# Patriots owner Robert Kraft charged in Florida prostitution sting **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 22, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034 "2019-02-22T18:26:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/41 "2019-02-24T17:14:09Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > News flash: Rich, fat, old businessman hires hookers. Stop the presses! So we shouldn’t care about engaging the services of enslaved people, right? ‘Cause it’s being done all over. No need to get worked up about it? The fact that Kraft went to get a hand and/or blowjob at some strip mall spa, that he got there by limo, that he can afford other venues- all that is part of the story, but not the key part. The fact that whoever provided the service was a slave, that is key. It is wrong, it needs eradicating, and by giving it attention, by calling out the customers, maybe a dent is made in this trade. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/42 "2019-02-24T17:53:54Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > News flash: Rich, fat, old businessman hires hookers. Stop the presses! > > Meanwhile, how much was it Chump paid at least one porn star? And how many Russian prostitutes did he pay to piss all over him? Pretty sure Stormy Daniels isn’t a victim of human trafficking. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/43 "2019-02-25T12:56:57Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > The fact that whoever provided the service was a slave, that is key. It is wrong, it needs eradicating, and by giving it attention, by calling out the customers, maybe a dent is made in this trade. Maybe we should be arresting the person who enslaved the other person. Prostitution isn’t called the oldest profession for nothing. It “satisfies” a hard wired emotional/physical need that is present in an overwhelming number of people. You’re not making a dent in the trade by catching .01% of the customers in elaborate and costly sting operations. The harder you push, the further underground it goes. That may reduce the size of the “trade”, i.e. the total number of prostitutes may decrease, but the opportunities for abuse will not. Sex workers will just become more marginalized and more vulnerable. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/44 "2019-02-25T14:32:37Z")
So, even if this particular establishment was enslaving its workers, is that something that a customer would know? If so, then yes, they should also be charged with trafficking-related crimes. If no, though, then they should be in the same amount of trouble as anyone who solicits a prostitute. And if it’s impossible to tell which is which, then maybe the penalties for solicitation need to be increased across the board. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/45 "2019-02-25T14:48:05Z")
Guess who’s about to become the largest donor to anti human trafficking organizations? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/46 "2019-02-25T14:56:28Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Reportedly the women weren’t allowed to leave the premises and were forced to work and live there. > > [Orchids of Asia Day Spa: Jupiter Police describe deplorable conditions at spa in Robert Kraft sex sting - CBS News](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/orchids-of-asia-day-spa-jupiter-police-describe-deplorable-conditions-at-spa-in-robert-kraft-sex-sting/) > **“Authorities described how the women worked in deplorable conditions, were lured into the sex trade, and averaged 1,500 men a year.** > > [Robert Kraft Arrest Part of Major Sex-Trafficking Ring Bust: Police](https://www.businessinsider.com/robert-kraft-arrest-sex-trafficking-ring-bust-women-sex-against-will-2019-2) > \*\*The victims were forced to live in the spas for days, sometimes months, “for the purpose of sexual servitude,” according to the charges. Many of them came from China on temporary work visas, believing they’d get legitimate jobs in the US, Vero Beach Police Chief David Currey said in a press conference. > > “These girls are there all day long, into the evening. They can’t leave and they’re performing sex acts,” he said. “Some of them may tell us they’re OK, but they’re not.”\*\* > > These aren’t just women making a choice to go into prostitution and being treated like victims/criminals for bad choices. They’re sex slaves, or at least indentured servants according to law enforcement. > By arresting Johns they are trying to curb the demand, which will hopefully hinder the sex trafficking industry. And it’s not just the criminal charges that will dissuade johns, but the public humiliation and destruction of reputations. Especially for a powerful person like Kraft. There is something in the Business Insider report that caught my eye. Here is the quote: “according to the police, the women averaged 8 clients a day” …”if you do the math that comes to 1500 clients a year with no days off”…??? I’m guessing that Martin County sheriff William Snyder failed math in school. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/47 "2019-02-25T18:19:07Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Maybe we should be arresting the person who enslaved the other person. [They are.](https://www.wptv.com/news/local-news/martin-county/martin-county-sheriff-william-snyder-holds-news-conference-on-8-month-investigation) The target was the traffickers, the johns were just a little extra. A way to put out there that “Hey, if you go to one of these kind of place you may be supporting trafficking and you will get publicly shamed.” ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/48 "2019-02-25T18:28:18Z")
Wonder what other stip-mall massage parlors out there in the greater Miami area which have a billionaire:non-billionaire clientele ratio of 1:71 like this place does? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/49 "2019-02-25T19:37:17Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > There is something in the Business Insider report that caught my eye. Here is the quote: > > “according to the police, the women averaged 8 clients a day” …”if you do the math that comes to 1500 clients a year with no days off”…??? I’m guessing that Martin County sheriff William Snyder failed math in school. It would be 2,920 in a 365 day year. Maybe he divided by 2 somehow? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/50 "2019-02-25T20:58:00Z")
We’re getting into _Silicon Valley_ “what it takes to win the contest and how fast can you do it” territory here. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/51 "2019-02-25T21:14:51Z")
