# Pat, I'd like to buy a shift key ... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 11, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230 "2009-11-11T21:14:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/81 "2009-11-13T18:21:06Z")
See that? You \*can \*find the shift key when it suits you. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/82 "2009-11-13T18:30:22Z")
Looks more like Caps Lock to me. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/83 "2009-11-13T18:34:42Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > I don’t understand. Do you mean “make” understanding easier? This thread is not all that long. Perhaps you could be bothered to read the fucking thing before commenting. Is that too much to ask? > [@](#): > > You should work on your own writing style before criticizing others style. See above. I never claimed to have a perfect writing style. And a _tu quoque_ argument is really quite weak. Try harder next time. [QUOTE=Shot From Guns] You’re welcome. [/QUOTE] It wasn’t a complaint. It was an observation offered as a response to a question. > [@](#): > > You said that you care what rules people follow as to punctuation and grammar when posting because using “proper” punctuation and grammar makes it easier to understand. But then you, yourself, failed to live up to that standard. See Fallacy, Logical, e.g.\* tu qoque.\* > [@](#): > > What you really want is for people to use the Contrapuntal standard of punctuation and grammar, i.e., write things in such a way that you can understand them but not necessarily adhering to any objective style guide. Which would be fine if that was what you said, but instead, you just failed horribly. Oh, so horribly. You have no idea what I want. Actually, you might have some idea. I asked you to prove that what I said with respect to some people preferring proper capitalization and punctuation to be wrong. I’m still waiting, so I suppose I want you to have a go at that. It seems fruitless, but no doubt you will be able to make something up. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/84 "2009-11-13T18:35:39Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > If I must choose, I’d rather be perceived as a pretentious ass than an illiterate oaf. In the interest of getting full data and not further derailing this thread, I’ve posed this question [post=539837]as a poll.[/post] ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/85 "2009-11-13T18:40:11Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I just enjoy poking people with sticks for yelling at others for doing what they themselves fail to do. That doesn’t mean what you think it means. I yell at others for killing people. I myself fail to kill people. You gonna poke me, too? [/snipe] ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/86 "2009-11-13T18:47:22Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > A thread like this, it’s inevitable. I open it and I’m just **waiting for Gaudere**. That was an Extentialist play, right? ---
**Author:** ![koufax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@koufax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koufax)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/87 "2009-11-13T18:52:30Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > See that? You \*can \*find the shift key when it suits you. and you seem to be able to read (and understand) my posts even if the first letter is not capitalized and there is no period at the end of the sentence THIS is A message BOARD it IS not A business LETTER or A doctoral THESIS pull the dangling participle [FONT=“Verdana”]out of your ass and open your narrow mind[/FONT] and please keep your snotty, ignorant remarks such as “I concur. Using the shift key is really not all that burdensome, and if you’re too lazy to do that, I’m not inclined to give much weight to your Deep Thoughts” TO YOURSELF that statement is so stupid it makes me WANT TO TYPE IN ALL CAPS ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/88 "2009-11-13T18:54:13Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > This thread is not all that long. Perhaps you could be bothered to read the fucking thing before commenting. Is that too much to ask? Perhaps you could be bothered to actually read the response in context, in which case you’d realize that it’s mocking you for saying \*makes \*where you should have said _make_ (subject/verb agreement). > [@](#): > > See above. I never claimed to have a perfect writing style. And a _tu quoque_ argument is really quite weak. Try harder next time. Oh, I’ll readily admit I’m making an _ad hom_. But that’s exactly my point: you’re a bunch of fucking hypocrites. You demand that people should adhere to an objective standard when writing but fail to adhere to that standard yourself. I find that amusing, so I point it out. Repeatedly. If you still don’t get it, I could draw you a diagram. The longer this goes on, though, the more likely the drawing is going to consist of the words “RETARD” and “YOU” with an arrow connecting them. > [@](#): > > It wasn’t a complaint. It was an observation offered as a response to a question. It was a very peevish, confrontational response, which strongly implied that failing to use “proper punctuation and capitalization” caused problems for you. (Note the use of the word “fucking.”) I choose to call that “bitching,” because it strikes me as a complaint, even if you didn’t literally say, word for word, “I hate it when people do that.” You may choose to disagree. > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > That doesn’t mean what you think it means. Correct. I should have said, “You yell at others for failing to do what you yourself fail to do.” But I’m not being a bitchy prescriptivist. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/89 "2009-11-13T18:59:25Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > That was an Extentialist play, right? Was I sleeping, while the others suffered? Am I… sleeping now? Tomorrow, when I wake, or think I do, what shall I say of today? That with Polycarp my friend, at this place, until the mods lock the thread, I waited for Gaudere? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/90 "2009-11-13T19:00:43Z")
> [@Shot From Guns](#): > > I don’t disagree that it makes it harder to read. You know what? If you don’t like it, don’t read it. Take those lowercase posts as a cue to just skim right by. Just don’t come in here decrying youth today having no understanding of grammar, punctuation, etc. with a post that clearly displays your own ignorance. Again, I think you’re missing the point about the actual purpose of this pitting. Neither **Contrapuntal** nor anybody else came in here decrying “youth today” for making a good-faith effort to use standard orthography but inadvertently committing a few errors now and then. If any of us did that, it **would** indeed be hypocritical, because all of us inadvertently commit a few errors in orthography now and then, and we certainly shouldn’t sneer at young people for screwing up in the same way we do. That doesn’t in any way disqualify us from expressing justified disdain for self-absorbed lazy little wankers who can’t even be bothered to **try** to use proper orthography in the first place. If you really don’t understand the difference