# Pat, I'd like to buy a shift key ... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 11, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230 "2009-11-11T21:14:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/141 "2009-11-16T01:40:09Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > this is a message board, barn…calm down Calm down? In the Pit? What for? To spare the sensibilities of self-absorbed arrogant assholes such as yourself who would prefer to impose their lazy disregard of standard orthography on other posters without incurring any criticism for it? Not a chance, crybaby. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/142 "2009-11-16T01:41:55Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > To spare the sensibilities of self-absorbed arrogant assholes such as yourself who would prefer to impose their lazy disregard of standard orthography on other posters without incurring any criticism for it? I know that it’s lots of fun to claim our sensibilities are extraordinarily delicate, but this is hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/143 "2009-11-16T01:47:35Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I know that it’s lots of fun to claim our sensibilities are extraordinarily delicate, but this is hilarious. Thanks, I’m glad you enjoyed it. ---
**Author:** ![koufax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@koufax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koufax)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/144 "2009-11-16T02:36:57Z")
“It’s kind of like the difference between ballet and jaywalking. The former is an expression of skill within the recognized rules of a complex genre. The latter is merely a self-centered unilateral decision to abandon recognized rules of traffic for one’s own convenience, even if it causes inconvenience to others.” instead of “former” and “latter” which only elitist new world order ivy league snobs use , why not just type “BALLET is an expression…” and “JAYWALKING is merely a self-centered…” talk about self-centered ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/145 "2009-11-16T03:11:58Z")
The youth of today are writing more than any generation preceding it - and they are doing so with great perception of their audience. The internet, text messaging, and blogs are all casual mediums and don’t require as many formalities. Older generations were taught to use very strict formalities in their writing because often the only time they would actually write a letter would be in a professional or buisness setting. “Casual” written correspondence didn’t even exist. Even a rare written letter to a friend was semi-formal. I think it is incredible that the youth have appropriated an entire medium and invented a new dialect - one built around efficiency, creativity, and comfort. In no way has it diminished the language nor is it a reflection of their general intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![koufax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@koufax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koufax)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/146 "2009-11-16T03:45:06Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Thanks, I’m glad you enjoyed it. i actually do enjoy reading what you write you ARE entertaining, and i am easily entertained ---
**Author:** ![Gustav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/147 "2009-11-16T08:58:01Z")
Look, not using caps is something you got from chatrooms, messengers and online video games. Mediums where you talk one sentence at a time, rather than in paragraphs, and it’s completely natural to omit caps. I do it too. Some people insist on using caps in chatrooms, and those people are almost universally pretentious idiots. But a message board isn’t like a chatroom. It’s not about formalities, or enforcing pointless archaic rules. No one will jump on you for ending a sentence in a preposition, or whatever. When you write posts that contain multiple sentences and even paragraphs, starting new sentences with a capital letter becomes important for readability. As **jtgoddess** ’s link somewhat inadvertantly points out, due to the way the brain reads text, it doesn’t even matter if the actual letters are scrambled. _As long as the structure remains intact_ your brain will translate for you on autopilot. But capital letters are part of the structure and without them your posts have to be read in “manual” mode. Kind of like deciphering (a very easy) code. So reading your posts takes the average person a lot more effort, and that’s just disrespectful to your audience. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/148 "2009-11-16T11:31:26Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > One is admitting laziness. The other is claiming actual cognitive impairment and a sort of mental rigidity that’s much more embarrassing than mere laziness. > > So yeah. Huh. Personally I’d be much less embarrassed by a disability than a character flaw. I’d also be much more willing to indulge it. For instance, if someone is arthritic and genuinely has a hard time typing, I’m good with that. But if someone is just too lazy to write properly, why on earth should I invest the effort to read their droppings? Generally, if you’re trying to convey an idea, you want to make it easy for your audience to understand you. If you can’t be bothered, then I’m going to assume that you’re talking just to hear yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/149 "2009-11-16T14:31:43Z")
> [@HFS7G](#): > > Older generations were taught to use very strict formalities in their writing because often the only time they would actually write a letter would be in a professional or buisness setting. “Casual” written correspondence didn’t even exist. Even a rare written letter to a friend was semi-formal. What do you mean, “casual” written correspondence didn’t even exist? Those of us who can remember all the way back to thirteen-cent first-class postage stamps definitely used “casual” writing in much of our communication, such as scribbling notes on the whiteboard on a friend’s door in a college dorm, leaving a note for a roommate, and many other contexts. > [@HFS7G](#): > > I think it is incredible that the youth have appropriated an entire medium and invented a new dialect - one built around efficiency, creativity, and comfort. In no way has it diminished the language nor is it a reflection of their general intelligence. Sure, the beef here is not about kids talking to each other in a mutually intelligible youth dialect that they enjoy and older people find difficult to understand. That’s hardly a new or “incredible” phenomenon; the only new thing about this generation’s version of it is that they’ve applied it primarily to **written** rather than spoken language, due to the dominance of electronic text media. The beef here is about kids (or anybody else) participating in a medium where the primary dialect is standard written English and declaring that they’re not even going to bother trying to follow its orthographic conventions. If people are going to insist on writing kidspeak in a forum where a more formal written dialect is the accepted norm, they shouldn’t whine about getting flamed for it. ---
