# Patriots owner Robert Kraft charged in Florida prostitution sting **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 22, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034 "2019-02-22T18:26:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/61 "2019-02-26T16:01:04Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > If people were being forced into being garbage collectors I’d be against it too. But those who choose it voluntarily are fine. I feel similarly about prostitution. If Kraft visited the Bunny Ranch in Nevada I wouldn’t care. I’m sure it wouldn’t even be a news story. We were able to abolish slavery without making it illegal to farm cotton. There’s no reason we couldn’t eliminate human trafficking while legalizing prostitution. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/62 "2019-02-26T16:26:02Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > This thread is about a rich guy going to a massage parlor for a happy ending. That’s the \*fun \*part to discuss. The \*important \*part is the existence, and apparently prevalence, of slavery and human trafficking in our own country. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/63 "2019-02-26T16:32:27Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We were able to abolish slavery without making it illegal to farm cotton. There’s no reason we couldn’t eliminate human trafficking while legalizing prostitution. Amen. What floors me is why a guy like Kraft would go to such a skeevy place. Verified escorts are generally available for under $500 even after FOSTA/SESTA - chump change for a billionaire. Anyone who hasn’t been living in a cave for the last 20 years knows that massage parlors like the one Kraft was nabbed in use coerced labor. There is no excuse for his behavior. ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/64 "2019-02-26T16:41:30Z")
A few things to note about the definition of human traficking. As soon as sex is involved, the perspective of the person being traficked doesn’t matter anymore. You could have the happiest outgoing person that wants to be there… who will still be considered a victim. Also, there precious few men that get off on being with someone that is clearly not where she wants to be. Even fewer will actually go out in public and look for something like that. Regardless of the background, the vast majority of sex workers will seem to be very much looking for/wanting to work. I really don’t know how people think this works; you think these places are a row of rooms with crying girls chained to their beds? Off course this massage parlor could be the exception. And even if it isn’t the girls could very well have been exploited there. That doesn’t mean clients would know. Verstuurd vanaf mijn moto g(6) met Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/65 "2019-02-26T18:06:05Z")
> [@polar\_bear](#): > > you think these places are a row of rooms with crying girls chained to their beds? > > Off course this massage parlor could be the exception. [That does appear to be the case.](https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/25/us/jupiter-florida-day-spa-living-conditions/index.html) > [@](#): > > “It was clear to us that this was a trafficking case because of the circumstances I enumerated: They’re not leaving, they’re there 24 hours a day, the hygiene was minimal at best, just a bathroom,” Martin County Sheriff William Snyder said. “So we took it upon ourselves to not do what could be the easy way out … and we turned it into a trafficking case.” > Not only did it appear women were living there, he said, but they were cooking on the back steps of the spa and sleeping on the very massage tables where the johns had done their deeds. > There were other worrying signs, Snyder said. The women didn’t have access to transportation, they were moved from location to location and some were averaging as many as eight clients a day. They worked deep into the night with no days off, the sheriff said. > [@](#): > > Refusing to call the women prostitutes, Snyder said the victimized women were coerced, lured to the United States with promises of work as housekeepers or waiters, only to have their passports snatched away once they arrived stateside. > “The problem with these cases is that the coercion is so subtle sometimes that it’s impossible for us to uncover,” he said. “The coercion is not that they’re at gunpoint. The coercion is more subtle, nuanced and more difficult to discern. They may have loved ones in China and they’re afraid if they cooperate. They look at the police here as their enemy.” > [@](#): > > Contrary to beliefs the women are abducted and forced into sex work, Martina Vandenberg, founder of the Human Trafficking Legal Center, says most women often enter the sex work industry unwittingly. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/66 "2019-02-26T18:45:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We were able to abolish slavery without making it illegal to farm cotton. There’s no reason we couldn’t eliminate human trafficking while legalizing prostitution. Have I ever said anything contradicting this? The industry that we are talking about is human trafficking. Prostitution is a tangent. The fact that I referenced the 13th Amendment should make that glaringly obvious. Nobody should try to lampshade this issue by trying to divert attention to the rights of sex workers and abolishing the criminality of prostitution. Let’s talk about the rights of women in the workplace while we’re at it. What makes this a huge story is that this is a place that was taking vulnerable women and forcing them into servitude, and then a powerful, wealthy man who owns the NFL champion football team and is friends with the president repeatedly uses those services. That’s why it’s a scandal. If legalizing prostitution and regulating that industry will help fight human trafficking, I’m all for it. I’m not even opposed if it doesn’t help because I don’t fully understand why it’s criminalized to begin with, aside from wanting to legislate morality. But again I consider that a side issue where this story is concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/67 "2019-02-26T19:51:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That’s the \*fun \*part to discuss. The \*important \*part is the existence, and apparently prevalence, of slavery and human trafficking in our own country. You’re not going to scare guys away from using prostitutes. You’re not going to make prostitution and the associated human trafficking go away by coming down hard on the johns. Want to use this scandal as a jumping off point to actually fixing the problem? I’m all for that. But let’s not act like he’s the cause of all this misery. If prostitution was properly regulated, Kraft would have gotten his _whatever_ from a person who wasn’t being exploited or enslaved. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/68 "2019-02-26T22:11:16Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > You’re not going to scare guys away from using prostitutes. You’re not going to make prostitution and the associated human trafficking go away by coming down hard on the johns. Yeah, that misdemeanor charge is really “coming down hard”. He might, _gasp_, get a fine. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > But let’s not act like he’s the cause of all this misery. Would you like a side of cowardly lion with that strawman? > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > If prostitution was properly regulated, Kraft would have gotten his _whatever_ from a person who wasn’t being exploited or enslaved. But it’s not. So he didn’t. And thus he got his _whatever_ from someone who was exploited and enslaved. And, as an aside, legalizing prostitution doesn’t magically get rid of trafficking. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/69 "2019-02-26T22:28:37Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Yeah, that misdemeanor charge is really “coming down hard”. He might, _gasp_, get a fine. It’s not law enforcement that he has to worry about. It’s what the NFL will do and how this destroys his public image. The biggest damage might be done by the press. Kraft has been one of the most influential owners and serves on a number of committees. If he becomes a stain then he might have to give up some of that by trying to have a bit of a lower profile. I’m not sure what the NFL will do. I don’t think they can or will do anything as dramatic as forcing him to sell the team or anything. And I can’t see them punishing the team itself over this, and of course that wouldn’t be fair and would backfire. But they’re going to have to do something to save face. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/70 "2019-02-26T23:48:14Z")
He might sell the team anyway. He’s 77; who needs the hassle? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/71 "2019-02-27T01:39:59Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > He might sell the team anyway. He’s 77; who needs the hassle? Kraft loves being an NFL owner. He’s won 6 rings, he’s super high profile, he’s one of the top 3 owners in the NFL committees, etc. Any hassle he just passes on to his son Jonathan. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/72 "2019-02-27T04:00:26Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Kraft loves being an NFL owner. He’s won 6 rings, he’s super high profile, he’s one of the top 3 owners in the NFL committees, etc. Any hassle he just passes on to his son Jonathan. Yeah, he could pull a Henry Ford: sell to the son, who would have virtually no say in how to run things. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/73 "2019-02-27T05:17:13Z")
I haven’t been following this very closely, but has there been any explanation of why Kraft went to a massage parlor in Florida? As I understand it, he left just after his second visit to be at the AFC Championship game in Kansas City; surely there must be similar establishments in K.C. So did Kraft have some other reason to be in Florida or did he travel there just for the massages? If it was just for the massages, that suggests he knew of this parlor and had been there before. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/74 "2019-02-27T06:11:56Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I haven’t been following this very closely, but has there been any explanation of why Kraft went to a massage parlor in Florida? As I understand it, he left just after his second visit to be at the AFC Championship game in Kansas City; surely there must be similar establishments in K.C. So did Kraft have some other reason to be in Florida or did he travel there just for the massages? If it was just for the massages, that suggests he knew of this parlor and had been there before. We know it wasn’t a one time thing because he’s on video twice visiting two days in a row. Maybe it was the only time he ever visited but it makes him a repeat customer. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/75 "2019-02-27T13:01:48Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I haven’t been following this very closely, but has there been any explanation of why Kraft went to a massage parlor in Florida? As I understand it, he left just after his second visit to be at the AFC Championship game in Kansas City; surely there must be similar establishments in K.C. So did Kraft have some other reason to be in Florida or did he travel there just for the massages? If it was just for the massages, that suggests he knew of this parlor and had been there before. His Palm Beach mansion is about 10 minutes from that particular massage parlor, so it’s likely he was a regular there. The descriptions that **kenobi 65** linked above say he and [REDACTED] hugged a few times, which strikes me as implying they knew each other at least a bit. Whereas in KC he’d be in the hands of a stranger. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/76 "2019-02-27T13:11:09Z")
Hmmm… The news and commentary, as we are seeing it, is not predominantly “Trafficking ring busted”. The news is Kraft, Kraft, Kraft, Kraft, rub-n-tug, rub-n-tug, rub-n-tug. So it does send the message that outing wealthy patrons will bring attention to the problem. BUT it also says, Public Opinion will care far more about how it affects the wealthy patrons. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/77 "2019-02-27T13:23:02Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Amen. > > What floors me is why a guy like Kraft would go to such a skeevy place… Maybe Tom Brady deflated all of his blowup dolls? Legalization and licensing of prostitution can be done while at the same time combating human trafficking. So a rich guy goes to a massage parlor to get his rocks off. Maybe he’s too damn cheap for a high end escort. I’m puzzled as to why I should care. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/78 "2019-02-27T14:46:52Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > …Whereas in KC he’d be in the hands of a stranger. :golf clap: ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/79 "2019-02-27T19:13:14Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Hmmm… The news and commentary, as we are seeing it, is not predominantly “Trafficking ring busted”. The news is Kraft, Kraft, Kraft, Kraft, rub-n-tug, rub-n-tug, rub-n-tug. > > So it does send the message that outing wealthy patrons will bring attention to the problem. > > BUT it also says, Public Opinion will care far more about how it affects the wealthy patrons. Most of the talk I’m hearing (local sports networks mainly) are focusing on the trafficking and the ordeal the women had gone through. I guess it just depends on what you listen to. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034/80 "2019-02-27T19:51:24Z")
Ironically, you’d think that the sports networks would be the ones focusing on Kraft, since this is only a “sports story” at all because he was involved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting/830034.md?page=5)