# Paternal Responsibility **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708 "2012-03-24T20:24:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Borzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@Borzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borzo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/281 "2012-03-28T03:47:50Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > You want to allow men time to decide they don’t want to be a parent after conception; a “dad’s abortion” if you will. But how on earth would that work? Most pregnancies are aborted very early on. That is because the longer the pregnancy goes on, the more dangerous, expensive, painful and illegal the procedure becomes. And what about if there is more than one potential father? > > I just cannot see an equitable way to legislate something like this. All you would be doing is increasing the burdens on the woman, who is already bearing more than half. How is this fair?! Men have birth control options, they should use them. If they do not, and do not take any care about who they may impregnate, I am very uncomfortable with shielding them from the results of that irresponsibility by placing further burdens on women and children. THAT, to me, is unfair. 1. A mother or father would be able to surrender their obligations up to 6-8 weeks after conception. I think that’s a reasonable amount of time. 2. What burdens would be increased upon the woman, exactly? 3. Men should use birth control options if they want to avoid a birth. It’s reasonable to require a man to use preventative birth control if he wishes to prevent fatherhood. If it is believed that this should be a prerequisite to exercising surrender, then I can go along with that. > [@](#): > > No. I have the right to vote, but I don’t have to. I have the right to abortion, but I may also carry a pregnancy to term. Having a right does not mean you have to take advantage of that right. > > If a custodial parent chooses to forgo child support, but is unable to care for the child without that support, then there are many different ways to deal with that so the child is not shortchanged or neglected. I believe a child has a right to _support_, in general. I just don’t believe the child has a right to support from either/both of it’s biological parents, specifically. The biological parents, or the mother alone, have full determination over whether this right exists for the child, and can effectively null-and-void this right completely. Therefore it’s not really a right, since someone else (a parent) can effectively eliminate it. The right that parents cannot eliminate are the rights to support, in general. But I think that distinction is important, especially when attempting to make the specific claim that “A child has a right to financial support from it’s biological father”. > [@](#): > > I’ll ask of you what I asked of **erislover**. _What, exactly, are you advocating for here?_ What is your “solution”? I see a lot of hemming and hawing about fairness, but no concrete solutions, simple or otherwise. The short version: Biological parents should have the right to surrender their parental obligations within 6-8 weeks of conception. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/282 "2012-03-28T03:49:08Z")
And if I don’t know a man’s who I slept with’s name, there is no way for me to collect child support. Both parties are capable of skipping town, hiding out, or refusing contact. If a guy gives me a fake name and no real contact information, there is nothing I can do. What men can do is what women have had to do for all of human history- choose trustworthy partners, and be very careful about how and when you have potentially procreative sex. It’s all either one of us gots. Again, the situation of “I had no idea i had a kid and then she gave it up for adoption WAH” happens to at best a handful of guys a decade. THe problem of men choosing not to support their children happens to millions of kids every day. **Ed** , you are not a deadbeat dad. And I don’t think you will find anyone here who doesn’t believe that fathers should have equal custody rights. But stop making stuff up, because it hurts the reasonable among you. It is absolutely not true that a woman in your situation would not need to inform the courts as to where she is. Anyone who has a child support order would have to do that, and if you had full custody (which maybe you should have) she would be in your shoes. ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/283 "2012-03-28T03:58:34Z")
> [@Borzo](#): > > 1. A mother or father would be able to surrender their obligations up to 6-8 weeks after conception. I think that’s a reasonable amount of time. > > (snip) And you’d be wrong again. Many women do not know they are pregnant during that 6-8 week period. Skipping a period is not unusual and wouldn’t automatically cause a woman to check. It really would help if you knew more about the real life issues. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/284 "2012-03-28T04:07:12Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Oh my god. > > **BOTH PARENTS HAVE THE EXACT SAME RIGHTS IN REGARDS TO ADOPTION; THEY HAVE TO AGREE OR NEITHER CAN GIVE THE CHILD UP!** No, they don’t. Otherwise the State would not be able to force child support. If a woman chooses to keep the child a man can be compelled to pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![Borzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@Borzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borzo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/285 "2012-03-28T04:11:01Z")
> [@maggenpye](#): > > And you’d be wrong again. > > Many women do not know they are pregnant during that 6-8 week period. Skipping a period is not unusual and wouldn’t automatically cause a woman to check. > > It really would help if you knew more about the real life issues. I don’t think it would be reasonable to have a parent surrender their parental obligations after 3+ months into a pregnancy, because a woman might not be able to get an abortion at that point. Ideally, parental obligations should be decided between a couple _before_ conception, and formed into a legally binding contract. But I’m willing to have that extended to cover the first trimester of pregnancy as well. Also: A woman of reproductive age who has skipped one (or two!) menstrual periods while being sexually active should probably get a pregnancy test. ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/286 "2012-03-28T04:30:38Z")
