# Pastor Jones & His Moral Responsibility for Death (Or: The Cleansing Effect of the Intermediary) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899 "2011-04-02T01:30:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/301 "2011-04-23T20:06:14Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > I’m disappointed that Dearborn chose to pursue this. I think they’ve now potentially blown it up into a referendum on free speech rights instead of letting the little jackass have his to-do yesterday and go the hell home. This kind of attention is exactly what he wanted, why give it to him? And while I’m not against the idea of insisting that people who want to incite a riot pay for the security that’s going to be needed to keep things in check, I was opposed to “free speech zones” when Bush did it, and I’m opposed to it on principle now. > > Plus, it was 40 degrees and raining yesterday. You wanna hold a protest? Go ahead. Knock yourself out. The locals are smart enough to stay inside. > > And reading about how he accidentally shot a hole in his own car just makes me snicker every time I think about it. I am surprised he wasn’t charged with reckless discharge of a firearm or anything. How is this different then the 10 million other demonstrating jackasses around the country? ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/302 "2011-04-23T20:14:03Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How is this different then the 10 million other demonstrating jackasses around the country? Jones sets the standard for the utmost in unconscionable jackassery. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/303 "2011-04-23T20:48:39Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Jones sets the standard for the utmost in unconscionable jackassery. How so? ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/304 "2011-04-23T21:03:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How so? Maybe we should start a poll and see who does or does not agree with my statement, instead of starting anew the pissing contest of more wasted weasel words? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/305 "2011-04-23T21:06:25Z")
The book he burned was paper like any other book. If it were holy it would not have burned or he would have been hit by a lightening bolt. But the act was a deliberate attempt to stir the Muslims into doing some bad response so he could point out how violent they are. It failed. so Jones decided to go to the largest and most beautiful mosque in America, a place with the most Arabs outside the middle east ,to get in their face. He was deliberately trying to stir a reaction. The courts said he was creating a danger and potential serious trouble and forbid him to do it. Good. The police have better things to do. The people have better things to do. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/306 "2011-04-23T21:12:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How is this different then the 10 million other demonstrating jackasses around the country? I’m not sure of your point. Did I say it was different? ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/307 "2011-04-23T21:23:46Z")
Jones Phelps and his Westboro gang and all their ilk whether overtly stirring the pot or silently supporting them in their twisted minds are all a scourge on society. The only difference between any of them is in degree as to how far they are willing to go to purvey their hatred. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/308 "2011-04-23T22:39:42Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The book he burned was paper like any other book. If it were holy it would not have burned or he would have been hit by a lightening bolt. But the act was a deliberate attempt to stir the Muslims into doing some bad response so he could point out how violent they are. It failed. so Jones decided to go to the largest and most beautiful mosque in America, a place with the most Arabs outside the middle east ,to get in their face. He was deliberately trying to stir a reaction. > The courts said he was creating a danger and potential serious trouble and forbid him to do it. Good. The police have better things to do. The people have better things to do. So people can’t protest now in front of the white house because it’s a beautiful structure or it annoys too many people? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/309 "2011-04-23T22:46:04Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Jones Phelps and his Westboro gang and all their ilk whether overtly stirring the pot or silently supporting them in their twisted minds are all a scourge on society. The only difference between any of them is in degree as to how far they are willing to go to purvey their hatred. How is what they do any different than someone writing a book or drawing a cartoon? ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/310 "2011-04-23T22:48:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How is what they do any different than someone writing a book or drawing a cartoon? Who is “they?” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/311 "2011-04-23T23:00:33Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > I’m not sure of your point. Did I say it was different? There are millions of jackasses making their little protests all the time. We just saw a handful of them pay thousands of dollars for the privilege of punking the President of the United States at a fund raiser. I could easily stomp Fred Phelps dead if he showed up at a family funeral of mine, why is he or the protesters at the presidential fund raiser not thrown in jail? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/312 "2011-04-23T23:02:20Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Who is “they?” “They” would be Pastor Jones and his congregation. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/313 "2011-04-23T23:03:14Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > After all, being stupid is not strictly speaking “illegal.” I might add, neither is being a “jackass.” ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/314 "2011-04-23T23:06:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How is what they do any different than someone writing a book or drawing a cartoon? I view a demonstration as very different than a book or a cartoon under these circumstances. Apparently a judge in Detroit agrees with me. Allow the ultimate in jackassery, and you validate the jackass. Go for it Magiver! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/315 "2011-04-23T23:33:21Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > I view a demonstration as very different than a book or a cartoon under these circumstances. How so? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/316 "2011-04-23T23:56:40Z")
The difference? At the low end, needless embuggerance factor (e.g. clogging up public thoroughfares and preventing people from attending their places of worship). At the high end, inciting a riot, resulting in property damage, personal injury, and death. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/317 "2011-04-24T00:03:38Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > The difference? At the low end, needless embuggerance factor (e.g. clogging up public thoroughfares and preventing people from attending their places of worship). At the high end, inciting a riot, resulting in property damage, personal injury, and death. please be aware I’m devil advocating this for a reason. So if I go ape shit over everything that pisses me off can I get a zone of no protest surrounding everything that I associate myself with? I’d like to codify Fred Phelps out of my line of sight. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/318 "2011-04-24T00:28:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So if I go ape shit over everything that pisses me off can I get a zone of no protest surrounding everything that I associate myself with? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/319 "2011-04-24T00:33:45Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Nope. So we’re left with a guy standing on a sidewalk in front of a Mosque. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899/320 "2011-04-24T00:40:20Z")
Nope. An armed guy who was trying to gather a lot of people in front of a mosque. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pastor-jones-his-moral-responsibility-for-death-or-the-cleansing-effect-of-the-intermediary/576899.md?page=17)