**Author:** ![koufax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@koufax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koufax)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/150 "2009-11-16T14:42:20Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Huh. Personally I’d be much less embarrassed by a disability than a character flaw. I’d also be much more willing to indulge it. For instance, if someone is arthritic and genuinely has a hard time typing, I’m good with that. But if someone is just too lazy to write properly, why on earth should I invest the effort to read their droppings? > > Generally, if you’re trying to convey an idea, you want to make it easy for your audience to understand you. If you can’t be bothered, then I’m going to assume that you’re talking just to hear yourself. diane email me and i will wire 100 grand into your bank account thank god she will not invest the effort to read this dropping ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/151 "2009-11-16T15:22:30Z")
> [@Gustav](#): > > As **jtgoddess** ’s link somewhat inadvertantly points out, due to the way the brain reads text, it doesn’t even matter if the actual letters are scrambled. There was nothing inadvertent in that. Brains are flexible. Really really flexible. I don’t for one minute believe that anyone here has a problem reading text that lacks capitalization. A wall of text? Yeah, that can be a problem, especially on a screen–capitals or no capitals. Most of the rules being quoted have much less to do with comprehension and readability than they do with hierarchy and status. We want people to write the “right way” so that they can be like us, and we decide that X or Y is the “wrong way” and we sneer and feel very superior. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/152 "2009-11-16T15:53:03Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I don’t for one minute believe that anyone here has a problem reading text that lacks capitalization. :rolleyes: Oh no, of course not. That’s exactly why corporate and academic researchers on speech processing put so much time and effort into [developing and publishing algorithms for automated capitalization and punctuation of machine-transcribed speech](http://symptotic.com/mj/gravano2009restoring.pdf), because it doesn’t matter a bit to the reader whether text includes capitalization or not: > [@](#): > > RESTORING PUNCTUATION AND CAPITALIZATION IN TRANSCRIBED SPEECH > > ABSTRACT > > Adding punctuation and capitalization greatly improves the readability of automatic speech transcripts. We discuss an approach for performing both tasks in a single pass using a purely text-based n-gram language model. We study the effect on performance of varying the n-gram order (from n = 3 to n = 6) and the amount of training data (from 58 million to 55 billion tokens). Our results show that using larger training data sets consistently improves performance, while increasing the n-gram order does not help nearly as much. […] > > 1. INTRODUCTION > > State-of-the-art automatic speech recognition (ASR) systems still produce raw word streams that, even with no recognition errors, are often difficult to read—not only for humans, but also for natural language processing tools, which usually expect formatted text as input. Issues that need to be addressed include formatting numbers, dates and places, removing disfluencies, inserting punctuation symbols, and correctly capitalizing all words. To illustrate this problem, consider the following excerpt of a broadcast news transcript, along with its formatted version: > > to simulate the terrain of mars scientists put the > rover in hawaii’s kilauea volcano the kids sit two > thousand four hundred miles away at the nasa > ames research center in mountain view california > > To simulate the terrain of Mars, scientists put > the rover in Hawaii’s Kilauea volcano. The kids > sit 2400 miles away at the NASA Ames Research > Center in Mountain View, CA. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/153 "2009-11-16T17:09:15Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > diane email me and i will wire 100 grand into your bank account > thank god she will not invest the effort to read this dropping If you’re calling your posts ‘droppings’, maybe you should reassess things. Sure they lack capitalization, but they’re not so badly formed as to constitute scat. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/154 "2009-11-16T17:19:59Z")
I notice that none of you have answered why you can’t just skim past posts that don’t capitalize or punctuate the way you’d like. > [@dhkendall](#): > > I feel I could do that with you SFG, since we treated each other with respect, and the way you pointed out that I couldn’t “cast the first stone” I found was presented fairly. I’ll buy the first round. 