# Pat Buchanan, Again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 11, 2009, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656 "2009-09-11T06:33:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/22 "2009-09-11T17:35:23Z")
Who said Pat’s speeches sound better in the original German? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/23 "2009-09-11T17:37:07Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > But, being the fucking asshole he is, he takes yet another opportunity to say that the problem is that we are losing our European heritage. It’s the fags and the brown people that are tearing America apart. Where’s he get the idea that “fags” aren’t part of our European heritage? Homosexuality played a significant role in classical Western culture. > [@Icerigger](#): > > Who said Pat’s speeches sound better in the original German? The late Molly Ivins. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/24 "2009-09-11T19:29:50Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Where’s he get the idea that “fags” aren’t part of our European heritage? Homosexuality played a significant role in classical Western culture. You mean, like, Oscar Wilde and the entire Roman army? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/25 "2009-09-11T20:30:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > the entire Roman army? Whoosh? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/26 "2009-09-11T20:38:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You mean, like, **Oscar Wilde and the entire Roman army**? Coincidentally, that’s my favourite of the Oscare Wilde Mysteries. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/27 "2009-09-11T21:41:18Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Where’s he get the idea that “fags” aren’t part of our European heritage? Homosexuality played a significant role in classical Western culture. My wife is a medieval music historian and a few years ago one of her colleagues uncovered a large amount of evidence that European polyphonic music was actually invented by a particular small group of queer French monks.\* Polyphony is the interweaving multiple melodic lines, as opposed to the monophonic music of chant or troubadour song. It’s an essential part of the classical music tradition. When my wife’s friend gave his big paper at a conference it had the normal, boring sort of academic title. But he joked with my wife beforehand that he had toyed with the idea of getting up in front of the audience and announcing that he’d changed the name of his paper to “Buttfucking and Medieval Song”. - How did he know they were queer you might ask? Because the lyrics of these early polyphonic songs were all _filthy_. They all had lines like “I wear my love’s tight rosy ring upon my eager finger … .” ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/28 "2009-09-11T21:51:32Z")
New TV show! _Queer Monks for Europunks_ ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/29 "2009-09-11T21:54:37Z")
So, DanBlather, you read a headline of a story by Pat Buchanon – “Is America coming apart?” – and you expected his answer to be ‘no’? Why that’s just crazy talk. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/30 "2009-09-11T22:00:48Z")
I’m going to have to give credit here. I was with him. It was well written, and it totally made sense, identifying an important issue. I dare anyone to find fault with him… until: “For what is a nation if not a people of a common ancestry, faith, culture and language, who worship the same God, revere the same heroes, cherish the same history, celebrate the same holidays and share the same music, poetry, art and literature?” Say what? I didn’t know we were built upon homogeneity. When were we ever one people in this sense. I will have to admit that it irks me when they removed the Stonewall Jackson National Holiday and replaced it with MLK day. All those old Stonewall Jackson Day traditions were just discarded. Seriously, first off, it was Stonewall Jackson’s mapmaker who deserves the credit for SJs prowess. Second off, if there was ever a modern figure that deserves a holiday, It’s MLK. The man believed in equality and advocated passive resistance to achieve his goals. Had he lived I believe we would be in a much better country. If one is to admire Lee or Stonewall it should be as faithful leaders and men of principle. In this sense, I have no problem pushing Lee and Stonewall aside, and doubtless Lee would take a bow and step aside with a smile on his face. Chris Columbus? Yeah he’s got a point there. He discovered the Continent. I don’t blame him for what followed, nor do I think he was anything but a man of his times. I think it’s right to celebrate his spirit of adventure and grand achievement and I think anybody that’s got a problem with Columbus needs to get a life. But no, his main thesis of only the unity of the homogeneity of judeo Christian values can save us from this death spiral is false. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/31 "2009-09-11T22:11:47Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > True. In fact, I believe he’s of almost all German descent on his mother’s side. > > Pat Buchanan’s Irish background is grossly overstated. For one thing, “Buchanan” is a _Scotch_-Irish _Protestant_ name. So, he’s no true Scotsman? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/32 "2009-09-12T01:24:42Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I’m going to have to give credit here. I was with him. It was well written, and it totally made sense, identifying an important issue. I dare anyone to find fault with him… until: > > “For what is a nation if not a people of a common ancestry, faith, culture and language, who worship the same God, revere the same heroes, cherish the same history, celebrate the same holidays and share the same music, poetry, art and literature?” > > Say what? I didn’t know we were built upon homogeneity. When were we ever one people in this sense. That’s like saying, “I was with Einstein with that ‘E=’ stuff, but when he got to the ‘mc squared’ part…” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/33 "2009-09-12T02:18:26Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Chris Columbus? Yeah he’s got a point there. He discovered the Continent. I don’t blame him for what followed, nor do I think he was anything but a man of his times. I think it’s right to celebrate his spirit of adventure and grand achievement and I think anybody that’s got a problem with Columbus needs to get a life. They already have a life, thank you very much. > **[Jack Weatherford, Examining the reputation of Christopher Columbus](http://www.hartford-hwp.com/Taino/docs/columbus.html)** > > Jack Weatherford, Examining the reputation of Christopher Columbus > [@](#): > > After he failed to contact the emperor of China, the traders of India or the merchants of Japan, Columbus decided to pay for his voyage in the one important commodity he had found in ample supply - human lives. He seized 1,200 Taino Indians from the island of Hispaniola, crammed as many onto his ships as would fit and sent them to Spain, where they were paraded naked through the streets of Seville and sold as slaves in 1495. Columbus tore children from their parents, husbands from wives. On board Columbus’ slave ships, hundreds died; the sailors tossed the Indian bodies into the Atlantic. > > Because Columbus captured more Indian slaves than he could transport to Spain in his small ships, he put them to work in mines and plantations which he, his family and followers created throughout the Caribbean. His marauding band hunted Indians for sport and profit - beating, raping, torturing, killing, and then using the Indian bodies as food for their hunting dogs. Within four years of Columbus’ arrival on Hispaniola, his men had killed or exported one-third of the original Indian population of 300,000. Within another 50 years, the Taino people had been made extinct [editor’s note: the old assumption that the Taino became extinct is now open to serious question] - the first casualties of the holocaust of American Indians. The plantation owners then turned to the American mainland and to Africa for new slaves to follow the tragic path of the Taino. > > This was the great cultural encounter initiated by Christopher Columbus. This is the event we celebrate each year on Columbus Day. The United States honors only two men with federal holidays bearing their names. In January we commemorate the birth of Martin Luther King, Jr., who struggled to lift the blinders of racial prejudice and to cut the remaining bonds of slavery in America. In October, we honor Christopher Columbus, who opened the Atlantic slave trade and launched one of the greatest waves of genocide known in history. > > _Jack Weatherford is an anthropologist at Macalaster College in St. Paul, Minn. His most recent book is “Indian Givers.” He wrote this article for the Baltimore Evening Sun._ ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/34 "2009-09-12T03:16:32Z")
The irony is that Mr. Pat Buchanan had he lived a century and a half earlier would be treated very similar to what he thinks of Latino and Asian immigrants. Actually I can’t see what he has against Latinos and Asians, both are socially conservative and the latter at least is upstanding and hard-working. If it weren’t for the Latinos, Pat, Prop 8 would have gone down! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/35 "2009-09-13T01:48:17Z")
Asian-Americans aren’t particularly socially conservative as a group. California has an unusually high proportion of ex-refugees, who are more socially conservative than ‘normal’ immigrants because (like Cubans) they’re staunch anticommunists. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/36 "2009-09-13T02:22:20Z")
