# Pat Buchanan **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 7, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan/480169 "2009-01-07T00:58:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan/480169/101 "2009-01-08T20:33:58Z")
Is it more evil to kill your own people than to barge in to another country and kill theirs? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan/480169/102 "2009-01-08T20:35:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Actually, most Jews in Germany were not citizens either, even before Hitler came to power (German citizenship being based on [_jus sanguinis,_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis) as it still is to some extent, and not being conferred on the large number of Jews in the eastern territories that the German Empire had acquired since unification). And, of course, most victims of the Holocaust had never been Germans in any sense. Ahh, I wasn’t aware of that. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan/480169/103 "2009-01-08T20:36:42Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Is it more evil to kill your own people than to barge in to another country and kill theirs? No, it’s just a different kind of thing. I don’t see such a revolutionary murderous regime arising in America. Maybe it already has in the past, but I don’t see it repeating. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan/480169/104 "2009-01-08T21:29:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Actually, most Jews in Germany were not citizens either, even before Hitler came to power Prussian Jews acquired citizenship in 1812, and upon unification, the Jews of all of Germany were emancipated and granted citizenship. The Weimar Republic passed an even more expansive citizenship law, and by the time Hitler came along, most German Jews had citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan/480169/105 "2009-01-08T21:41:08Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Prussian Jews acquired citizenship in 1812, and upon unification, the Jews of all of Germany were emancipated and granted citizenship. The Weimar Republic passed an even more expansive citizenship law, and by the time Hitler came along, most German Jews had citizenship. Memory must have failed me. Cite for any of that? I know Hitler deprived all Jews in the Reich of citizenship as almost the first step of stripping them of their rights and property and getting rid of them. And I know the _jus sanguinis_ law, a holdover from the Empire, is what has barred most Turkish “guest workers” from obtaining German citizenship even if they were born in Germany and their families have been there two or three generations. (Conversely, it’s the same law that allowed many ethnically German refugees from lands east of Germany to gain German citizenship after WWII and, in some cases, after the Cold War.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan/480169/106 "2009-01-08T21:43:06Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > The presumption of innocence is a legal presumption that everyone knows about. “Raising the point” in every case would be pointless and as silly as reporting “the sun rose today.” It would in no way divert the public from reaching conclusions. Most people instinctively tend to assume the worst when accusations are lain. The solution is to put the burden on those making the accusations (government officials, that is), not to make them unless it’s justified (as in the Jewel and Lee cases). “The public may reason according to its wits, but this court must reason according to the law.” – Sir Thomas More in _A Man for All Seasons,_ by Robert Bolt [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-buchanan/480169.md?page=5)