Kraft was formally charged today in Palm Beach County. [SI.com](http://SI.com) has an article which features what the Palm Beach County State’s Attorney said about the case. As the article contains a graphic description of the contents of one of the videos which allegedly features Kraft, I’ll follow the board’s two-click rule for the link. Full article here: [https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/25/robert-kraft-charged-soliciting-prostitution-florida-state-attorney-press-conference](https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/25/robert-kraft-charged-soliciting-prostitution-florida-state-attorney-press-conference) Less explicity, the article states: “Police said that there is video evidence revealing Kraft was involved in sex acts twice at the Orchids of Asia Day Spa. Kraft was seen at the spa on Jan. 19 and Jan. 20, soliciting prostitution, according to prosecutors. The Patriots defeated the Chiefs in the AFC Championship Game in Kansas City on Jan. 20.” I’m guessing that he was at the game that afternoon, so if the allegations are true, I’d guess that he visited the spa in the morning before flying to Kansas City. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/52 "2019-02-25T21:54:48Z")
Interesting updates today: They had been watching the place for months and eventually got warrants to set up hidden cameras inside the massage rooms. Kraft went there twice that were caught on tape; the night before and the morning of the playoff game in Kansas City. He flew to KC after the second visit. He was caught on camera doing sexual acts. He is nailed. The normal thing they do for first time johns caught in a sting is a very small fine and mandatory classes on why prostitution is bad and how it often leads to sex trafficking. So it will cost him like $100 and some time in a diversion program. No biggie except to his pride. My prediction is he will issue a statement that he did indeed engage in those acts but that he had no idea that the women were being trafficked and he is horrified to have taken part in that. He will then announce that he is starting the Robert Kraft Anti-Sex Traffic Fund and donate $10 million to get it up and running. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/53 "2019-02-26T05:59:28Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Maybe we should be arresting the person who enslaved the other person. > > Prostitution isn’t called the oldest profession for nothing. It “satisfies” a hard wired emotional/physical need that is present in an overwhelming number of people. You’re not making a dent in the trade by catching .01% of the customers in elaborate and costly sting operations. > > The harder you push, the further underground it goes. That may reduce the size of the “trade”, i.e. the total number of prostitutes may decrease, but the opportunities for abuse will not. Sex workers will just become more marginalized and more vulnerable. This. People clucking their tongues and agreeing with the johns getting arrested are no different from those who agreed with the harsh NY State drug laws, with stiff penalties even for possession of small amounts of marijuana. Buying black market weed funded bad guys who committed murders. That doesn’t make weed users morally culpable: it’s the government at fault for prohibition laws that create an illicit market and associated violence. The real answer is to legalize, license, and regulate. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/54 "2019-02-26T07:00:50Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > This. People clucking their tongues and agreeing with the johns getting arrested are no different from those who agreed with the harsh NY State drug laws, with stiff penalties even for possession of small amounts of marijuana. Buying black market weed funded bad guys who committed murders. That doesn’t make weed users morally culpable: it’s the government at fault for prohibition laws that create an illicit market and associated violence. The real answer is to legalize, license, and regulate. Legalization, licensing, and regulating this industry violates the 13th Amendment of the US Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/55 "2019-02-26T09:33:37Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Legalization, licensing, and regulating this industry violates the 13th Amendment of the US Constitution. Not if it’s punishment for a crime! ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/56 "2019-02-26T11:27:01Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Legalization, licensing, and regulating this industry violates the 13th Amendment of the US Constitution. I think SlackerInc is talking about legalizing prostitution, not human trafficking. They are, interestingly enough, different things. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/57 "2019-02-26T13:59:54Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I think SlackerInc is talking about legalizing prostitution, not human trafficking. They are, interestingly enough, different things. But that’s the problem. It is **SlackerInc** who does not seem to distinguish between the two. This thread is about a john of human trafficking. And **SlackerInc** is objecting to that person being arrested. But then his reasoning is all based on voluntary prostitution. He keeps mixing the two. I wouldn’t expect anyone to actually think he supports sex slavery. It’s just more making a point that you need to keep the two concepts separate. Though, frankly, I disagree with his logic for voluntary prostitution, too. Arresting the johns (particularly rich ones) is one way to put pressure on them to fight to make prostitution legal. I do agree that making prostitution legal but regulated would make it easier to catch out those using sex slavery, though. If you could ask for a license before partaking, that would help johns actually rat out the sex slavers. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/58 "2019-02-26T14:05:58Z")
If people were being forced into being garbage collectors I’d be against it too. But those who choose it voluntarily are fine. I feel similarly about prostitution. If Kraft visited the Bunny Ranch in Nevada I wouldn’t care. I’m sure it wouldn’t even be a news story. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/59 "2019-02-26T15:26:45Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > This thread is about a john of human trafficking. This thread is about a rich guy going to a massage parlor for a happy ending. Whether or not Kraft had anything resembling an idea that people at his preferred parlor were enslaved is, so far, unproven. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/60 "2019-02-26T15:50:58Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > This thread is about a rich guy going to a massage parlor for a happy ending. Whether or not Kraft had anything resembling an idea that people at his preferred parlor were enslaved is, so far, unproven. Do you imagine him questioning the hostess and masseuses about their life stories and the amount of coercion they are working under while they rub his penis? Maybe he asks for references and researches the people around them for any indications they were operating under duress? I think it’s much more likely that he didn’t give a shit whether his sex worker was enslaved, coerced or just really loves rubbing the penises of ugly, fat white guys for money. As such, he’s part of the problem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034.md?page=4)