GIGO, hunting human beings for sport is pretty reasonable. Why, Columbus probably once said “I believe this is a good thing”. And what’re you, stupid? Good things are reasonable. And look how his discovery mobilized an entire half of a continent to murder and rampage and dominate not one but many parts of _three_ other continents? That’s obviously a great impact to have had. So Columbus was clearly pretty reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/37 "2009-09-13T02:58:22Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > GIGO, hunting human beings for sport is pretty reasonable. Why, Columbus probably once said “I believe this is a good thing”. And what’re you, stupid? Good things are reasonable. And look how his discovery mobilized an entire half of a continent to murder and rampage and dominate not one but many parts of _three_ other continents? That’s obviously a great impact to have had. So Columbus was clearly pretty reasonable. 🙂 Of course it was reasonable. Reasonable for monsters like [Charybdis and Scylla](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scylla_and_Charybdis), that is. ---
**Author:** ![kitemaker\_chuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a88e4f/32.png) [@kitemaker\_chuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitemaker_chuck)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/38 "2009-09-13T05:59:05Z")
The only way Pat Buchanan will be really happy is to have himself cloned (with many millions and millions of copies), until ONLY Pat Buchanans (plural) inhabit the USA. Then he’d be sure that the nation would share a common ancestry, faith, culture, language, etc., etc. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/39 "2009-09-13T16:47:14Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > So Columbus was clearly pretty reasonable. What, not _perfectly reasonable_? What’re you, a miscegenationist? Commie. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/40 "2009-09-13T18:38:58Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I’m going to have to give credit here. I was with him. It was well written, and it totally made sense, identifying an important issue. I dare anyone to find fault with him… until: > > “For what is a nation if not a people of a common ancestry, faith, culture and language, who worship the same God, revere the same heroes, cherish the same history, celebrate the same holidays and share the same music, poetry, art and literature?” I’m definitely picturing Buchanan as Joyce’s Citizen. > [@Ulysses by James Joyce](#): > > –But do you know what a nation means? says John Wyse. > –Yes, says Bloom. > –What is it? says John Wyse. > –A nation? says Bloom. A nation is the same people living in the same place. > –By God, then, says Ned, laughing, if that’s so I’m a nation for I’m living in the same place for the past five years. > –Or also living in different places. > –That covers my case, says Joe. > –What is your nation if I may ask? says the citizen. > –Ireland, says Bloom. I was born here. Ireland. > The citizen said nothing only cleared the spit out of his gullet and, gob, he spat a Red bank oyster out of him right in the corner. ---
**Author:** ![3trew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/13edae/32.png) [@3trew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3trew)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656/41 "2009-09-14T04:21:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Chris Columbus? Yeah he’s got a point there. He discovered the Continent. I don’t blame him for what followed, nor do I think he was anything but a man of his times. I think it’s right to celebrate his spirit of adventure and grand achievement and I think anybody that’s got a problem with Columbus needs to get a life. > [@](#): > > After he failed to contact the emperor of China, the traders of India or the merchants of Japan, Columbus decided to pay for his voyage in the one important commodity he had found in ample supply - human lives. He seized 1,200 Taino Indians from the island of Hispaniola, crammed as many onto his ships as would fit and sent them to Spain, where they were paraded naked through the streets of Seville and sold as slaves in 1495. Columbus tore children from their parents, husbands from wives. On board Columbus’ slave ships, hundreds died; the sailors tossed the Indian bodies into the Atlantic. > > Because Columbus captured more Indian slaves than he could transport to Spain in his small ships, he put them to work in mines and plantations which he, his family and followers created throughout the Caribbean. His marauding band hunted Indians for sport and profit - beating, raping, torturing, killing, and then using the Indian bodies as food for their hunting dogs. Within four years of Columbus’ arrival on Hispaniola, his men had killed or exported one-third of the original Indian population of 300,000. Well, sure, it sounds bad when you say it like that, but what about that spirit of adventure? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan-again/509656.md?page=3)