> [@Borzo](#): > > I don’t think it would be reasonable to have a parent surrender their parental obligations after 3+ months into a pregnancy, because a woman might not be able to get an abortion at that point. > > Ideally, parental obligations should be decided between a couple _before_ conception, and formed into a legally binding contract. But I’m willing to have that extended to cover the first trimester of pregnancy as well. > > Also: A woman of reproductive age who has skipped one (or two!) menstrual periods while being sexually active should probably get a pregnancy test. This is nothing like your original stance, you’ve dropped the whole ‘but it’s such a hassle to think of this when you’re drunk’ part of your argument. You’ve dropped the post-birth walkout as well. Thanks for having the maturity to change your mind. There are many practical reasons why the custodial parent cannot sign away the rights of the child to support from its non-custodial parent. They’ve been laid out in this thread many times already. Yes, it would be lovely if every woman checked for pregnancy every time she had sex. It would be nice if there were no false positives, false negatives, if all women had regular periods all the time, if all women stopped having periods when they were pregnant, if people didn’t lie about fertility and so on and so on. It’s a bit like your statement that only women know their risk of fertility, so completely wrong for so many reasons that I can only suggest you educate yourself before making further comment. Please. But it wouldn’t change the fact that any resulting child is still entitled to minimal support. Current laws and societal expectations lay this contribution on the father. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/287 "2012-03-28T05:29:41Z")
> [@pbbth](#): > > I would hope that other people would be willing to do the same instead of just complaining about how women get the choice of an abortion so it isn’t fair. I would hope they would, too, but **we know that they don’t**. Now what? ---
**Author:** ![Borzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@Borzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borzo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/288 "2012-03-28T05:31:12Z")
> [@maggenpye](#): > > This is nothing like your original stance, you’ve dropped the whole ‘but it’s such a hassle to think of this when you’re drunk’ part of your argument. You’ve dropped the post-birth walkout as well. Thanks for having the maturity to change your mind. Well… I started this thread with a question, not an answer. While I haven’t received answers to all the questions that I’ve had, I have certainly learned a lot in the process. I’ve only really come to form my own opinions recently. But I honestly don’t recall making any sort of argument for irresponsible drunken sex at any time 🙂 Nor do I recall ever explicitly supporting a “post-birth walkout”: I think parents should be able to surrender their children for adoption (which obviously takes place post-birth) – but I do believe that the decision itself should be made pre-birth. > [@](#): > > There are many practical reasons why the custodial parent cannot sign away the rights of the child to support from its non-custodial parent. They’ve been laid out in this thread many times already. If the custodial parent is a woman, then she can: 1. Keep the father’s name off birth certificate. 2. Anonymously abandon the child. 3. Receive artificial insemination from an anonymous sperm donor. These 3 decisions by the mother effectively eliminate the rights of the child to support _from his biological father_. My argument is simply that if a mother, based on her choice, can do this… then it is not really a “right”. > [@](#): > > Yes, it would be lovely if every woman checked for pregnancy every time she had sex. It would be nice if there were no false positives, false negatives, if all women had regular periods all the time, if all women stopped having periods when they were pregnant, if people didn’t lie about fertility and so on and so on. I didn’t say that my time-frames were ideal and without issues. If necessary, I’d be totally okay with extending the window of opportunity to accept/reject your parental obligations all the way to before childbirth, if necessary. This acceptance or rejection should obviously be done _before conception_ if possible (though this is not always practical)… but I see no real issues with this extension. Of course, once committed to a child there’d be no going back. Therefore it would be in the best interests of both parents to have regular and frequent pregnancy tests so that in the case of a positive result, they’d still have plenty of time to consider all the options. > [@](#): > > It’s a bit like your statement that only women know their risk of fertility, so completely wrong for so many reasons that I can only suggest you educate yourself before making further comment. Please. I still stand by my opinion that: Only a woman can make an informed assessment of the risk of pregnancy at all times. [Youtube link, for reference.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=JRdq2zqGxgY#t=460s) ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/289 "2012-03-28T05:49:23Z")
Who is she? Which qualifications does she hold? Which organisation does she represent? What is her reason for promoting ths particular viewpoint? Without knowing the above, she’s just some anonymous person giving an opinion that goes against many of the facts current laws and are based on. Seriously not going to listen to 18 minutes of opinion in the hopes of finding a fact. And if a man honestly can’t trust a woman’s word on her fertility, and has ill protected sex with her anyway, how does that make him \*less \*responsible? If you can’t trust the person you’re fucking, protect yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Borzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@Borzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borzo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/290 "2012-03-28T06:20:23Z")
