing what they want is a damn obnoxious imposition and, I contend, requires some actual justification.
I actually agree with that. Whether or not the need is there for IDs with regards to hats is certainly debatable.
When it comes to religious headgear, there really is no debate. No-one is arguing that people wearing veils should be allowed.
There really are only two kinds of religious headgear that are commonly encountered:
(1) Kippahs for Jews; and
(2) Turbans for Sikhs.
Neither interfere in any way with identification. The kippah is typically worn on the back-top of the head, an is really a small cap, hardly capable of obsuring the features. The turban, for a Sikh, is a cloth covering used to cover up a Sikh’s long hair. It is worn all the time in public, so it would be a failure in the ID process not to have it in the photo.
You forgot colanders.
But seriously, if someone wears a baseball cap all of the time, should that be in the ID? Or should hats that don’t interfere with the ID/picture just not be regulated? Or are these OK specifically because of the fact that they are religious in nature?
eta: I’m asking for your opinion, I’m familiar with the law.
Actually, people are arguing for that.
I think that IF someone was able to demonstrate that they in fact wore a hat all the time for whatever reason, and did not wish to remove it, and it did not obscure their features, the should be allowed to wear it in an ID photo.
All religions do, to my mind, is provide a shorthand for all that. How otherwise is one to demonstrate that they, in fact, wear a hat all the time? “I’m a Sikh” is easy to prove. “I always wear a certain hat, and no other” is difficult.
This is how religious wars get started.
Regards,
Shodan
No-one here in this thread is arguing for that. No doubt, in the wide world out there, someone can be found who will argue any damn point one could name.
For the record, I think the state has a compelling reason to demand photo ID that actually shows the face, and that this Florida woman’s complaint ought to fail.
OK, fair enough. So if someone stated that their religion didn’t require them to wear a certain type of hat all (or most) of the time, but they wanted to wear it for the ID photo in order to represent the fact that their religion is part of their identity, you would not permit them to wear it in the photo?
No, unless “the rules” for such photos were indifferent to hats in general.
There is no scorn other than what you chose to read into it. What is scornful about saying people feel a cultural affiliation to a particular item of clothing? That was one of the comments I also included
The “special” comment was mentioned by another poster, the “different to you” is an imagined rationale from a religious item wearer. You don’t get to decide what are scare quotes thank you very much.
Sure, but if he clarifies that he isn’t targeting any specific religion but the special privilege arbitrarily given to religions in general I’d say that makes it not a jerkish act, but a relevant and thoughtful statement.
OK, that’s a pretty consistent POV. I can respect that. I think it’s overly restrictive on the right to dfreedom of religion, but that’s kind of beside the point here.
Would you include the confederate flag as a symbol of ethnic identity?
As far as I know, there is no ethnic group that signals its identity by the mandatory wearing of a confederate flag on the head.
About as much as I would a Klingon costume.
If I ever see a Klingon waving the confederate flag, I’m getting the hell out of Dodge.
Now we’re getting somewhere. You agree, at least in principle, that the rules should be applied consistently regardless of actual religious affiliation. So how do you enforce this? For that matter, how do you know that turban guy really wears his Sikh turban all the time? Should you believe him over, say, Joe Truckdriver that claims to wear his sick Ford hat everywhere? Are you going to cite people if they have some headgear exemption and are found to not be wearing it?