# Patriot Act: Extend, Reform, Expire? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 7, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483 "2015-05-07T14:55:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/1 "2015-05-07T14:55:12Z")
Three possible outcomes from latest “security” kerfluffle on Capitol Hill: 1. In the Senate, Mitch McConnell is trying to [push through an unaltered extension](http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/mitch-mcconnell-patriot-act-extension-117648.html), though the current indications are that the votes aren’t there for it. Apparently, he hopes to hold things up until the last minute and count on the boogey-man factor to override rational thought. 2. In the House, the momentum is behind [the USA Freedom Act](http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/liberal-conservatives-nsa-spying-patriot-act-117586.html), which would extend parts of the act while removing some of the more extreme elements of mass snooping. 3. If nothing at all happens, the main features of the law go away at the end of the month. My prediction is Outcome #2, with about a 30% chance of Outcome #3 as a result of general Congressional dysfunction. _Addendum:_ And, in a new wrinkle, much of the mass snooping undertaking under the supposed aegis of the Patriot Act [turns out to be illegal](http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/nsa-phone-data-collection-illegal-court-ruling-117725.html) even under the “authorization” language (the ruling was on statutory, not constitutional, issues, so the fundamental questions were not touched upon). ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/2 "2015-05-07T16:25:27Z")
I think you are very likely right. I think the odds of #3 are probably somewhat lower, maybe 15%, but option 2 seems to be a very popular choice. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/3 "2015-05-07T16:26:32Z")
Let it expire. It was by and large a useless piece of legislation in 2001 and it remains so today. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/4 "2015-05-07T17:03:09Z")
I want it gone. Fear is just not who we are. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/5 "2015-05-07T21:29:34Z")
I don’t think I have to read something called “The USA Freedom Act” to know that I’m against it. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/6 "2015-05-07T21:39:36Z")
We apparently need the “USA Freedom Act” to give an alternative to “The Patriot Act” because without that, you’re just opposing patriotism. But I think freedom is at least equal to patriotism, so it’s okay. Perhaps when we revise the USA Freedom Act, we’ll write the BALD EAGLES AND MOUNTAIN DEW EVERYWHERE BROS, AMERICA FUCK YEAH! Act. Because we’re all 7 year olds, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/7 "2015-05-07T21:54:35Z")
I feel freer already!! ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/8 "2015-05-07T22:09:53Z")
I vote to let it expire. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/9 "2015-05-07T22:11:57Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I vote to let it expire. Why do you hate freedom? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/10 "2015-05-07T22:41:53Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Why do you hate freedom? Because freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/11 "2015-05-07T22:56:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Why do you hate freedom? Turns out, that shit’s expensive, and I’m saving up for a PS4. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/12 "2015-05-07T23:51:43Z")
Create a giant pinata shaped in the form of a legislative bill, burn it in effigy, and let kids beat it with sticks until the WMD’s fall out. Or, more reasonably, toss it into the scrap-bin of historical hysterical horseshit. ---
**Author:** ![desertmonk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@desertmonk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/desertmonk)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/13 "2015-05-08T00:56:21Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Because freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose. I will buy you a drink for this post. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/14 "2015-05-08T01:05:18Z")
The only parts that should remain are the parts that reform our security departments so that they can share information. The rest we can live without. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/15 "2015-05-11T01:06:52Z")
Let it all expire. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/16 "2015-05-11T01:57:04Z")
Well, if we are voting and all, I’d say let it expire. I think the most likely outcome, however, is number 2…and everyone knows that number 2 generally smells pretty bad. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/17 "2015-05-11T02:13:47Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I vote to let it expire. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Why do you hate freedom? > [@Miller](#): > > Turns out, that shit’s expensive, and I’m saving up for a PS4. [“Freedom isn’t free; no there’s a hefty fuckin’ fee…”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVkTmnJkAN8&spfreload=10) ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/18 "2015-05-11T15:59:11Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I want it gone. Fear is just not who we are. What is the basis for your second line? In my view of numerous public policies - criminal justice, immigration, defense, trade, etc. - I’d say fear appears to play as big a role as just about any other factor. In general, I see considerable disjunct between how many (most?) Americans view American values and the American way of life, and how those Americans actually behave. Hell, I despised the PA back then - it is even more offensive now. But big data and tech have advanced so far, and far too many folk are profiting from the fear and surveillance economies to effectively dial it back. That is a big problem with increasing someone’s power. When the successor gets in, they realize how useful it is to have the power they previoulsy criticized. I predict some similarly lengthy and opaque legislation will be passed, ostensibly establishing procedures to address specific portions of the PA. In time, that legislation will be found to have caused/allowed it’s own issues. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/19 "2015-05-20T01:08:42Z")
The Dysfunction Junction on the Hill keeps leading me to revise my estimated odds, making “expire” increasingly likely. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483/20 "2015-05-20T02:09:26Z")
If Congress does let it die, it will be the best thing Congress has done in quite a while. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-extend-reform-expire/719483.md?page=2)