> [@maggenpye](#): > > Who is she? Which qualifications does she hold? Which organisation does she represent? What is her reason for promoting ths particular viewpoint? That’s irrelevant. I did not submit that video for the purposes of a background check, character analysis, or ad hominem attack… but merely for the content and the arguments contained within. She can summarize a view that I 90% agree with, much faster than I could ever type it out. I added it for the purposes of optional listening and convenience. > [@](#): > > Seriously not going to listen to 18 minutes of opinion in the hopes of finding a fact. I specifically linked the the part of the video where the relevant 5-minute segment occurs so that no one would have to listen to the full 18 minutes. But as I said, it’s purely optional. > [@maggenpye](#): > > And if a man honestly can’t trust a woman’s word on her fertility, and has ill protected sex with her anyway, how does that make him \*less \*responsible? If you can’t trust the person you’re fucking, protect yourself. A man can trust the woman, but the woman can still lie. ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/291 "2012-03-28T06:56:17Z")
For all I know she’s just some loon with a diploma in palmistry from [godissoocute.com](http://godissoocute.com) If you can’t trust the person you are fucking you need to take responsibility for your own fertility, or take responsibility for the possible outome. That’s what this whole thread is about - taking responsibility for your actions, not deciding later that you no longer want to accept the risk. Sex causes babies. Most contraceptives, even if used correctly, are less than 100% effective. A sexual act between a man and a woman may result in pregnancy. The more you say women can’t be trusted, the higher you believe the risk of potential pregnancy to be - because sex causes babaies and less protected sex cause more babies. Again, how does this make men \*less \*responsible for engaging in an action that could produce a child? Why is the rest of society handed the bill for their lack of judgement? Women can trust men who lie, too. People are not always nice. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/292 "2012-03-28T07:27:29Z")
> [@](#): > > I kinda feel like I’m back in the 1500s. Woman as chattel, and all that. But you’re the one arguing that sex should have serious consequences and that pregnancy has entails an inevitable financial burden on the man. What do we call a man that wants to have sex and have the state pay for it? A slut? For the record, I obviously agree that it would be ideal if every child had two or more adults completely invested financially and socially in their child and I find men and women (mostly men, for biological reasons) that shirk that responsibility gleefully reprehensible. I know one guy that has six or seven children by as many different mothers. None of the women were raped, but I place the blame solely on the guy’s lack of responsibility (well and the environmental factors that caused him to think it was a good idea). On the other hand, I have massive respect for a friend of mine that quit being a drug dealer and got a really tough (5am starts) construction job in order to support his pregnant girlfriend. That said, I don’t think there’s any reason to assume if a man eschews his social obligations that he’d have any desire to make financial commitments. While the state’s burdening him with financial commitments may increase contraceptive use, it may also encourage him to avoid social commitments out of fear. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/293 "2012-03-28T13:07:31Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > And if I don’t know a man’s who I slept with’s name, there is no way for me to collect child support. Both parties are capable of skipping town, hiding out, or refusing contact. If a guy gives me a fake name and no real contact information, there is nothing I can do. What men can do is what women have had to do for all of human history- choose trustworthy partners, and be very careful about how and when you have potentially procreative sex. It’s all either one of us gots. Yet one can never know if they chose a trustworthy partner. Both women in my case had been a few months long relationship. The last one was really strange, she cut off all communication, but oddly she kept playing Words With Friends. > [@](#): > > Again, the situation of “I had no idea i had a kid and then she gave it up for adoption WAH” happens to at best a handful of guys a decade. THe problem of men choosing not to support their children happens to millions of kids every day. They may not give the child up for adoption, but if people are willing to walk away from relationships then why wouldn’t a woman just say screw him, it’s not worth going after support if he’s not going to pay. Especially if she has a family that’s willing to do that. I’ve been trying to find any good cites for deadbeat parents, yet they all seem to have one of two positions, either it’s people bitching about deadbeat dads, or people bitching about paying too much. So far I’ve only come across [one page](http://deltabravo.net/custody/supportfacts.php) that isn’t too bad. > [@](#): > > (Summary: 62% of custodial mothers do not receive child support. However, of that number, three-fourths of them simply do not want child support, have not asked for it, have accepted other financial arrangements instead of child support, or the father does not have the money. Only 11% of those custodial mothers who do not receive child support, is because of “deadbeat dads”.) > [@](#): > > But stop making stuff up, because it hurts the reasonable among you. It is absolutely not true that a woman in your situation would not need to inform the courts as to where she is. Anyone who has a child support order would have to do that, and if you had full custody (which maybe you should have) she would be in your shoes. Really? I know of one case in which it is true. How normal it is I couldn’t say, but I know of at least one case where the father has custody of the children, the mother was not going to pay support for at least the first year and they have not gone back to court to start support. I’ve seen the court documents myself as it dealt with my ex. I asked my lawyer about it and was told it’s normal. Whether or not my lawyer fully understood my question I don’t know but I was confused about it. I know I’m coming at this from a different perspective, I don’t know anyone who’s had a child with a one night stand, or even a short relationship. It’s been my experience that women are just as bad about being nasty as guys are. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/294 "2012-03-28T15:36:08Z")