between making an occasional error in composing Standard Written American English and flatly declaring that you’re not even going to **attempt** to follow the rules of Standard Written American English, then you need to read this whole thread more carefully. If you do understand that difference but are just trying to pretend that it doesn’t exist so you can keep gloating about a possibly misplaced comma and ignoring the real topic of the thread, then you’re simply dishonest and trollish. And by your own admission, option B looks more likely here: > [@Shot From Guns](#): > > I just enjoy poking people with sticks for yelling at others for doing what they themselves fail to do. I think you must have meant to say either “doing what they themselves do” or “failing to do what they themselves fail to do”. Because of course, there’s not actually anything logically or ethically inconsistent in yelling at others for doing something that you yourself **don’t** do. Assuming that you did mean to convey that you were stick-poking **Contrapuntal** and others here for inconsistency or hypocrisy, you completely missed your aim. Because what the OP and his sympathizers here are “yelling at others” for is their flat-out refusal to even try to follow the standards of written English, not for making occasional mistakes in written English. So there is nothing inconsistent or hypocritical about their complaints. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/91 "2009-11-13T19:03:37Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Perhaps you could be bothered to actually read the response in context, in which case you’d realize that it’s mocking you for saying \*makes \*where you should have said _make_ (subject/verb agreement). And if you could be arsed to read the thread you would realize that the question has been asked and answered. Instead, your juices are flowing so much at the prospect of poking folks with sticks that you go off half cocked. > [@](#): > > Oh, I’ll readily admit I’m making an _ad hom_. But that’s exactly my point: you’re a bunch of fucking hypocrites. You demand that people should adhere to an objective standard when writing but fail to adhere to that standard yourself. I find that amusing, so I point it out. Repeatedly. Well, there’s failure and there’s failure. At the very least, I am attempting to write clearly and simply as a show of respect to the reader. Any failure reflects my ability, not my intentions. This can be contrasted with those who insist that whatever makes it easier on them is the best way to go, and the reader be damned. And then there is total failure, as in your total failure to answer the question I have asked you twice now. > [@](#): > > If you still don’t get it, I could draw you a diagram. The longer this goes on, though, the more likely the drawing is going to consist of the words “RETARD” and “YOU” with an arrow connecting them. Pithy. > [@](#): > > It was a very peevish, confrontational response, which strongly implied that failing to use “proper punctuation and capitalization” caused problems for you. (Note the use of the word “fucking.”) I choose to call that “bitching,” because it strikes me as a complaint, even if you didn’t literally say, word for word, “I hate it when people do that.” You may choose to disagree. See above with respect to reading the thread. Go back to the post I was answering, and note the use of the word “fucking.” Got it? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/92 "2009-11-13T19:03:43Z")
> [@Shot From Guns](#): > > But I’m not being a bitchy prescriptivist. Well, you are, but only for stick-poking purposes, not because you really are a prescriptivist. What you really are is either stupid or a troll, or both. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/93 "2009-11-13T19:03:58Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > In the interest of getting full data and not further derailing this thread, I’ve posed this question [post=539837]as a poll.[/post] Are you sure that link is right? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/94 "2009-11-13T19:54:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Are you sure that link is right? Third time may be a charm. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/95 "2009-11-13T19:59:01Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Was I sleeping, while the others suffered? Am I… sleeping now? Tomorrow, when I wake, or think I do, what shall I say of today? That with Polycarp my friend, at this place, until the mods lock the thread, I waited for Gaudere? They post astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it’s night once more. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/96 "2009-11-13T20:03:05Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Third time may be a charm. [Here ya go.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=539837) ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/97 "2009-11-13T20:08:35Z")
> [@nikonikosuru](#): > > I see this all the time. Where I work we have students come in and answer a question of the day on the white board. Other students are allowed to write comments on other people’s answers. One girl will always write in the worst way possible. For example, when the question was a long the lines of “If you have the choice, what kind of animal would you be and why” and somebody had replied that they would be a panda, her response was like “so yew wanna b black n white? that is so kewl!” > I hate looking at writing like that. It’s like the visual equivalent of nails on a chalkboard to me. Is it like that with anyone else here or just me? It’s not just you. I’ve had to hide my niece and nephew and younger cousins on Facebook because I can’t deal with status updates that look like they let a cat wander along the keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/98 "2009-11-13T20:12:09Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Third time may be a charm. No, I meant your link from _this_ thread to that one, not the other way around. You screwed up both, somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/99 "2009-11-13T20:32:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No, I meant your link from _this_ thread to that one, not the other way around. You screwed up both, somehow. Somehow would be by repeatedly writing the BB code for post when I meant thread. However, by the time I had made it all better for this thread, **Contrapunctal** had kindly rescued me - thanks. I hide my head in shame. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/100 "2009-11-13T20:34:31Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > and please keep your snotty, ignorant remarks such as “I concur. Using the shift key is really not all that burdensome, and if you’re too lazy to do that, I’m not inclined to give much weight to your Deep Thoughts” TO YOURSELF > > that statement is so stupid it makes me WANT TO TYPE IN ALL CAPS Hmm, I suppose that remark could be considered snotty, especially to an illiterate oaf, but I disagree that it’s ignorant. Style \*is \*content. It conveys information. Yours conveys that you are an oaf. Perhaps reasonably literate, but with a chip on your shoulder so heavy it makes your knuckles drag. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230.md?page=6)