# Pat Toomey, are you completely delusional? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 5, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381 "2009-05-05T02:20:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/1 "2009-05-05T02:20:58Z")
[ > [@Pat Toomey](#): > > Reagan carried this state twice. I don’t think this state has changed. ]([washington independent game - build up the town again](http://washingtonindependent.com/41765/in-1984-who-could-ask-for-more)) You don’t think Pennsylvania has changed in the past 24 years? 26, since you’ll be running next year? Seriously? Hell, is there any area of the country that hasn’t changed since 1984? Pennsylvanians, please don’t nominate him. Have someone somewhat sensible, like Ridge. Then again, Ridge and Specter are fairly similar, so perhaps that won’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/2 "2009-05-05T02:30:49Z")
The only solution is to wrap up a toaster inside a sheet, grab the sheet by the four corners, and then use it as a flail to smash his head in. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/3 "2009-05-05T02:40:28Z")
I believe Lincoln carried Pennsylvania twice as well, so Toomey might be on to something here. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/4 "2009-05-05T02:50:22Z")
You ain’t Reagan, Pat. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/5 "2009-05-05T03:33:12Z")
I wonder if Toomey forgotten that Pennsylvania hasn’t been carried by a Republican since 1988. Clinton held PA twice, and then Gore, Kerry and Obama all gained Pennsylvania. Stick that up your ass, Toomey. ---
**Author:** ![AdmiralCrunch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6f9a4e/32.png) [@AdmiralCrunch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AdmiralCrunch)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/6 "2009-05-05T04:00:57Z")
This wouldn’t be so funny if Toomey and company didn’t sprint far to the right of Reagan Republicans years ago. Spector could carry the state as a Republican, but a stark-raving lunatic who thinks America didn’t like Bush because he was too liberal will fail miserably. But keep it up Republicans, you’ll have the most ideologically pure 15 Senators ever. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/7 "2009-05-05T04:44:05Z")
You know, I keep waiting for these guys to wake up and smell the pragmatic. But they don’t – they appear to actually believe they lost because John McCain moved too far to the left and dragged the party down with him. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/8 "2009-05-05T07:31:13Z")
One of the good things about your opponents being delusional means that it’s more likely they’ll lose. So you should pray that the Republicans nominate him. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/9 "2009-05-05T09:50:59Z")
Some of us tried praying that a right-wing nutjob like Reagan would get the Pubbie nom in the 1970s and 1980s, 'cuz he’d get beaten like a gong. Put us off prayer forever, I tell ya. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/10 "2009-05-05T11:03:07Z")
Well, what the hell do you expect Toomey to say? The guys got one chance at a Senatorial run and 2010 is that chance. He’s got to play on the field before him and that means trying to assert that his chances are excellent for reasons X, Y, and Z even if those reasons appear delusional to outsiders. He MUST get his voters out there and that means trying to build an aura of victory. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/11 "2009-05-05T11:27:48Z")
But what he’s overlooking is that Santorum got trounced a few years ago, and it wasn’t because he wasn’t conservative enough. An article in the newspaper today showed that if Toomey ran against Specter in the general election, he’d lose badly. I’ve read Mr. Toomey’s positions and his voting record, and I really don’t like them. If he’s the Republican candidate, I’ll very happily vote for the Democratic candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/12 "2009-05-05T12:25:15Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Well, what the hell do you expect Toomey to say? The guys got one chance at a Senatorial run and 2010 is that chance. He’s got to play on the field before him and that means trying to assert that his chances are excellent for reasons X, Y, and Z even if those reasons appear delusional to outsiders. He MUST get his voters out there and that means trying to build an aura of victory. I have to give the guy some credit for honesty. If getting elected is his main goal, he would moderate his political stances. Spector has a different kind of honesty – getting elected is the be-all and end-all for him, and he’d run with the Greens if he thought he could win that way. Personally, I hope some Dem smacks him down in the next primary and then kicks Toomey’s ass in the general. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/13 "2009-05-05T13:10:24Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > But what he’s overlooking is that Santorum got trounced a few years ago, and it wasn’t because he wasn’t conservative enough. That comparison isn’t really apt because Santorum ran against Bob Casey, Jr. a Dem from a well known political family who is pro-life and plenty conservative himself. It would be better to say that Santorum couldn’t use his conservatism to full effect in that race. All in all, Toomey is mostly correct. The whole of PA is a fairly conservative state. Gore and Kerry won tight races because they won by enormous margins in Philly. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/14 "2009-05-05T13:27:25Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > That comparison isn’t really apt because Santorum ran against Bob Casey, Jr. a Dem from a well known political family who is pro-life and plenty conservative himself. It would be better to say that Santorum couldn’t use his conservatism to full effect in that race. > > All in all, Toomey is mostly correct. The whole of PA is a fairly conservative state. Gore and Kerry won tight races because they won by enormous margins in Philly. I’m not following this logic at all. Santorum lost to a less conservative candidate. Kerry and Gore won against more conservative candidates. And Toomey is ‘mostly’ correct? If he’s 49% of voters correct, he’s a loser. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/15 "2009-05-05T13:41:30Z")
Can we have cites and shit? I don’t know who this Toomey guy is. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/16 "2009-05-05T13:50:27Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > That comparison isn’t really apt because Santorum ran against Bob Casey, Jr. a Dem from a well known political family who is pro-life and plenty conservative himself. It would be better to say that Santorum couldn’t use his conservatism to full effect in that race. > > All in all, Toomey is mostly correct. The whole of PA is a fairly conservative state. Gore and Kerry won tight races because they won by enormous margins in Philly. You’re awful close to calling not-Philly “the real Pennsylvania” there. ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/17 "2009-05-05T13:54:38Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > All in all, Toomey is mostly correct. The whole of PA is a fairly conservative state. Gore and Kerry won tight races because they won by enormous margins in Philly. I’m not a fan of this type of argument. Does racking up huge victories in Philly not count? Philadelphians are Pennsylvanians, too. If Philly makes PA lean Democratic, then the only fair thing you can say is, “The _rest_ of PA is fairly conservative,” since the _whole_ of PA has been voting for Democrats at the Presidential level for the past 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/18 "2009-05-05T14:00:36Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Can we have cites and shit? I don’t know who this Toomey guy is. Don’t have cites, but Toomey is they guy who was going to challenge, and probably beat, Arlen Specter in the Republican primary. It’s arguable he’s the reason Specter switched parties. He’s also a bigwig in an extremely conservative group called the Club for Growth, which among other things wants to get rid of Republicans who aren’t conservative enough for their tastes. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/19 "2009-05-05T14:04:15Z")
The other thing to consider is that people on both sides of the Dem/Rep line will vote for Spectre off the name alone because that is who they have been voting for for years and as part of the majority now it is more likely that he will be able to pull some pork for his constituents before campaign time. You would be surprised how many middle of the road voters there are who are voting less on the D or R after the name and more for “who do I like”. If he can wave some recent successes under the voters noses that will gain him more than the partisan bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381/20 "2009-05-05T14:17:56Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I have to give the guy some credit for honesty. If getting elected is his main goal, he would moderate his political stances. Except a week ago, his political stance was keyed to beat Arlen Specter in a GOP primary on the grounds Specter wasn’t conservative enough. So not being “moderate” was basically his whole shtick. And he still may have a tough primary battle against moderate Tom Ridge. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pat-toomey-are-you-completely-delusional/495381.md?page=2)