# Paul McCartney says: "Yoko didn't break us up" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 31, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446 "2012-10-31T15:36:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/81 "2012-11-02T01:29:26Z")
> [@tomcar](#): > > And for those not in the know, here is how music influence works: > > The root artist makes an unusual provocative sound or music. > A small group of people listen to it. > Those people take parts of that sound and make their own music, or creative output from those bits and pieces they have taken away from it. > You, a member of the ignorant masses never usually hear the original artist, you hear the 2nd generation form that has become more palatable. > > This has been going on for-freakin-ever in music as well as other arts. > > If Yoko had not have married Lennon, you would have never listened to her music or had heard of her. Sonic Youth still would have. So would Bjork. Only, in this case, the masses have yet to pay very much attention to the 2nd generation of musicians who have been influenced by Yoko Ono. The vast majority have no idea who some of these musicians even are. ---
**Author:** ![Mewl\_Dear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Mewl\_Dear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mewl_Dear)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/82 "2012-11-02T01:30:12Z")
So this has turned from she didnt kill the Beatles into squash the chink bitch money grabbing dominant tyrant. Typical dope bullshit. Yoko deserves what she has. More than you have. Do any of you have mirrors? There are way more assholes then opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/83 "2012-11-02T01:33:48Z")
There, there. Go back night-night. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/84 "2012-11-02T01:46:17Z")
> [@Mewl\_Dear](#): > > So this has turned from she didnt kill the Beatles into squash the chink bitch money grabbing dominant tyrant. Typical dope bullshit. Yoko deserves what she has. More than you have. Do any of you have mirrors? > There are way more assholes then opinions. So, because I don’t like Yoko’s music I am some kind of racist misogynist? That’s too bad. I didn’t want to be that. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/85 "2012-11-02T01:53:34Z")
> [@tomcar](#): > > If Yoko had not have married Lennon, you would have never listened to her music or had heard of her. Sonic Youth still would have. So would Bjork. > [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Only, in this case, the masses have yet to pay very much attention to the 2nd generation of musicians who have been influenced by Yoko Ono. The vast majority have no idea who some of these musicians even are. I would be shocked if 1 in 500 Americans alive today have ever heard of Sonic Youth, who never achieved more than a small cult popularity, and Bjork is mostly famous for wearing a bizarre outfit to an awards show 15 years ago, and possibly for her odd accent and/or vocal style. Yoko Ono might well be the finest, kindest, most lovely woman anywhere on Earth today, but to call her a truly influential artist (in any genre or medium) is utterly laughable. ---
**Author:** ![Mewl\_Dear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Mewl\_Dear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mewl_Dear)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/86 "2012-11-02T01:57:03Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > There, there. Go back night-night. I can’t say you are a complete idiot, you are missing vital pieces ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/87 "2012-11-02T02:11:59Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Have you been to any of her exhibits? Visited her work in any galleries? Have you any exposure, at all, to her artwork, upon which you base this dismissal of her career? I think you went the wrong direction with this. “Accomplished artists” doesn’t mean “artist I happen to like.” She made a lot of money as an artist, with a lot of diverse art, and influenced a few bands. That’s accomplished, even if you think all of it was shitty. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/88 "2012-11-02T02:31:54Z")
> [@Mewl\_Dear](#): > > I can’t say you are a complete idiot, you are missing vital pieces **[Mod Hat**]This is out of line for Cafe Society, **Mewl Dear** , as you should well know. Do not insults other posters outside the Pit. Warning issued. **[/Mod Hat]** ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/89 "2012-11-02T02:42:07Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > I would be shocked if 1 in 500 Americans alive today have ever heard of Sonic Youth, who never achieved more than a small cult popularity, and Bjork is mostly famous for wearing a bizarre outfit to an awards show 15 years ago, and possibly for her odd accent and/or vocal style. > > Yoko Ono might well be the finest, kindest, most lovely woman anywhere on Earth today, but to call her a truly influential artist (in any genre or medium) is utterly laughable. Sorry man, thats not how influence works in music. Nobody who listens to music on the radio knows who Suicide was or Kraftwerk…but they influenced it in major ways. Yoko was the Mother of New Wave music. Souxie and The Banshees, The Cure, etc all can be traced to her. Just because Red State Joe hasn’t listened to Sonic Youth has no barring on the conversation. If music isn’t your thing, making comments really makes no sense. If you listen to other types of music cool, but for pop music as an art, Yoko mattered. So did Sonic Youth to what ever degree pop music matters… ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/90 "2012-11-02T02:50:26Z")