😃 > [@Kimstu](#): > > It’s not funny because it completely misses the point of what’s actually being complained about in this Pitting. You’ve got a stick \*so far up your ass \*that it’s actually destroyed the humor centor of your brain. My cite is the fact that even the OP of the thread thought it was funny. > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I thanked him for pointing out my error. I don’t know how I could have made it more clear. Oh my. Apparently I do have to quote the entire chain of posts. Here’s the particular thread of conversation being discussed: > [@koufax](#): > > I don’t understand. Do you mean “make” understanding easier? > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > This thread is not all that long. Perhaps you could be bothered to read the fucking thing before commenting. Is that too much to ask? > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Perhaps you could be bothered to actually read the response in context, in which case you’d realize that it’s mocking you for saying \*makes \*where you should have said _make_ (subject/verb agreement). > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > And if you could be arsed to read the thread you would realize that the question has been asked and answered. Instead, your juices are flowing so much at the prospect of poking folks with sticks that you go off half cocked. > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > You answered the actual question. But you missed the trees for the forest (so to speak)–you \*\*were not \*\*being asked what you meant by the question, but rather having it pointed out to you that you’d made yet another grammatical error. It was not “what was the meaning of XYZ” but “didn’t you intend to say ZYX instead of XYZ.” Nowhere in there do I see you say, “Oh, thank you **koufax** , I did use the wrong form of the verb.” Certainly not in between post 83 (where you mock him because the question went over your head) and post 88 (where I first made fun of you for it). > [@Gustav](#): > > As **jtgoddess** ’s link somewhat inadvertantly points out, due to the way the brain reads text, it doesn’t even matter if the actual letters are scrambled. It’s actually bullshit. There was no study that proved that. And it doesn’t even work in all cases. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/155 "2009-11-16T17:59:58Z")
> [@Shot From Guns](#): > > I notice that none of you have answered why you can’t just skim past posts that don’t capitalize or punctuate the way you’d like. Of course we can. And we can also foregather in the Pit and complain about them. Why can’t you militant anti-prescriptivists just skim past threads like this that criticize the laziness and arrogance of people who refuse to try to follow standard conventions of written language even in settings where those conventions are normally used? Oh, that’s right, because you can’t resist the temptation to come in and “poke people with sticks”. In other words, you’re a troll. > [@Shot From Guns](#): > > My cite is the fact that even the OP of the thread thought it was funny. Indeed, **dhkendall** was admirably gracious to you about your stick-poking “gotcha” games. This being the Pit, though, where we don’t have to suffer fools gladly for the sake of maintaining graciousness, I see no need to cut you that much slack. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/156 "2009-11-16T18:26:51Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Nowhere in there do I see you say, “Oh, thank you **koufax** , I did use the wrong form of the verb.” Certainly not in between post 83 (where you mock him because the question went over your head) and post 88 (where I first made fun of you for it). [Bite me.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11770755&postcount=40) ---
**Author:** ![koufax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@koufax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koufax)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/157 "2009-11-16T19:34:25Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > [Bite me.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11770755&postcount=40) that was the FIRST time you made the error he was referring to the SECOND time but, in your defense, you did capitalize ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/158 "2009-11-16T19:53:13Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Of course we can. And we can also foregather in the Pit and complain about them. Why can’t you militant anti-prescriptivists just skim past threads like this that criticize the laziness and arrogance of people who refuse to try to follow standard conventions of written language even in settings where those conventions are normally used? I didn’t say you \*\*can’t \*\*criticize people for not following the rules you’d like them to follow. I’m just making it clear that if you’re going to decry others’ failure to adhere to your standards, you’d better proof your posts before you submit them–or be prepared to get made fun of. Have your cake and eat it, too, etc. etc. > [@](#): > > Oh, that’s right, because you can’t resist the temptation to come in and “poke people with sticks”. In other words, you’re a troll. Trolling still doesn’t mean what you think it means. > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > [Bite me.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11770755&postcount=40) Tsk tsk, you made the same mistake **twice**? With the same word, even? One would think you’d be more careful not to make the same error after having been corrected on it the first time. Unless, of course, you’re just a lazy moron who can’t be bothered to ensure his own posts are grammatically correct so as not to cause any comprehensibility problems for his readers. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/159 "2009-11-16T20:00:02Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > that was the FIRST time you made the error > > he was referring to the SECOND time > > but, in your defense, you did capitalize I’ve acknowledged that my abilities are not up to my intentions. But thanks for catching that again. [QUOTE=Shit From Guns] Tsk tsk, you made the same mistake twice? With the same word, even? One would think you’d be more careful not to make the same error after having been corrected on it the first time. Unless, of course, you’re just a lazy moron who can’t be bothered to ensure his own posts are grammatically correct so as not to cause any comprehensibility problems for his readers. [/QUOTE] Or it may be that that is an area that causes me problems. Nevertheless, the main point obtains. I am at least making an effort. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230/160 "2009-11-16T20:13:47Z")
In the Mundane Pointless Stuff I Must Share (MPSIMS) forum, **blinkie** has a great topic [Ask the guy with Locked In Syndrome](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=539322). The only way this user can “type” is by blinking when he sees the correct letter or word appear on his screen. He capitalizes words and posts in correct English. If anyone deserves a pass on capitalization, it’s **blinkie**. Unless you are also limited to typing in this way, you get no pass. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-id-like-to-buy-a-shift-key/517230.md?page=9)