# Pat, I'd like to buy a shift key ... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 11, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230 "2009-11-11T21:14:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![dhkendall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9adbd/32.png) [@dhkendall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dhkendall)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/61 "2009-11-13T01:13:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Man, not even a chuckle? Tough room. Ummm, this _is_ the Pit. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/62 "2009-11-13T02:11:44Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > So, in “proper punctuation and capitalization makes it easier to understand, and therefore more clear,” the objects of “makes” are “easier to understand” and “therefore more clear.” Feel free to post an example from a style guide that requires commas between two objects of a verb, though, if you can find one. Until then, I’m just going to bask in my superiority. According to my copy of _Style Manual for authors, editors, and printers (Sixth Edition)_, published by J. Wiley & Sons, (and which also happens to the official Manual of Style for the Commonwealth Government) doesn’t specifically mention how to deal with commas between two object of a verb, but does say: > [@Style Manual (Sixth Edition)](#): > > **Coordinate clauses** > > Coordinate clauses are equal in weight (and can thus be read as separate statements) but are linked by conjunctions such as _and, but, yet, or_ and _nor_. When the clauses are reasonably long and each has its own subject, a comma is generally used to separate them: > > _Australia has one of the world’s safest food-supply systems, yet the reported incidence of food-borne illness in this country has increased in recent years_ > > In contrast, commas are **often** [bolding mine] ommitted between two short coordinate clauses, whether they share the subject or not: > > \*The flight was rough and a number of passengers became ill > > We propose to present papers at international conferences and to have our findings published in journals\* To put it another way: It’s unlikely any editor in this country would ping someone for using a comma between the two objects of a verb. ---
**Author:** ![nikonikosuru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f8ce5/32.png) [@nikonikosuru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nikonikosuru)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/63 "2009-11-13T02:23:41Z")
I see this all the time. Where I work we have students come in and answer a question of the day on the white board. Other students are allowed to write comments on other people’s answers. One girl will always write in the worst way possible. For example, when the question was a long the lines of “If you have the choice, what kind of animal would you be and why” and somebody had replied that they would be a panda, her response was like “so yew wanna b black n white? that is so kewl!” I hate looking at writing like that. It’s like the visual equivalent of nails on a chalkboard to me. Is it like that with anyone else here or just me? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/64 "2009-11-13T02:55:50Z")
> [@Shot From Guns](#): > > You were bitching about “proper punctuation” without using it. […] So! Here we are. House? Glass. Stone? Thrown. You? Wrong. No. Making occasional mistakes in orthography, which happens to all of us from time to time, doesn’t mean that you’re not entitled to complain about other people’s not even **attempting** to use proper orthography. If the OP or **Contrapuntal** or anyone else Pitted another poster for inadvertently misplacing a comma, you’d be quite justified in getting up in their shit about excessive pedantry. But what **confission** is being Pitted for is his deliberate refusal to even **try** to use capital letters properly. **confission** evidently believes that the fact that omitting capital letters makes it easier for him to type is more important than the fact that it makes it harder for others to read. Screw that lazy, arrogant, inconsiderate mindset. ---
**Author:** ![Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d9b06d/32.png) [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichini_Sanshigo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/65 "2009-11-13T03:20:20Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > you should work on your own writing style before criticizing others style > > You should work on your own writing style before criticizing others style. > > i typed that second sentence in case you couldn’t understand the first sentence > > I typed that second sentence in case you couldn’t understand the first sentence. I still don’t understand… Oh, wait. You should work on your own writing style before criticizing others’ style. or You should work on you own writing style before criticizing the style of others. Aaaahhh, that’s better. Like a fresh piece of chewing gum, it is. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/66 "2009-11-13T05:45:46Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > No. Making occasional mistakes in orthography, which happens to all of us from time to time, doesn’t mean that you’re not entitled to complain about other people’s not even **attempting** to use proper orthography. > > If the OP or **Contrapuntal** or anyone else Pitted another poster for inadvertently misplacing a comma, you’d be quite justified in getting up in their shit about excessive pedantry. But what **confission** is being Pitted for is his deliberate refusal to even **try** to use capital letters properly. > > **confission** evidently believes that the fact that omitting capital letters makes it easier for him to type is more important than the fact that it makes it harder for others to read. Screw that lazy, arrogant, inconsiderate mindset. Precisely. Let’s not pretend that the occasional misplaced comma and the complete refusal to follow any grammatical rules are the same thing. One is an error in good faith, and one is a gigantic “fuck you” to the rules of civilized adult discourse. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/67 "2009-11-13T11:54:03Z")
omitting capital letters is a gigantic “fuck you”? lol, fuck you, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/68 "2009-11-13T12:06:59Z")
