# Paul McCartney says: "Yoko didn't break us up" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 31, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446 "2012-10-31T15:36:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/101 "2012-11-02T12:17:14Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > This is starting to sound a lot like a “No true Scotsman” argument: if you’re REALLY into music, you know Yoko was a big influence. If you don’t know that, you must not be really into music and therefore your opinion is meaningless. Funny you didn’t pick the quote where I listesd all the influence Sonic Youth had. Here it is again: “Wow, now you are putting words in my mouth. Sonic Youth influenced Dinosaur Jr, My Bloody Valentine, Neutral Milk Hotel, Nirvana, Yo La Tango, Pavement, Guided By Voices and countless other indie acts. What to speak of helping to create Grunge and Shoegaze. That makes them very influential. I didn’t say they were more influential then Robert Johnson (or Muddy Waters for that matter,) or Mozart. There is a gray area between being not influential and being the most influential. It is not an all or nothing game. Enough hijacking for one day…” For those who don’t know. Those are some of the biggest bands in Indie Rawk Sonic Youth was a direct influence on them. They also influenced 2 very important popular music genres. It is all there. I am using nothing but reality. ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/102 "2012-11-02T12:19:59Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Quit with the junior modding. If you don’t want to argue the topic that you brought up, then just don’t respond any more. Thats cool with me. You guys can keep posting to try to get the last word in - "Yoko wasn’t influential and neither was Sonic Youth, arf arf arf " ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/103 "2012-11-02T12:28:20Z")
Nobody said anything of the sort. Weren’t you the one whining upthread about people putting words in your mouth? Arf arf arf, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/104 "2012-11-02T12:46:12Z")
There is way too much sniping going on in this thread. Everybody is advised to get back to discussing the actual music without the personal attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Chicagojeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@Chicagojeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicagojeff)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/105 "2012-11-02T13:09:27Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > I would be shocked if 1 in 500 Americans alive today have ever heard of Sonic Youth, who never achieved more than a small cult popularity, and Bjork is mostly famous for wearing a bizarre outfit to an awards show 15 years ago, and possibly for her odd accent and/or vocal style. > > Yoko Ono might well be the finest, kindest, most lovely woman anywhere on Earth today, but to call her a truly influential artist (in any genre or medium) is utterly laughable. Shocking.. the guy in Utah knows not of Sonic Youth.. If you were following post new wave in the mid 80’s.. everyone knew of Sonic Youth.. I don’t see where Tomcar or anyone else has made Yoko Ono out to be a truly transforming music figure.. but several 80’s new wave bands listened.. like it.. used it.. It seems like some sort of bridge that people can’t mentally cross. I’m not a huge Philip Glass guy.. but to try and minimize him is absurd.. BTW Great Sonic Youth concert.. 1987 Cabaret Metro.. northside of Chicago.. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/106 "2012-11-02T13:20:56Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/wp/2012/10/29/paul-mccartney-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/wp/2012/10/29/paul-mccartney-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/) > > Yoko Ono is an accomplished artist and a notable feminist. I thought everyone knew by now Yoko Ono didn’t break the Beatles up. Seriously this is ancient news. Story after essay after book has been written about the Beatles, and the reasons for their breakup are extraordinarily well documented. Nobody who’s ever read two issues of “Rolling Stone” thinks Yoko Ono broke up the Beatles. It’s been 42 years, holy moly. [QUOTE=tomcar] One of Barenaked Ladies’s best-known songs is “Be My Yoko Ono”.. [/QUOTE] Um, have you ever heard the song? This is not a very good quote to bring up in defense of the concept than Ono was an influential musician. “Be My Yoko Ono” is a joke that mocks Ono. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/107 "2012-11-02T13:24:00Z")
> [@tomcar](#): > > One of Barenaked Ladies’s best-known songs is “Be My Yoko Ono”, Wow, not a good example. “Be My Yoko Ono” 1. Is a joke song, 2. Isn’t New Wave, 3. Openly mocks Yoko Ono, and 4. Isn’t one of their best-known songs, unless one’s set of “best known Barnaked Ladies songs” is really big. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/108 "2012-11-02T13:31:35Z")
