# Patriotic Bikers to Fred Phelps: Up Yours **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 22, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652 "2006-02-22T17:30:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/41 "2006-02-23T19:45:04Z")
I think these Biker groups serve a great purpose. They are a presence (as has been mentioned)- I know that at my friend’s funeral, the 300 or so motorcycles rolling up was really a beautiful thing (and I mean that, it made me cry). I couldn’t believe that total strangers, completely removed from the situation, took the time to come pay their respects and help. The bikers were also intimidating (lind up next to the swat team and a unit of soldiers in riot gear). I know that more than anything, those guys (and gals) showing up really added strength to the widow. Just knowing someone was there to help meant a lot to her- she still talks about it all the time. \ And for those of you that had been following that saga: I just found out from my neighbor (the leader of the local gay rights group) that Phelps and his Klan were in town that morning. The gay rights group actually sent a few people to keep an eye out on Phelps. Apparently, the gaggle was seen eating at a local Denny’s while they waited for a scout to come back from the church and graveyard. When they realized they’d be in for a major ass kicking, they decided not to show. \ ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/42 "2006-02-23T20:51:33Z")
Ya know, it would be wonderfully ironic if, by stupidly picketing military funerals, Phelps is inadvertently generating sympathy for the gay rights movement … ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/43 "2006-02-23T21:45:29Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > They may be there, and they may be legal, but powerful they are not. They’ve got enough power that their numbers are growing all the time. They’ve got enough power that they poison the minds of their children and society’s throw-away teen population. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/44 "2006-02-24T05:48:33Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > I can honestly assure you that when he dies, I will not be protesting. It’d be kinda funny to get as many people dressed as hardcore communists as you could find, and make a big show of _mourning_ Phelps along his funeral route. And talk to as many reporters as you can, saying how you agree that with the homosexuals exterminated, it’ll be so much easier to crush the decadant western nations under glorious Stalinist revolution. That outta blow some fuses. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/45 "2006-02-24T19:48:06Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > It’d be kinda funny to get as many people dressed as hardcore communists as you could find… :dubious: How do hardcore communists dress? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/46 "2006-02-24T20:11:47Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > I’d never heard of this Phelps fellow, but this sentence from the article linked in the OP tells me what a class act he and his followers are::rolleyes:Sounds like a really Christian church to me. The “church” consists solely of his family and a few hangers-on. He’s a sadistic bastard who used to beat the shit out of his family while the kids were growing up, but then when they finally stood up to him, he turned his attention to harassing gays. The man is insane. I’d give my left arm to hear a psychiatrist’s evaluation of him. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/47 "2006-02-24T20:19:59Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > :dubious: How do hardcore communists dress? Beret with red star, Che Guevara t-shirt . . . ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/48 "2006-02-24T20:45:42Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > :dubious: How do hardcore communists dress? Like [this,](http://www.idcpc.org.cn/english/xiaoping/images/m-x-4.gif) for one example. [sub]Totally unrelated hijack, but I also have to share [this](http://www.allhatnocattle.net/Bush%20chinese%20finger.jpg), which I found while searching for the previous image.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/49 "2006-02-24T21:01:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [sub]Totally unrelated hijack, but I also have to share [this](http://www.allhatnocattle.net/Bush%20chinese%20finger.jpg), which I found while searching for the previous image.[/sub] Well \*that’s \*the new desktop background. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/50 "2006-02-24T21:40:49Z")
> [@Gringo\_Miami](#): > > I did not think he was joking. He answered my question very completely. Given the fact that I knew nothing about his background, my question was legitimate. I am glad he is doing the work that he is. It is needed, and for the common good. **Gringo\_Miami** I salute what you and your group are doing. I have ridden for decades and live up closer to Daytona. Is there a chapter in this area with which I can help in this cause? I can think of no greater tribute than a show of solidarity for our fallen. Anything to counter that prick Phelps ranks highly with me and the people I ride with. And the comparison to an event 30 some-odd years ago with Hell’s Angels was, well, not the brightest I’ve heard. And in this issue, if I was to guess which side of the street they’d be on, I suspect the HA would be on the side opposing Phelps. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/51 "2006-02-24T23:05:11Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > :dubious: How do hardcore communists dress? I always thought they dressed like [this](http://www.rathergood.com/laibach/) . I think these bikers are great, certainly nothing like the HA at Altamont (who, in any case were working security rather than protesting and–according to several eyewitness accounts–stoned out of their minds to boot). As long as they don’t assault protestors, I have no problem with it, and nothing I’ve seen or read indicates anything other than a peaceful counterprotest. It must be a beautiful sight at the funeral. It almost makes me wish I rode a Harley. ---
**Author:** ![Gringo\_Miami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f17d59/32.png) [@Gringo\_Miami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gringo_Miami)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/52 "2006-02-24T23:09:31Z")
> [@Nic2004](#): > > **Gringo\_Miami** I salute what you and your group are doing. I have ridden for decades and live up closer to Daytona. Is there a chapter in this area with which I can help in this cause? I can think of no greater tribute than a show of solidarity for our fallen. Anything to counter that prick Phelps ranks highly with me and the people I ride with. \*\*Nic2004 \*\*— thank you for the acknowledgement. Minor point… the Patriot Guard is far from “my group”… I just joined recently. All you need to do join is sign up on the website [Patriot Guard Riders](http://patriotguard.org/). Spread the word! ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/53 "2006-02-24T23:40:05Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > The man is insane. I’d give my left arm to hear a psychiatrist’s evaluation of him. He’s a goddam sociopath. That’s what a shrink would say. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/54 "2006-02-25T00:48:04Z")