No, thanks. I have better taste. If you can’t bothered to use capital letters, I can’t be bothered to fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![dhkendall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9adbd/32.png) [@dhkendall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dhkendall)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/69 "2009-11-13T13:30:55Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > No, thanks. I have better taste. If you can’t bothered to use capital letters, I can’t be bothered to fuck you. Hmmm, well this explains why e. e. cummings and k. d. lang produce such morose work at times … ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/70 "2009-11-13T13:58:08Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > _chuckle_ > 🙂 My life is complete. ---
**Author:** ![koufax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@koufax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koufax)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/71 "2009-11-13T15:01:45Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Precisely. Let’s not pretend that the occasional misplaced comma and the complete refusal to follow any grammatical rules are the same thing. One is an error in good faith, and one is a gigantic “fuck you” to the rules of civilized adult discourse. you are a pretentious ass, barney fife ---
**Author:** ![koufax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@koufax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koufax)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/72 "2009-11-13T15:04:57Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > No, thanks. I have better taste. If you can’t bothered to use capital letters, I can’t be bothered to fuck you. and if you can’t BE bothered to go back and make sure you have not left out any words in your posts, i can’t BE bothered to read your nonsense ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/73 "2009-11-13T15:07:01Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > I hate it when people mix up there homophones and cant figure out wear to put apostrophe’s. Drives me up the freaking _wall_. Even when I’m the one doing it. _Especially_ when I’m the one doing it. That is one well dressed apostrophe, sir. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/74 "2009-11-13T16:13:59Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > you are a pretentious ass, barney fife If I must choose, I’d rather be perceived as a pretentious ass than an illiterate oaf. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/75 "2009-11-13T17:45:35Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Cite where I was bitching please? From M-W’s online dictionary: > [@](#): > > Main Entry: [sup]2[/sup]bitch > Function: verb > Date: 1823 > 3 : to complain of or about You’re welcome. > [@](#): > > You seem to be under the misapprehension that I claimed somewhere that I always use perfect punctuation. While I wait for you to support that allegation, I’ll point out to you that my claim was that proper capitalization and punctuation makes understanding easier for some people. If you think that’s wrong, have at it. You said that you care what rules people follow as to punctuation and grammar when posting because using “proper” punctuation and grammar makes it easier to understand. But then you, yourself, failed to live up to that standard. What you \*\*really \*\*want is for people to use the \*\*Contrapuntal \*\*standard of punctuation and grammar, i.e., write things in such a way that you can understand them but not necessarily adhering to any objective style guide. Which would be fine if that was what you said, but instead, you just failed horribly. Oh, so horribly. > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > To put it another way: It’s unlikely any editor in this country would ping someone for using a comma between the two objects of a verb. Your quote is talking about **coordinate clauses**. If you note, every single example has **multiple predicates** (because that’s what a clause **is** ; without a verb, it’s not a clause). The sentence in question involves \*\*direct objects \*\*(as phrases). Perhaps you’d like to get a better grasp of sentence structure before wading into the fray. Here’s a simple sentence that better illustrates the problem: _I ate an apple, and a pear._ You seriously think no editor would have a problem with that comma? > [@Kimstu](#): > > If the OP or **Contrapuntal** or anyone else Pitted another poster for inadvertently misplacing a comma, you’d be quite justified in getting up in their shit about excessive pedantry. I just enjoy poking people with sticks for yelling at others for doing what they themselves fail to do. > [@](#): > > **confission** evidently believes that the fact that omitting capital letters makes it easier for him to type is more important than the fact that it makes it harder for others to read. Screw that lazy, arrogant, inconsiderate mindset. I don’t disagree that it makes it harder to read. You know what? If you don’t like it, **don’t read it**. Take those lowercase posts as a cue to just skim right by. Just don’t come in here decrying youth today having no understanding of grammar, punctuation, etc. with a post that clearly displays your own ignorance. ETA: That last was a general “you” and not you, specifically, **Kimstu**. ---
**Author:** ![koufax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@koufax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koufax)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/76 "2009-11-13T17:47:54Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > If I must choose, I’d rather be perceived as a pretentious ass than an illiterate oaf. that is precisely why you are a pretentious ass, agassi image IS NOT everything ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/77 "2009-11-13T17:55:30Z")
Word. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/78 "2009-11-13T17:56:07Z")
Okay, well then I’d rather actually be a pretentious ass than an illiterate oaf. Image isn’t everything, but it’s not nothing. You don’t get to claim that you don’t care what other people think, and then whine when they don’t think well of you. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/79 "2009-11-13T18:04:37Z")
> [@dhkendall](#): > > Hmmm, well this explains why e. e. cummings and k. d. lang produce such morose work at times … Winner! Sorry, I mean: winner! ---
**Author:** ![koufax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@koufax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koufax)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/80 "2009-11-13T18:09:45Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Okay, well then I’d rather actually be a pretentious ass than an illiterate oaf. > > Image isn’t everything, but it’s not nothing. You don’t get to claim that you don’t care what other people think, and then whine when they don’t think well of you. it all depends on who the “other people” are because…to look good to an asshole, you have to BE an asshole [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230.md?page=5)