# Patriot Act supported by all Frontrunners **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 31, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659 "2008-01-31T00:50:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Poor\_College\_Student](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Poor\_College\_Student](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poor_College_Student)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/1 "2008-01-31T00:50:30Z")
I was looking at [http://www.2decide.com/table.htm](http://www.2decide.com/table.htm) and noticed that Obama, McCain, Clinton, and Romney all support the Patriot Act. How can this be? I would think at least the Democrats would oppose it! Thoughts? And anything you see in the link that surprised you? ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/2 "2008-01-31T00:57:58Z")
Political suicide to oppose it. Your opponents can make too much hay over your “hatred of America” and the general public will eat it up with a spoon. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/3 "2008-01-31T00:58:02Z")
Even Russ Feingold, the lone Senator to vote against the Patriot Act, supported most of the provisions in it. Given that, I’m not surprised to find that all the mainstream candidates for president voice support for it. Although I do believe that both Clinton and Obama have expressed reservations about a number of its provisions. ---
**Author:** ![Poor\_College\_Student](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Poor\_College\_Student](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poor_College_Student)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/4 "2008-01-31T01:10:01Z")
Maybe I falsely assumed, but isn’t the general population against it? ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/5 "2008-01-31T01:30:52Z")
“The Patriot Act” has a nice ring to it for those who don’t know about its many controversial provisions. Sort of like how the poor and middle class are all against the “Death Tax”. I mean, how could any sane person not be against the DEATH TAX? (queue ghoulish organ music) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/6 "2008-01-31T01:40:11Z")
[QUOTE=Poor College Student] Maybe I falsely assumed, but isn’t the general population against it? [/QUOTE] In my experience, most people who claim to be against it are unable to accurately identify a specific provision of the Act that they oppose. People will say things like, “It lets the government search your house without ever getting a warrant!” when, in fact it does not. I am unaware of any finding that the majority of the public is against it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/7 "2008-01-31T01:45:53Z")
[QUOTE=Patty O’Furniture] “The Patriot Act” has a nice ring to it for those who don’t know about its many controversial provisions. [/QUOTE] See [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usa_patriot_act) for the provisions. What disturbed me most about it was not any specific provision but the way it was enacted. It was dumped into Congress’ lap **right after** 9/11/01 – signed into law 10/26/01 – you know a phone-book-sized bill couldn’t possibly have been **drafted** in that time. In short it was a wet-dream wish-list of authoritarian measures the Admin had all ready to go but knew it couldn’t get passed in the pre-9/11 political environment; and then when the window of opportunity opened, it was rammed through so fast hardly any Congresscritter had time to read it or did, as was shown graphically in _Farenheit 9-11._ As though any questioning or debate were somehow an imminent threat to national security and only a traitor would suggest otherwise. Where I come from, this is called “pulling a fast one.” ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/8 "2008-01-31T01:57:45Z")
In terms of votes, neither Romney nor Obama could have voted for the PATRIOT Act which was passed before Obama was in the Senate and in a body of which Romney is not a member. But Obama said he would have voted against the original. However, Obama did reauthorize a modified version of the original act. His explanation of that vote is [here](http://obama.senate.gov/podcast/051216-the_patriot_act/index.php) . Some provisions of the act are good, others are bad. It’s a big act. As for where Americans stand, it depends on the provision. For example, one poll asked “One provision in the Patriot Act allows federal agents to secretly search a U.S. citizen’s home without informing the person of that search for an unspecified period of time. Do you approve or disapprove of this provision?” 71% of Americans disapproved. For other provisions, there was more support. Many of the more controversial provisions were disapproved of by a majority of people as of 2004 polling. I’m unaware of polling done since the modified version was passed. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/9 "2008-01-31T02:08:58Z")
[This](http://factcheck.barackobama.com/factcheck/2008/01/05/fact_check_obamas_consistent_p_1.php) is a better link than the one I gave. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/10 "2008-01-31T02:51:35Z")
[QUOTE=Poor College Student] Maybe I falsely assumed, but isn’t the general population against it? [/QUOTE] They are against it until something terrible happens… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/11 "2008-01-31T03:24:46Z")