> [@Chicagojeff](#): > > Shocking.. the guy in Utah knows not of Sonic Youth.. > > If you were following post new wave in the mid 80’s.. everyone knew of Sonic Youth.. I don’t see where Tomcar or anyone else has made Yoko Ono out to be a truly transforming music figure.. but several 80’s new wave bands listened.. like it.. used it.. It seems like some sort of bridge that people can’t mentally cross. I’m not a huge Philip Glass guy.. but to try and minimize him is absurd.. > > BTW Great Sonic Youth concert.. 1987 Cabaret Metro.. northside of Chicago.. Really? Calling her the “Mother of New Wave” isn’t making her out to be a truly transforming music figure? ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/109 "2012-11-02T13:47:03Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Wow, not a good example. > > “Be My Yoko Ono” > > 1. Is a joke song, > 2. Isn’t New Wave, > 3. Openly mocks Yoko Ono, and > 4. Isn’t one of their best-known songs, unless one’s set of “best known Barnaked Ladies songs” is really big. That was a quote from Wiki. I wasn’t using that portion of the quote. I just grabbed the whole chunk. Yoko influenced: Laurie Anderson, Patti Smith, Bjork, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Lydia Lunch, The Cocteau Twins, Glenn Branca, and The B52s. Those are a list of many of the female pioneers of New Wave and female avant garde. If that doesn’t count as influenced, literally, nothing does. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/110 "2012-11-02T14:07:13Z")
> [@tomcar](#): > > Yoko influenced: Laurie Anderson, Patti Smith, Bjork, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Lydia Lunch, The Cocteau Twins, Glenn Branca, and The B52s. Wow. That’s almost like a who’s who of pretentious artsy-fartsiness, except for the B52’s. They’re more like self-conscious, trying too hard to be quirky. If Yoko Ono is responsible for their sound, then this is why people should be hating her, not for breaking up The Beatles. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/111 "2012-11-02T14:11:07Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > If Yoko Ono is responsible for their sound, then this is why people should be hating her, not for breaking up The Beatles. Which, even if it’s true - I like the B-52s myself - would still make her an influential musician. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/112 "2012-11-02T14:16:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Which, even if it’s true - I like the B-52s myself - would still make her an influential musician. 😉 I was thinking more of Laurie Anderson\_I don’t mind the B-52’s\_ but, yes, that does make her influential. You know who else was influential? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/113 "2012-11-02T14:24:33Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Wow, not a good example. > > “Be My Yoko Ono” > > 1. Is a joke song, > 2. Isn’t New Wave, > 3. Openly mocks Yoko Ono, and > 4. Isn’t one of their best-known songs, unless one’s set of “best known Barnaked Ladies songs” is really big. I agree with points 1 and 2. But the song isn’t really making fun of Yoko (she and her son Sean LIKE the song). I think the song is really saying, “Even if Yoko DID break up the Beatles… well, isn’t it sort of WONDERFUL that John Lennon loved someone so much he’d walk away from the Greatest Show on Earth for her? Really, don’t we ALL wish we had someone we loved so much, we’d give up ANYTHING for her?” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/114 "2012-11-02T14:28:33Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I was thinking more of Laurie Anderson\_I don’t mind the B-52’s\_ but, yes, that does make her influential. You know who else was influential? Patti Harrison? ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/115 "2012-11-02T15:22:20Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Wow. That’s almost like a who’s who of pretentious artsy-fartsiness, except for the B52’s. They’re more like self-conscious, trying too hard to be quirky. > If Yoko Ono is responsible for their sound, then this is why people should be hating her, not for breaking up The Beatles. They said she was influentual. They did not say it was a _good_ influence. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/116 "2012-11-02T16:32:05Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I agree with points 1 and 2. But the song isn’t really making fun of Yoko (she and her son Sean LIKE the song). That doesn’t mean it isn’t making fun of her. So she has a sense of humour and can laugh at herself. When they shriek like banshees with bronchitis in imitation of Ono, that’s pretty clearly not meant to play up her skill as a musician. It’s a lighthearted jest, but it’s a jest all the same. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/117 "2012-11-02T16:39:00Z")