> [@Gringo\_Miami](#): > > \*\*Nic2004 \*\*— thank you for the acknowledgement. Minor point… the Patriot Guard is far from “my group”… I just joined recently. All you need to do join is sign up on the website [Patriot Guard Riders](http://patriotguard.org/). > > Spread the word! It is done. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/55 "2006-02-25T05:16:25Z")
Much as I admire what these bikers are doing, I don’t see it as an ideal solution all the way around. First of all, I am kind of old-fashioned in believing a funeral should be a time of quiet visitation and contemplation, and while a motorcycle certainly wouldn’t be out of place here, a great many of them might well be, depending on the wishes of the family involved. Secondly, I’d like to find some way to keep Phelps away from mourners that doesn’t involve intimidation and confrontation close to a funeral site. That seems misplaced to me, and could well lead to an escalation in the future in a place wholly inappropriate for that. Therefore, I am following the steps some states are taking with interest, where they are considering laws strictly regulating or banning political protest at funerals. I don’t consider this an infringement of First Amendment rights at all, as the mourners similarly have First Amendment rights of speech, assembly and religion, and ought to be allowed to mourn and pray without interference from outside agitators. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/56 "2006-02-25T14:48:21Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Much as I admire what these bikers are doing, I don’t see it as an ideal solution all the way around. > > First of all, I am kind of old-fashioned in believing a funeral should be a time of quiet visitation and contemplation, and while a motorcycle certainly wouldn’t be out of place here, a great many of them might well be, depending on the wishes of the family involved. According to their web page, they come at the request of the family. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/57 "2006-02-25T15:36:55Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Secondly, I’d like to find some way to keep Phelps away from mourners that doesn’t involve intimidation and confrontation close to a funeral site. That seems misplaced to me, and could well lead to an escalation in the future in a place wholly inappropriate for that. > > Therefore, I am following the steps some states are taking with interest, where they are considering laws strictly regulating or banning political protest at funerals. I don’t consider this an infringement of First Amendment rights at all, as the mourners similarly have First Amendment rights of speech, assembly and religion, and ought to be allowed to mourn and pray without interference from outside agitators. I sympathize with you, **Mr. Moto**. I really, really do. I wish I could see this kind of law not violating the First Amendment. Sadly, I can’t. For reasons I’ve expressed [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7068871#post7068871) in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=357038) , I can’t see this as anything other than censoring free speech and peaceful assembly in the name of decency. Moreover, any such law could quickly be used as a precedent to outlaw other kinds of protests. I hate Phelps quite a bit. I also hate what he says. But I sure as hell don’t hate his right to say it. The bikers are probably the best compromise in what is really a fucked-up situation. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/58 "2006-02-25T19:44:17Z")
> [@Linty Fresh](#): > > I sympathize with you, **Mr. Moto**. I really, really do. I wish I could see this kind of law not violating the First Amendment. Sadly, I can’t. For reasons I’ve expressed [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7068871#post7068871) in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=357038) , I can’t see this as anything other than censoring free speech and peaceful assembly in the name of decency. Moreover, any such law could quickly be used as a precedent to outlaw other kinds of protests. > > I hate Phelps quite a bit. I also hate what he says. But I sure as hell don’t hate his right to say it. The bikers are probably the best compromise in what is really a fucked-up situation. There is a way round it. In the UK the police have the power to say that a protest cannot go to a certain place if they fear for the well-being of the public. For example they can direct two rival protests down different streets so they do not meet. Or they can direct a protest away from areas where there might be trouble. No one’s right to protest is infringed. They may say we have the right to protest in a certain place, but that can be argued that that is akin to shouting “fire” in a crowded theatre. It can also be argued that it is the police’s duty to _prevent_ such trouble occuring. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/59 "2006-02-25T20:05:21Z")
> [@rayh](#): > > There is a way round it. In the UK the police have the power to say that a protest cannot go to a certain place if they fear for the well-being of the public. For example they can direct two rival protests down different streets so they do not meet. Or they can direct a protest away from areas where there might be trouble. > > No one’s right to protest is infringed. They may say we have the right to protest in a certain place, but that can be argued that that is akin to shouting “fire” in a crowded theatre. > > It can also be argued that it is the police’s duty to _prevent_ such trouble occuring. I’m not so sure the police have the same right here. In fact, I went ahead and found ["First Amendment Rights and Police Standards Act](http://www.aclu-nca.org/PDF/EnrolledFirstAmendBill.pdf) enacted by the DC council which prohibits these orders to disperse. Something tells me that this would be the norm rather than the exception pretty much anywhere the Phelps clan chose to picket. Again, I’m with the DC council If it even _hints_ at obstructing protestors over content (as opposed to unlawful conduct), I’m against it. Also, don’t forget that these guys are lawyers. They’ve made a tidy sum off of lawsuits brought about by this sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652/60 "2006-02-25T20:06:34Z")
> [@Linty Fresh](#): > > Something tells me that this would be the norm rather than the exception pretty much anywhere the Phelps clan chose to picket. Picket in America, that is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriotic-bikers-to-fred-phelps-up-yours/345652.md?page=4)