# Pat, I'd like to buy a shift key ... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 11, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230 "2009-11-11T21:14:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/41 "2009-11-12T17:21:29Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > proper punctuation and capitalization makes it easier to understand, and therefore more clear There shouldn’t be a comma there. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/42 "2009-11-12T17:48:43Z")
And don’t say “more clear”, say “clearer”. It’s the go-go nineties and seconds count! ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/43 "2009-11-12T17:54:21Z")
This panda walks into a bar… ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/44 "2009-11-12T18:01:22Z")
even though i can t reach the shift key it doesn t mean that i don t have things to say there are some people who need to remember the old saying about judging books by their covers just because a book has a broken cover doesn t meant that there isn t shakespeare inside it reminds me of the spider in the office a fly came in and laughed and said what an ugly web that spider had it was all torn and it wasn t round at all it wasn t at all like those nice round webs you see in books about spiders later the spider told me the fly was delicious -archy ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/45 "2009-11-12T18:19:02Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > This panda walks into a bar… … and says, “Ouch! Who put this effing bar here?” ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/46 "2009-11-12T18:20:58Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > There shouldn’t be a comma there. You’re wrong about that. [QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] And don’t say “more clear”, say “clearer”. It’s the go-go nineties and seconds count! [/QUOTE] Screw the nineties. The nineties crushed my boyish heart like a polar bear crushes a corn cob pipe. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/47 "2009-11-12T18:48:10Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > Excuse me while I sacrifice a cock to **Gaudere** Ouch! > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Don’t bring his ED into this, he’s got enough problems. Given the above, its easy to see why! ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/48 "2009-11-12T19:13:25Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > You’re wrong about that. Nope, I’m not. You didn’t have another subject and predicate in “and therefore more clear,” and it wasn’t part of a list, so it doesn’t get a comma before it. The style guide I happen to have on hand is \*The Gregg Reference Manual \*(ninth edition). Pagraph 125: > [@](#): > > Separating commas are often improperly used in sentences. In the following examples the diagonal marks indicate points at which single commas \*should not \*be used. [snip] > **f.** Do not separate \*two \*words or phrases that are joined by a coordinating conjunction. [snip] > We hope _that you will visit our store soon_/ and _that you will find the styles you like_. (Two noun clauses serving as objects of the verb _hope_.) So, in “proper punctuation and capitalization makes it easier to understand, and therefore more clear,” the objects of “makes” are “easier to understand” and “therefore more clear.” Feel free to post an example from a style guide that requires commas between two objects of a verb, though, if you can find one. Until then, I’m just going to bask in my superiority. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/49 "2009-11-12T19:37:20Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Feel free to post an example from a style guide that requires commas between two objects of a verb, though, if you can find one. Until then, I’m just going to bask in my superiority. I never said it was required. I said you were wrong to say that it shouldn’t be there. And you were. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/50 "2009-11-12T19:43:33Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I never said it was required. I said you were wrong to say that it shouldn’t be there. And you were. I posted a cite from a style guide that explicitly states that there shouldn’t be one. You, on the other hand, have continued to blow hot wind out of your ass. So, Mr. Uptight Prescriptivist, cite \*\*any \*\*style guide that even \*\*allows for \*\*a comma in the construction you used or concede the gaping hole in your glass house. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/51 "2009-11-12T19:49:08Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I posted a cite from a style guide that explicitly states that there shouldn’t be one. You, on the other hand, have continued to blow hot wind out of your ass. So, Mr. Uptight Prescriptivist, cite \*\*any \*\*style guide that even \*\*allows for \*\*a comma in the construction you used or concede the gaping hole in your glass house. Back the fuck up, all right? What we are having here is a conversation. It isn’t literature. It isn’t exposition. It isn’t journalism. And if I were speaking that sentence, I would pause there. Hence the comma. Now unless you can rein in your inflammatory language, or justify it somehow, I am done with you. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/52 "2009-11-12T19:52:59Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > What we are having here is a conversation. It isn’t literature. It isn’t exposition. It isn’t journalism. And if I were speaking that sentence, I would pause there. Hence the comma. > > Now unless you can rein in your inflammatory language, or justify it somehow, I am done with you. _Ahem_. > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > To a lot of us, proper punctuation and capitalization makes it easier to understand, and therefore more clear. So that’s both who and why we fucking care. You were bitching about “proper punctuation” without using it. Oh, and I missed “who [snip] we fucking care.” That’s also a terrible construction. So! Here we are. House? Glass. Stone? Thrown. You? Wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/53 "2009-11-12T20:13:47Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > _Ahem_.You were bitching about “proper punctuation” without using it. Cite where I was bitching please? Find one of your precious resource materials that support a claim that what I said constitutes bitching. > [@](#): > > So! Here we are. House? Glass. Stone? Thrown. You? Wrong. You seem to be under the misapprehension that I claimed somewhere that I always use perfect punctuation. While I wait for you to support that allegation, I’ll point out to you that my claim was that proper capitalization and punctuation makes understanding easier for some people. If you think that’s wrong, have at it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/54 "2009-11-12T20:18:11Z")
Ladies and gentlemen, _Gaudere’s War_. ---
**Author:** ![dhkendall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9adbd/32.png) [@dhkendall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dhkendall)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/55 "2009-11-12T21:56:18Z")
See? _See?__This_ is why proper grammar/spelling/punctuation/capitalization is necessary! We’d avoid a needless war and thousands of casualties! (And yes, I know that my punctuation and sentence structure needs work. I can still rant about those much, much worse than I (doesn’t everyone have someone whose grammar etc. is worse than someone else’s?). It’s the pit, needed to rant.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/56 "2009-11-12T22:00:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Ladies and gentlemen, _Gaudere’s War_. A thread like this, it’s inevitable. I open it and I’m just waiting for Gaudere. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/57 "2009-11-12T22:47:32Z")
The language wars are the bloodiest wars of all. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/58 "2009-11-12T23:47:38Z")
Man, not even a chuckle? Tough room. ---
**Author:** ![koufax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@koufax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koufax)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/59 "2009-11-13T00:25:40Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > You seem to be under the misapprehension that I claimed somewhere that I always use perfect punctuation. While I wait for you to support that allegation, I’ll point out to you that my claim was that proper capitalization and punctuation makes understanding easier for some people. If you think that’s wrong, have at it. I don’t understand. Do you mean “make” understanding easier? you should work on your own writing style before criticizing others style You should work on your own writing style before criticizing others style. i typed that second sentence in case you couldn’t understand the first sentence I typed that second sentence in case you couldn’t understand the first sentence. i did it again I did it again. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/60 "2009-11-13T01:11:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Ladies and gentlemen, _Gaudere’s War_. _chuckle_ 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230.md?page=4)