> [@tomcar](#): > > If music isn’t your thing, making comments really makes no sense. If you listen to other types of music cool, but for pop music as an art, Yoko mattered. So did Sonic Youth to what ever degree pop music matters… Not that it matters, but I first saw Sonic Youth perform live back in 1990, when I was 18 or 19 years old, a student at the University of Utah, when they were opening for Neil Young & Crazy Horse (along with a second opening band, Social Distortion) and since that time I have caught them at least 4 or 5 other times at various music festivals and venues around the country. I actually enjoy their music quite a bit. That said, to call Sonic Youth (or Yoko Ono, or Bjork) musically influential in any true, meaningful sense of the word is either disingenuous or just plain silly. ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/91 "2012-11-02T03:03:42Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > Not that it matters, but I first saw Sonic Youth perform live back in 1990, when I was 18 or 19 years old, a student at the University of Utah, when they were opening for Neil Young & Crazy Horse (along with a second opening band, Social Distortion) and since that time I have caught them at least 4 or 5 other times at various music festivals and venues around the country. I actually enjoy their music quite a bit. > > That said, to call Sonic Youth (or Yoko Ono, or Bjork) musically influential in any true, meaningful sense of the word is either disingenuous or just plain silly. Having seen Sonic Youth is neither here nor there. So many people have seen them ( I saw them a couple of times before that big tour, was never a big fan really.) Sonic Youth’s influence in alternative music is well known (they influenced hundreds of bands and have introduced several techniques to rock music.) You are just being obtuse and difficult. For christ’s sake, Nirvana counted them as a major influence, which is easy to discern. I hear Sonic’s influence on practically all “alt” bands that play now. Maybe the word “influence” is tripping you up? ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/92 "2012-11-02T03:09:27Z")
> [@tomcar](#): > > I hear Sonic’s influence on practically all “alt” bands that play now. Clearly your discriminating, finely tuned ear for music (and apparently all the world’s _other_ music in relation to the music you are actually listening to at the time) is a wonder beyond my meager comprehension abilities. In the meantime, I will take your word for it that Sonic Youth is more influential than WA Mozart, Robert Johnson and the guy who “invented” the Opa Gangham Style video combined. ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/93 "2012-11-02T03:20:25Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > Clearly your discriminating, finely tuned ear for music (and apparently all the world’s _other_ music in relation to the music you are actually listening to at the time) is a wonder beyond my meager comprehension abilities. > > In the meantime, I will take your word for it that Sonic Youth is more influential than WA Mozart, Robert Johnson and the guy who “invented” the Opa Gangham Style video combined. Wow, now you are putting words in my mouth. Sonic Youth influenced Dinosaur Jr, My Bloody Valentine, Neutral Milk Hotel, Nirvana, Yo La Tango, Pavement, Guided By Voices and countless other indie acts. What to speak of helping to create Grunge and Shoegaze. That makes them very influential. I didn’t say they were more influential then Robert Johnson (or Muddy Waters for that matter,) or Mozart. There is a gray area between being not influential and being the most influential. It is not an all or nothing game. Enough hijacking for one day… ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/94 "2012-11-02T03:55:53Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I have. All the works that I’ve seen have been derivative, banal, badly-executed, or all three at once. Her accomplishments as an artist are on about the same level as her accomplishments as a singer. I’ve seen and heard enough of her work to agree with you. I don’t know her, I never met her, I’m glad that John found someone to happily surrender himself to, but… I think when she met John she knew she’d found her meal ticket. I thought so in 1969, and still do. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/95 "2012-11-02T08:02:54Z")