These threads pop up over and over. Generally speaking, it seems to me that the ones who believe men are being unfairly put upon hold this view at base: “I am entitled to have sex exactly how I want it, and it is up to the women to take care of protecting me from suffering consequences.” IOW, _she_ should be on birth control, _she_ should have an abortion (and no doubt pay for it), _she_ should give the child up for adoption, _she_ should bear all the costs of pregnancy/child raising. Any suggestions about ways the man could have taken responsibility – use a condom, get a vasectomy, chose partners/ways of having sex that cannot result in pregnancy – are all considered “too much a burden” for him to have to do. You know what it makes me think? These guys are behaving like little BOYS. “I want the fun, YOU provide it and take care of everything” is the way children interact with their parents/caregivers. “I want to eat, YOU buy the groceries and do the cooking and clean up afterwards, too. I just want to eat.” ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/295 "2012-03-28T16:54:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Any suggestions about ways the man could have taken responsibility – use a condom, get a vasectomy, chose partners/ways of having sex that cannot result in pregnancy – are all considered “too much a burden” for him to have to do. If a safety net is in place (contraception provided by insurance, child support by tax payer) then surely all these sluts will go around having sex with reckless abandon! Let’s roll these programs back to the 50s, when there were no unwanted children or abortions and all sex was conducted in marriage through a hole in the sheets for the purpose of propagating the species. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/296 "2012-03-28T17:06:20Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Yes, if a father has the child and does not choose to contribute time to their upbringing as a custodial parent, they do in fact have to contribute financially. Actually, i think the point is, they do not have to. You can’t squeeze blood from a turnip and all that. Who pays for kids when Dad can’t be found/doesn’t pay/can’t pay? The same people that would pay under **erislovers** proposal. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/297 "2012-03-28T17:25:38Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > The same people that would pay under **erislovers** proposal. Worse. Single moms pay, too, if they make enough to pay taxes at all. Our system is just that ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/298 "2012-03-28T17:28:59Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Oh my god. > > **BOTH PARENTS HAVE THE EXACT SAME RIGHTS IN REGARDS TO ADOPTION; THEY HAVE TO AGREE OR NEITHER CAN GIVE THE CHILD UP!** > > What is so freaking hard about this?! And, no, the state doesn’t “give” her custody and “force” the man to pay; very few fathers are interested in taking custody (BECAUSE IT’S HARDER) and would rather pay support. There is some discrimination in family court, true, but it is much improved these days. Women do NOT just get custody, if the father wants it too. > > The issue is that men do not want custody and they also don’t want to pay, and to that the state says “Tough titty.” Which is as it should be. > > ETA: and men DO have the right to give up the child if they can find a willing father, anyway. This happens ALL THE TIME, where a mom remarries and the new stepdad adopts her kids. What you can’t do is just bail and leave the child with one parent because you “don’t feel like being a dad”. No, they get “joint custody” where time spent is anything but joint and the father is still left paying support… So much for joint being equal. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/299 "2012-03-28T18:50:21Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > In this future where men can abdicate their responsibility towards their child, can women also abdicate said responsibility? Let’s say men have three weeks from conception to agree to take responsibility for their child. Can I get knocked up and tell a guy “Look, either I abort your child, or you bear full responsibility for all of the child’s needs and I’ll wander around and contribute only if it happens to suit me at the moment”? > > Because that seems like a great deal for me. I’m sure I could get some pro-life guy drunk and sucker him into it. I’d love to have kids- heck- even a passel of kids, without having to give up my free and easy lifestyle. If some other sucker raises them and I don’t even have to throw down a benjamin or two every month, all the better. If I can do that to enough kids, eventually one of them will be kind enough to forgive me and come visit me in my old age. I’m sure at least one or two of my new baby daddies will let me come around just enough to keep the kids in my life without actually having to do any of the work. > > My partner right now very much wants to be a father. I know he’d never give his child up and he’d never choose an abortion if there was another choice. If I can just get knocked up (can I lie about my intentions?! After all, it’s all buyer beware under this system) I can get him to raise my kids and pay for everything, and i’ll have zero obligation or responsibility. Sounds great to me-- it’s his choice, right? In order to get him to raise your kids and pay for everything under the above scenario, you would have to relinquish your parental rights. They wouldn’t be your kids and you would have no more right to see them and be around them than a stranger. Therefore, the father could take out a restraining order against you and even have you put in jail. So it would be far from the easy ride you imagine. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708/300 "2012-03-28T18:52:59Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Sorry. Unless you’re trolling, you are a monster. I am someone who believes in protecting families, not worshipping babies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paternal-responsibility/616708.md?page=16)