# "Pat Tillman is not a hero: he got what was coming to him." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 29, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745 "2004-04-29T21:00:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/21 "2004-04-30T00:30:54Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Proves what I have been saying for years…there is a generation growing up with no sense of, knowledge of, or feelings of honor. It is just a word to them, and a word they don’t know the meaning of. Someone’s been to Bob’s World of Wide Brushes! Moron. ---
**Author:** ![deb2world](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@deb2world](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deb2world)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/22 "2004-04-30T00:35:48Z")
The idea of blamming the soldier for the war stopped with Vietnam. Today most educated people can differentiate between the soldier fight honorably and their opinion of a war. I get the feeling this kid doesn’t know the difference between the war in Afganistan and the war in Iraq. It wouldn’t surprise me to hear that he thinks they are the same with the same political motivations and goals. And that he does not equate the war in Afganistan with 9-11. A few days ago someone suggested that maybe Mr. Tillman would have been better to continue playing football and donate his $$ to helping those families of those fighting the war. Fortunately someone of greater insight said that that would be just like the rich who paid to get out of fighting the civil war. I mention this cause even those who are sensitive to the subject can get wrong ideas and need to have those gifted with wisdom point out their errors. Hopefully this young man will have someone who will point out the falicies in his thinking on Mr. Tillman. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/23 "2004-04-30T00:47:30Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > Someone’s been to Bob’s World of Wide Brushes! > > Moron. Eat shit\*\*, Garfield\*\*. What the fuck do you know about it? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/24 "2004-04-30T00:56:20Z")
Yep, the author’s an asshat. Put generously, it sounds like he’s let his cynicism over the war in Iraq taint his judgment about pursuing Taliban and Al-Qaeda elements in Afghanistan. I hope those who are fighting in our War Against Terrorism don’t have to wait sixty years for their memorial, like our WWII vets. But then, we’re still waiting for the heroes of UA Flight 93 that went down in Pennsylvania to be posthumously awarded medals for their bravery. If it’s any consolation, it’s that Rene Gonzalez has just sabotaged his budding career as a political pundit. That’s the double-edged sword of youthful impetuousness in the Internet Age: instantaneous “15-minutes of fame” and a lasting taint of infamy that will never fade away entirely… ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/25 "2004-04-30T01:01:23Z")
> [@deb2world](#): > > The idea of blamming the soldier for the war stopped with Vietnam. Today most educated people can differentiate between the soldier fight honorably and their opinion of a war. It’s distinction the government and media conspire to blur, i.e., if you don’t support the war you don’t support the troops. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/26 "2004-04-30T01:15:50Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Eat shit\*\*, Garfield\*\*. What the fuck do you know about it? What do I know about the “generation growing up with no sense of, knowledge of, or feelings of honor. It is just a word to them, and a word they don’t know the meaning of”? Well, I’m a part of it for one. I believe that more than qualifies me to comment. And I did. Moron. Tillman was a hero, the kid is an idiot (assuming the quoted text is correct, and it’s not being taken horribly out of context), but I fail to see how that makes his ENTIRE GENERATION delinquent. Moron. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/27 "2004-04-30T01:28:04Z")
Afghanistan at least is a “good place” to be soldiering… can’t criticize the “war” he died in. I think its just a bad case of lashing out free speech. ``` One thing that irks me in all this Pat Tillman thing... is that people seem happy to have this example or Role Model. When in fact it be nicer if the kid was alive. Like as if the nation is better off with a dead hero kid... than a rich football hero kid. Plus he was a Ranger... Rangers aren't special forces. Better than average trained soldiers... but not special forces like SEAL, DELTA or SAS. ``` Sorry for the hijack… ---
**Author:** ![rockle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@rockle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockle)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/28 "2004-04-30T01:28:30Z")
> [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > I would bet that Rene Gonzalez has no idea who Pat Tillman was; he probably heard somebody famous got killed and saw an opportunity to bump his gums about his personal biases. … Tillman said all along that being a football player wasn’t doing any good for anyone. He said all along that if somebody was going to put their life on the line, it might as well be him. … Simply put, he enlisted because he knew somebody had to. Opposer of the war (but not the troops) chiming in here, for whatever it may be worth. I had never heard of Pat Tillman until this week, and I am sorry that it took so long. Generally I consider myself a C.O. / pacifist type, but I am glad there are people like Pat Tillman out there who are willing to defend my right to think that way. He gets my unending gratitude for that. My _ **unconditional** _, unending gratitude - same as everyone who is fighting, whether I agree with _why_ they are fighting or not. > [@](#): > > Now he’s dead and some kid sitting on his ass in fucking Massachusetts is insulting him for it? Sadly, it is not just “some kid … in Massachusetts” who is doing this. I have also heard lots of asshats - who certainly know better - doing the same thing. The fact that he is a kid or that he is from Massachusetts don’t enter into it, really. An asshat is an asshat. ---