> [@tomcar](#): > > And for those not in the know, here is how music influence works: > > The root artist makes an unusual provocative sound or music. > A small group of people listen to it. > Those people take parts of that sound and make their own music, or creative output from those bits and pieces they have taken away from it. > You, a member of the ignorant masses never usually hear the original artist, you hear the 2nd generation form that has become more palatable. > > This has been going on for-freakin-ever in music as well as other arts. > > If Yoko had not have married Lennon, you would have never listened to her music or had heard of her. Sonic Youth still would have. So would Bjork. Where can we buy the records Yoko released before she married John Lennon? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/118 "2012-11-02T20:52:50Z")
> [@tomcar](#): > > If Yoko had not have married Lennon, you would have never listened to her music or had heard of her. Sonic Youth still would have. So would Bjork. As implied above, you know perfectly well that if she hadn’t married Lennon there is very little chance anyone would have listened to her, let alone actually have a record deal. And I still prefer “proof” of an influence coming from the artist in question SAYING they listened and were influenced by an another artist rather than going on self styled expert opinion. I listened to the non-stripped down version and I agree there are similarities. The bass in the Sugarcubes song is similar to Yoko’s beginning vocals, but Bjork vocals are quite different than Yoko’s. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/a_NRHDaGn2U/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-BIAC4AOKAgwIABABGGUgUShLMA8=&rs=AOn4CLDwjE3NQQ9gOC34OQaFmcoC8pUf8Q "The Sugarcubes - Delicious Demon (Lifes too good)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_NRHDaGn2U) [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/FJQ29BoZtfM/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-BIAC4AOKAgwIABABGGUgZShlMA8=&rs=AOn4CLDQHTibFDFdrfE4DABJh4UPNHL1bQ "John Lennon - Double Fantasy - 04 - Give Me Something") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJQ29BoZtfM) Despite that I don’t like Yoko’s music, I am perfectly willing to believe she influenced some artists. “Mother of New Wave” would need a little more evidence. ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/119 "2012-11-02T21:40:26Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > As implied above, you know perfectly well that if she hadn’t married Lennon there is very little chance anyone would have listened to her, let alone actually have a record deal. And I still prefer “proof” of an influence coming from the artist in question SAYING they listened and were influenced by an another artist rather than going on self styled expert opinion. > > I listened to the non-stripped down version and I agree there are similarities. The bass in the Sugarcubes song is similar to Yoko’s beginning vocals, but Bjork vocals are quite different than Yoko’s. > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a\_NRHDaGn2U](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_NRHDaGn2U) > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJQ29BoZtfM](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJQ29BoZtfM) > > Despite that I don’t like Yoko’s music, I am perfectly willing to believe she influenced some artists. “Mother of New Wave” would need a little more evidence. Or she would have achieved bigger success, not being saddled with the “broke up the Beatles” albatross that she has lived with. Who knows. She played with some heavy hitters before Lennon. As far as being the mother of New Wave, not many women challenged mainstream music in the 60s and 70s like she did. Nico would be another main influence (who Ilike alot more.)Yoko was making avant stuff before New and No Waves. I am not a personal fan, but I have to give credit. And I am not sure where to buy her music, possibly Amazon, itunes? ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446/120 "2012-11-02T22:10:23Z")
Here is a great write up about her music. It doesn’t get into who she influenced although it does allude to the fact that she influenced the New Wave movement. If you don’t know what the Trouser Press is, it is one of the original magazines that chronicled the New Wave, punk, power pop, indie, alt, underground movements of the 70s and 80s. They also had a guide that listed all the bands and reviews of the era. > **[Yoko Ono | Trouser Press](https://trouserpress.com/reviews/yoko-ono/)** > > Most listeners, if they have come across Yoko Ono's music at all, remember the squeals of her "bag" music on Side 2 of Live Peace in Toronto 1969, the intense B-sides found on early-'70s John Lennon singles or as Lennon's equal partner on Some Time... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-mccartney-says-yoko-didnt-break-us-up/639446.md?page=7)