> [@tomcar](#): > > Sorry man, thats not how influence works in music. Nobody who listens to music on the radio knows who Suicide was or Kraftwerk…but they influenced it in major ways. Yoko was the Mother of New Wave music. Souxie and The Banshees, The Cure, etc all can be traced to her. Just because Red State Joe hasn’t listened to Sonic Youth has no barring on the conversation. > > If music isn’t your thing, making comments really makes no sense. If you listen to other types of music cool, but for pop music as an art, Yoko mattered. So did Sonic Youth to what ever degree pop music matters… Yoko Ono was not the mother of New Wave music. That is overstating her role in the genre by an enormous magnitude. I’ve never even heard anyone try to claim that. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/96 "2012-11-02T11:23:56Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Why be mad at Ono when our hate is more properly directed at the person responsible for… > > simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time…simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time…simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time…simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time…simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time…simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time…simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time…simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time…simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time…simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time…simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time…simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time… simply having a wonderful christmas time… Well, i think they are two separate issues. Yoko deserves blame. The other one deserves death. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/97 "2012-11-02T11:31:18Z")
> [@tomcar](#): > > Delicious Demon off of Life’s Too Good and Give Me Something off of Double Fantasy. The production is extremely similar. The beginning is practically the same. Other than the male vocals in Delicious Demon, the songs are extremely similar. There is very little that separates the two. OK, maybe your trained ear can hear production similarities but AFAICT the beginnings are not remotely “practically the same”. For others to decide: [The Sugarcubes - Delicious Demon (Lifes too good)](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_NRHDaGn2U) [Yoko Ono - Give Me Something (Double Fantasy: Stripped Down)](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cEicadeykw) If Yoko is the Mother of New Wave, it’s your duty to go modify the [wiki article on it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Wave_music). Her name isn’t even mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/98 "2012-11-02T11:52:15Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > OK, maybe your trained ear can hear production similarities but AFAICT the beginnings are not remotely “practically the same”. > For others to decide: > [The Sugarcubes - Delicious Demon (Lifes too good)](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_NRHDaGn2U) > [Yoko Ono - Give Me Something (Double Fantasy: Stripped Down)](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cEicadeykw) > > If Yoko is the Mother of New Wave, it’s your duty to go modify the [wiki article on it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Wave_music). Her name isn’t even mentioned. You can not use the stripped down version for a comparison. The sound is completely different. And the beginnings are different. Thats why it sounds different to you. It has a different feel all together. I don’t edit Wikipedia. It should say it though. No offence, please start another thread if you want to keep arguing this, because I don’t like the nature of this hijack. If you guys want to keep arguing whether Sonic Youth was influential and that Yoko Ono was influential, please set up another thread…or let it go. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/99 "2012-11-02T11:52:37Z")
> [@tomcar](#): > > Having seen Sonic Youth is neither here nor there. So many people have seen them ( I saw them a couple of times before that big tour, was never a big fan really.) Sonic Youth’s influence in alternative music is well known (they influenced hundreds of bands and have introduced several techniques to rock music.) You are just being obtuse and difficult. For christ’s sake, Nirvana counted them as a major influence, which is easy to discern. I hear Sonic’s influence on practically all “alt” bands that play now. Maybe the word “influence” is tripping you up? This is starting to sound a lot like a “No true Scotsman” argument: if you’re REALLY into music, you know Yoko was a big influence. If you don’t know that, you must not be really into music and therefore your opinion is meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/100 "2012-11-02T11:59:09Z")
> [@tomcar](#): > > You can not use the stripped down version for a comparison. The sound is completely different. And the beginnings are different. Thats why it sounds different to you. It has a different feel all together. > I don’t edit Wikipedia. It should say it though. > > No offence, please start another thread if you want to keep arguing this, because I don’t like the nature of this hijack. If you guys want to keep arguing whether Sonic Youth was influential and that Yoko Ono was influential, please set up another thread…or let it go. Quit with the junior modding. If you don’t want to argue the topic that you brought up, then just don’t respond any more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446.md?page=6)