[QUOTE=Poor College Student] Maybe I falsely assumed, but isn’t the general population against it? [/QUOTE] I couldn’t find any recent polls, but [this one](http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-08-30-patriot-act_x.htm) from Aug '05 states: > [@](#): > > Fewer than half of those polled, 42%, are able to correctly identify the law’s main purpose of enhancing surveillance procedures for federal law enforcement agencies, according to the poll conducted by the Center for Survey Research and Analysis at the University of Connecticut. > > Almost two-thirds of all Americans, 64%, said they support the Patriot Act. But support dropped to 57% among those who could accurately identify the intent of the legislation. It’s a complicated piece of legislation. I couldn’t honestly say whether we’re better off with it (as is) or without it (none of it at all). Lots of legislation is like that. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/12 "2008-01-31T04:08:31Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] In my experience, most people who claim to be against it are unable to accurately identify a specific provision of the Act that they oppose. People will say things like, “It lets the government search your house without ever getting a warrant!” when, in fact it does not. [/QUOTE] Yes, instead they should be saying “It lets the government search your house without telling you that they did so, and without demonstrating that they had a warrant to do so.” Better? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/13 "2008-01-31T04:48:50Z")
[QUOTE=ManiacMan] They are against it until something terrible happens… [/QUOTE] Only if they are morons. The Patriot Act is aimed at the American people, not terrorists. The Republicans WANT “something terrible” to happen, as it benefits them. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/14 "2008-01-31T05:38:34Z")
[QUOTE=DMC] Yes, instead they should be saying “It lets the government search your house without telling you that they did so, and without demonstrating that they had a warrant to do so.” Better? [/QUOTE] Yes, better. But still not right. “It lets the government search your house without telling you that they did so until after the fact…” would be right, although not complete. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/15 "2008-01-31T05:41:50Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Yes, better. But still not right. “It lets the government search your house without telling you that they did so until after the fact…” would be right, although not complete. [/QUOTE] Which version of the act are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/16 "2008-01-31T07:23:13Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Yes, better. But still not right. “It lets the government search your house without telling you that they did so until after the fact…” would be right, although not complete. [/QUOTE] you forgot a “for an unspecified amount of time” somewhere in there, in between that part where they don’t have to tell you they did it, or demonstrate that they had a warrant to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/17 "2008-01-31T08:17:54Z")
Is it or is it not the Patriot Act which has made it possible for the government to look at our banking records, check our library reading lists, listen in on our phone calls and read our mail without a warrant? Or was that some other oppressive government? While there was a need for tightened security, this has been excessive for a free country. Maybe I could have lived with it a little easier if they had used such a blatant propaganda technique in naming it the “Patriot Act.” [Propaganda Techniques](http://mason.gmu.edu/~amcdonal/Propaganda%20Techniques.html) > [@](#): > > **Glittering Generalities** : Propagandists employ vague, sweeping statements (often slogans or simple catchphrases) using language associated with values and beliefs deeply held by the audience without providing supporting information or reason. They appeal to such notions as honor, glory, love of country, desire for peace, freedom, and family values. The words and phrases are vague and suggest different things to different people but the implication is always favorable. It cannot be proved true or false because it really says little or nothing at all. The Institute of Propaganda Analysis suggests a number of questions we should ask ourselves if we are confronted with this technique: What do the slogans or phrases really mean? Is there a legitimate connection between the idea being discussed and the true meaning of the slogan or phrase being used? What are the merits of the idea itself if it is separated from the slogans or phrases? “Patriot” Act? What would they have called it if they had been honest? The Suspension of Constitutional Rights Act? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/18 "2008-01-31T12:41:31Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Yes, better. But still not right. “It lets the government search your house without telling you that they did so until after the fact…” would be right, although not complete. [/QUOTE] My definition is just fine, actually, as it is so loosely written that “after the fact” could mean just about anything. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/19 "2008-01-31T12:42:39Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] Which version of the act are you talking about? [/QUOTE] Section 213 was not part of the sunset provisions, so it was in the original and remains to this day. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659/20 "2008-01-31T13:08:32Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] “Patriot” Act? What would they have called it if they had been honest? The Suspension of Constitutional Rights Act? [/QUOTE] More like the “IOKIYAAR Act”. **Bricker** will shortly be against it. -Joe [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriot-act-supported-by-all-frontrunners/435659.md?page=2)