# Paternal Responsibility **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708 "2012-03-24T20:24:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Borzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@Borzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borzo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/1 "2012-03-24T20:24:38Z")
Let’s say we have 3 people: Peter, Paul, and Mary. Both Peter and Paul are having sex with Mary. Not at the same time, mind you, but let’s say she’s having 2 independent sexual relationship with the 2 of them. Mary gets pregnant and has a baby. 1. Why is only ONE of them - Peter or Paul, depending on the DNA test - responsible for the child? Why does DNA play such a huge role in paternal responsibility? 1. Let’s say NEITHER Peter nor Paul wanted the baby - and were misled to believe that Mary was on birth control and did not want a baby either. Why should 1 of them - or either of the men at all - be responsible for the child? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/2 "2012-03-24T20:31:27Z")
> [@Borzo](#): > > Why does DNA play such a huge role in paternal responsibility? Because DNA determines paternity. Why should the other man be responsible for a child that isn’t his? ---
**Author:** ![Borzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@Borzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borzo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/3 "2012-03-24T20:34:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Because DNA determines paternity. Why should the other man be responsible for a child that isn’t his? It’s more of a theoretical question. Let’s say John is married to Jill. They’re actively having sex with the hopes of having a baby. Jill cheats on John with Mark, however, and gives birth to Mark’s baby. John is not responsible for that child, but Mark is. Why? Why is DNA so important? And if it is… why don’t Mark’s PARENTS have any responsibility for the child? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/4 "2012-03-24T20:35:16Z")
> [@Borzo](#): > > 1. > > Why is only ONE of them - Peter or Paul, depending on the DNA test - responsible for the child? Why does DNA play such a huge role in paternal responsibility? The role DNA plays is to identify the father. In our society, parents are generally responsible for their children. > [@Borzo](#): > > 1. > > Let’s say NEITHER Peter nor Paul wanted the baby - and were misled to believe that Mary was on birth control and did not want a baby either. Why should 1 of them - or either of the men at all - be responsible for the child? Somebody has to be responsible for the child. Infants by their very nature can’t care for themselves. Why not the two people who created it? Who else would be responsible? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/5 "2012-03-24T20:37:30Z")
> [@Borzo](#): > > John is not responsible for that child, but Mark is. Why? Mark is the father and John isn’t. John was probably not involved in the situation at all. Why should he be responsible? Because of a relationship with the mother that is not connected to the pregnancy? > [@](#): > > Why is DNA so important? And if it is… why don’t Mark’s PARENTS have any responsibility for the child? Because they’re not the father and Mark is. ---
**Author:** ![Borzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@Borzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borzo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/6 "2012-03-24T20:39:50Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > The role DNA plays is to identify the father. In our society, parents are generally responsible for their children. But why has society decided that the GENETIC father of the child is responsible for it (legally, financially, etc)? > [@](#): > > Somebody has to be responsible for the child. Infants by their very nature can’t care for themselves. Why not the two people who created it? Who else would be responsible? What if only 1 of the 2 parents agreed to create it? Why are both responsible, and not just 1? ---
**Author:** ![Borzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@Borzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borzo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/7 "2012-03-24T20:42:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Mark is the father and John isn’t. John was probably not involved in the situation at all. Why should he be responsible? Because of a relationship with the mother that is not connected to the pregnancy? John and Jill are a “2-person family” looking to have a child. Jill then has a child. Why is the DNA of the child relevant (legally, financially, socially, etc)? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/8 "2012-03-24T20:47:15Z")
> [@](#): > > What if only 1 of the 2 parents agreed to create it? Then we throw that one in jail for rape. When you have consensual sex, you accept responsibility for the fact that pregnancy might result. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/9 "2012-03-24T20:47:50Z")
> [@Borzo](#): > > But why has society decided that the GENETIC father of the child is responsible for it (legally, financially, etc)? That’s how it has been handled for millennia as far as I know. Who else would be responsible? > [@Borzo](#): > > John and Jill are a “2-person family” looking to have a child. Jill then has a child. Why is the DNA of the child relevant (legally, financially, socially, etc)? They agreed John would be the biological father of Jill’s child, and he isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/10 "2012-03-24T20:48:22Z")
Why should Mark be legally obligated to pay for Mark’s and Jill’s actions. ---
**Author:** ![Borzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@Borzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borzo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/11 "2012-03-24T20:53:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Then we throw that one in jail for rape. When you have consensual sex, you accept responsibility for the fact that pregnancy might result. I don’t really agree. Let’s say 2 people have consensual sex. Both agree they do not want a baby. The woman says she would pursue abortion/adoption if there was an “accident”. The woman says she is taking a birth control pill. Let’s say she lied, and wasn’t on the pill… or let’s say that she was part of the 1% for whom the pill isn’t effective. She gets pregnant. She then carries the baby to term, gives birth, and chooses to keep the baby. Why should the father be liable for any responsibility in this case? I don’t believe he should be. ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/12 "2012-03-24T20:55:47Z")
> [@Borzo](#): > > John and Jill are a “2-person family” looking to have a child. Jill then has a child. Why is the DNA of the child relevant (legally, financially, socially, etc)? If Jill and John were looking to have a child, and Jill had the baby with Mark, is Mark being made the sperm donor for the couple, or is Jill misleading John to think it was his biological child? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/13 "2012-03-24T21:00:53Z")