**Author:** ![Creative\_Munster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Creative\_Munster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creative_Munster)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/29 "2004-04-30T01:38:49Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > What do I know about the “generation growing up with no sense of, knowledge of, or feelings of honor. It is just a word to them, and a word they don’t know the meaning of”? > > Well, I’m a part of it for one. I believe that more than qualifies me to comment. And I did. > > Moron. > > Tillman was a hero, the kid is an idiot (assuming the quoted text is correct, and it’s not being taken horribly out of context), but I fail to see how that makes his ENTIRE GENERATION delinquent. > > Moron. Sounds like someone skipped his nap. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/30 "2004-04-30T01:49:11Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > …there is a generation growing up with no sense of, knowledge of, or feelings of honor. It is just a word to them, and a word they don’t know the meaning of. Thank you. This is what I wanted to say, but was too disgusted to come up with. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/31 "2004-04-30T01:50:32Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > Pat Tillman did get what was coming to him…respect and the grateful thanks of the nation. Well said. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/32 "2004-04-30T01:51:41Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I’d just like to point out that the NFL is anything but a cushy job. It’s a cushier job than the Army Rangers, wouldn’t you say? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/33 "2004-04-30T01:55:05Z")
> [@Johnny G](#): > > Tillman was a hero for you Americans because he died in a just war, not part of an evil colonization plot. You just had to come and shit in my thread, didn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/34 "2004-04-30T01:59:52Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > What do I know about the “generation growing up with no sense of, knowledge of, or feelings of honor. It is just a word to them, and a word they don’t know the meaning of”? > > Well, I’m a part of it for one. I believe that more than qualifies me to comment. And I did. > > Moron. > > Tillman was a hero, the kid is an idiot (assuming the quoted text is correct, and it’s not being taken horribly out of context), but I fail to see how that makes his ENTIRE GENERATION delinquent. > > Moron. I am also a part of this kid’s generation, **Garfield**. You and I must run in different circles because I agree with **silenus’** statement. He’s obviously painting with a broad brush in making that generalization. But as George Carlin once said, “All generalizations are wrong, including this one.” I need to put that back in my sig. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/35 "2004-04-30T02:25:50Z")
The guy who wrote that article reminds me of the people who ‘hate Titanic’. I know some people who just hate whatever is popular. If it is popular, it’s crap. Tillman gets some press, so he must be crap. It’s just ignorance, oh and we’re here to fight that fucking sucks man. I have no beef with any US soldier fighting in Afghanistan or Iraq. \* But I’m a little tired of the ‘Tillman gave up a high paying job’ stuff. To me that implies that people who join the army that gave up a job a McDonalds are some how less patriotic. I know nobody has said that but it feels implied to me. \*unless of course they commite war crimes or atrocites or otherwise fail to commit themselves in an unprofessional mannor. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/36 "2004-04-30T02:42:55Z")
> [@rockle](#): > > Sadly, it is not just “some kid … in Massachusetts” who is doing this. I have also heard lots of asshats - who certainly know better - doing the same thing. The fact that he is a kid or that he is from Massachusetts don’t enter into it, really. An asshat is an asshat. I’m not sure if you’re reading a disagreement with that sentiment on my part. I didn’t mean some sort of slight towards the youth or the state of Massachusetts. Massachusetts is safer than Afghanistan, is all I’m saying. Hell, I’m a kid sitting on my ass in Florida, so it’s not like I’m putting on airs here. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/37 "2004-04-30T02:43:16Z")
Next week, in Rene Gonzalez’s opinion column: “Superman: big dumb imperialist goon. Eats kittens.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/38 "2004-04-30T03:16:51Z")
> [@RTA](#): > > The day is not yet over and it’s already making the rounds among the right-wing talking heads: UMass equals Massachusetts equals John Kerry equals John Kerry thinks Tillman got what was coming to him. And that may be it’s one and only purpose. My inner cynic says this is something more than a stupid kid. It’s _too_ stupid. It pushes \*all \* the right buttons, if your purpose is to stir up shit. It sounds like a send-up. ---
**Author:** ![theckhd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@theckhd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theckhd)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/39 "2004-04-30T03:23:40Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > He’s obviously painting with a broad brush in making that generalization. But as George Carlin once said, “All generalizations are wrong, including this one.” I think it’s a pretty broad generalization too; i’d hope that people don’t think that all of us are as ignorant as the author. It’s a shame that we’re being judged by our worst members ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lodoen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b3f665/32.png) [@Jeff\_Lodoen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lodoen)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745/40 "2004-04-30T03:37:28Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > And that may be it’s one and only purpose. > > My inner cynic says this is something more than a stupid kid. It’s _too_ stupid. It pushes \*all \* the right buttons, if your purpose is to stir up shit. > > It sounds like a send-up. By “sendup” do you mean parody or outside agitation? You ever read usenet? He’s got nothing on real extremists/trolls. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-tillman-is-not-a-hero-he-got-what-was-coming-to-him/242745.md?page=3)