As with other activities in life like cooking, driving or owning a home your mitigate your risks by your actions and by contractual agreement. However those mitigation do not absolve you of your responsibilities if things do not go as planned. You can intend to drive to work and not get in an accident but if you do you have a responsibility to pay for your mistakes. The Child support is not for the woman, it is for the child. She may have ultimate control on terminating or going through with the pregnancy but that does not absolve you of your responsibly to the child. If you want to limit your exposure to that possibility you can abstain from sex or take measures to insure that pregnancy doesn’t happen through the use of birth control that you have direct control over. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/14 "2012-03-24T21:06:05Z")
> [@Borzo](#): > > I don’t really agree. > > Let’s say 2 people have consensual sex. Both agree they do not want a baby. The woman says she would pursue abortion/adoption if there was an “accident”. The woman says she is taking a birth control pill. > > Let’s say she lied, and wasn’t on the pill… or let’s say that she was part of the 1% for whom the pill isn’t effective. She gets pregnant. She then carries the baby to term, gives birth, and chooses to keep the baby. > > Why should the father be liable for any responsibility in this case? I don’t believe he should be. By those standards, would a woman whose partner failed to withdraw quickly enough, or felt the condom break but kept going, or replaced her birth control pills with those delicious little St. Joseph’s aspirin for children be off the hook as well? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/15 "2012-03-24T21:07:06Z")
> [@florez](#): > > If Jill and John were looking to have a child, and Jill had the baby with Mark, is Mark being made the sperm donor for the couple, or is Jill misleading John to think it was his biological child? In that case it would fall under “marital presumption” a child born in wedlock is presumed to be that of the husband unless he takes the positive step of disputing it. ---
**Author:** ![Borzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@Borzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borzo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/16 "2012-03-24T21:18:33Z")
> [@florez](#): > > If Jill and John were looking to have a child, and Jill had the baby with Mark, is Mark being made the sperm donor for the couple, or is Jill misleading John to think it was his biological child? Jill is misleading John. Perhaps this was a bad example on my part. I think #2 in my original post better illustrates my point:Two men have sex with 1 woman… and through the flip of a coin, one of them gets chosen to be the genetic father of her child. My question is if both of those men are effectively equivalent, why does only 1 get to bear the responsibility? Why is luck the deciding factor in responsibility? > [@rat\_avatar](#): > > As with other activities in life like cooking, driving or owning a home your mitigate your risks by your actions and by contractual agreement. > > However those mitigation do not absolve you of your responsibilities if things do not go as planned. > > You can intend to drive to work and not get in an accident but if you do you have a responsibility to pay for your mistakes. > > The Child support is not for the woman, it is for the child. > > She may have ultimate control on terminating or going through with the pregnancy but that does not absolve you of your responsibly to the child. > > If you want to limit your exposure to that possibility you can abstain from sex or take measures to insure that pregnancy doesn’t happen through the use of birth control that you have direct control over. That’s all well and good, but it doesn’t seem to answer the question of: If ONE single person independently decides to have a child, how can TWO people be responsible for it? That doesn’t seem logical nor reasonable. > [@sugaree](#): > > By those standards, would a woman whose partner failed to withdraw quickly enough, or felt the condom break but kept going, or replaced her birth control pills with those delicious little St. Joseph’s aspirin for children be off the hook as well? Partially yes. But it’s irrelevant because it’s the woman’s body, and she has 100% control over whether to have the baby or not, or whether to give it up for adoption. In other words, if the man deceived her and she became pregnant, she shouldn’t be responsible for the child. (And she - in most cases - doesn’t have to be.) ---
**Author:** ![Borzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@Borzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borzo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/17 "2012-03-24T21:20:18Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > In that case it would fall under “marital presumption” a child born in wedlock is presumed to be that of the husband unless he takes the positive step of disputing it. I’m not sure about how the law in different countries deals with this, but if you are effectively the father of “someone else’s” child for an extended period of time (eg 10 years), and you then discover you are not the genetic father, you would still be responsible for child support, etc. Does anyone have any more information about this? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/18 "2012-03-24T21:34:53Z")
> [@Borzo](#): > > Why is luck the deciding factor in responsibility? Because life isn’t fair. So far as society is concerned, if you don’t want to have to deal with the outcome of your actions, then don’t commit those actions. If that day comes where you lose your gamble, well tough. Sure, in this instance, only Peter (for example) struck out, but Paul’s time is coming as well. Given enough time and enough sex, Paul’s going to have to pony up to support a child as well. Society doesn’t need to intervene because playing the game is its own punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/19 "2012-03-24T21:35:35Z")
> [@Borzo](#): > > Let’s say John is married to Jill. They’re actively having sex with the hopes of having a baby. Jill cheats on John with Mark, however, and gives birth to Mark’s baby. > > John is not responsible for that child, but Mark is. Why? IANAL, but I believe legally John is presumed to be the father if he is married to Jill, no matter who the genetic father is. Lawyers, correct me if I am wrong. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/20 "2012-03-24T21:39:03Z")
If you’re married and your wife gets pregnant, you’re the father. Your net, your fish. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708.md?page=2)