# Paul Ryan- compulsive liar? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 2, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401 "2012-09-02T00:00:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/21 "2012-09-02T06:03:34Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > Paul Ryan has seen the writing on the wall regarding unfunded liabilities - entitlement spending - and sees the ensuing trainwreck that could lead to the bankruptcy of federal, state and local governments. > > Ryan wants to slow the rate of growth of the misguided ponzi schemes (Medicare, Social Security, etc..) in an attempt to sustain their viability, not kill them. > > LBJs Great Society has been an abject failure and has only succeeded in creating class warfare guerillas with their socialist entitlement mentality. Ryan’s just trying to ride this train to political success. If he was serious about fixing the government’s financial problems, he admit the truth - we’ve already spent a lot of money we didn’t have and we can’t go back in time to 1980 and unspend it. Thirty years of cutting taxes and not cutting spending is just putting us deeper in the hole. If Ryan was telling us the truth, he’d be telling us we need to raise taxes and not lower them until the national debt is paid off. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/22 "2012-09-02T06:29:23Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > At the risk of sounding like I’m defending him, I wonder if the campaign shares some of the responsibility. I can see Ryan being pressured to play up his athleticism to add some flavor to an otherwise milquetoast ticket. He’s obviously a very fit guy, so there are probably lots of real accomplishments he could tout as opposed to mythical ones. Especially since his marathon was over 20 years ago. I guess we just shouldn’t be amazed when politicians think they can just get away with this stuff. They never learn. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/23 "2012-09-02T07:04:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > He’s obviously a very fit guy, so there are probably lots of real accomplishments he could tout as opposed to mythical ones. Especially since his marathon was over 20 years ago. His _one_ marathon. Didn’t he also imply that he’d run several, and couldn’t precisely remember his best time? ---
**Author:** ![moonshot925](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@moonshot925](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moonshot925)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/24 "2012-09-02T07:11:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Ryan’s just trying to ride this train to political success. If he was serious about fixing the government’s financial problems, he admit the truth - we’ve already spent a lot of money we didn’t have and we can’t go back in time to 1980 and unspend it. Thirty years of cutting taxes and not cutting spending is just putting us deeper in the hole. > > If Ryan was telling us the truth, he’d be telling us we need to raise taxes and not lower them until the national debt is paid off. You have to go back further than 1980. Social Security was created in 1935 and Medicare and Medicaid were created in 1965. Medicare and Social Security together have an unfunded liability of over $30 trillion. On the current path we are headed, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and interest on the national debt will exceed federal revenue by 2030. The only way to avoid going the way of Greece, Portugal and other failed welfare states is by cutting spending drastically. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/25 "2012-09-02T07:19:38Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > You have to go back further than 1980. > > Social Security was created in 1935 and Medicare and Medicaid were created in 1965. > > Medicare and Social Security together have an unfunded liability of over $30 trillion. > > On the current path we are headed, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and interest on the national debt will exceed federal revenue by 2030. > > The only way to avoid going the way of Greece, Portugal and other failed welfare states is by cutting spending drastically. And this still has what to do with Ryan’s propensity for untruths? ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/26 "2012-09-02T07:24:13Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > You have to go back further than 1980. > > Social Security was created in 1935 and Medicare and Medicaid were created in 1965. > > Medicare and Social Security together have an unfunded liability of over $30 trillion. > > On the current path we are headed, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and interest on the national debt will exceed federal revenue by 2030. > > The only way to avoid going the way of Greece, Portugal and other failed welfare states is by cutting spending drastically. This assumes we don’t convert our medical system into one like the Europeans have where we get twice the results for half the cost. Social security has plenty of money and will continue to if the government doesn’t keep robbing it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/27 "2012-09-02T07:33:52Z")
> [@](#): > > And this still has what to do with Ryan’s propensity for untruths? Well, nothing, but that subject was getting a bit stale. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/28 "2012-09-02T07:54:06Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > And this still has what to do with Ryan’s propensity for untruths? It’s an illustration of how dishonesty means nothing to die-hard supporters. Read the comments following any news article that points out these lies. I think these types of low stake “dumb” lies (ie., the marathon time) are deliberate, as a way of gauging just how much they can get a way with; it also provides a diversion from the more important issues, and gives them an opportunity to bash the “libtards” and point out how the “left-wing media” supports Obama’s “socialist agenda”. ---
**Author:** ![moonshot925](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@moonshot925](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moonshot925)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/29 "2012-09-02T08:14:13Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > This assumes we don’t convert our medical system into one like the Europeans have where we get twice the results for half the cost. European healthcare is currently unsustainable. [http://www.ehfcn.org/media/documents/The-future-of-healthcare-in-Europe---report.pdf](http://www.ehfcn.org/media/documents/The-future-of-healthcare-in-Europe---report.pdf) > [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > Social security has plenty of money and will continue to if the government doesn’t keep robbing it. Social Security is in the hole. Running a deficit. > **[Democrats Deny Social Security's Red Ink - FactCheck.org](https://www.factcheck.org/2011/02/democrats-deny-social-securitys-red-ink/)** > > Some senior Democrats are claiming that Social Security does not contribute "one penny" to the federal deficit. That's not true. The fact is, the federal government had to borrow $37 billion last year to finance Social Security, and will need to... ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/30 "2012-09-02T08:51:56Z")
In American politics nowadays, there is positive incentive for politicians to spin glorious yarns that fit with what your core supporters want to believe. The other faction’s base are considered to be all deluded liars who wouldn’t recognize the truth if it bit them in the arse. If they call your man out on a supposed lie, well, that’s just more proof that he’s actually telling the _truth_. And if he should get caught in a misstep, well, the other side are even bigger liars than him, aren’t they? And if we don’t fight fire with fire and defeat those devils, the world will end, won’t it? So, [“we won’t let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers.”](http://www.mediaite.com/online/romney-pollster-we-wont-let-our-campaign-be-dictated-by-fact-checkers/) I’m not necessarily saying both sides are the same… yet. I think the Republicans are doing groundbreaking research in the race to the bottom, but if it succeeds, they won’t be alone there for very long. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/31 "2012-09-02T09:06:31Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > On the current path we are headed, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and interest on the national debt will exceed federal revenue by 2030. That sounds probable, though I haven’t checked your facts. But you can drop off social security from your list- that’s fixable. It’s health care costs in general that are spiralling out of control. I mean sure, you can say that our problem is medical spending, paper clips, major league baseball, rutabaga spending is out of control. But really only medicine is driving the problem. And the most serious attempt to address it was the ACA - health care reform received not a single vote from the obstructionist Republican congress. > [@](#): > > The only way to avoid going the way of Greece, Portugal and other failed welfare states is by cutting spending drastically. You are confused. The analogy in inapt. Those states lack their own currency so they can’t depreciate their way out of their difficulties. Now let’s turn to the Ryan plan hijack. His 2010 plan was a joke. His tax cuts exceeded his specified spending cuts by a large margin. The way he claimed deficit reduction was to make allowances for _unspecified_ spending cuts. Now it’s true that his plan raised taxes for 95% of the population. But the big boys at top received a tax cut – in fact the top 1% had their taxes snipped in half. I know, I know: none of this seems possible: Paul Ryan is such a nice man! ---
**Author:** ![moonshot925](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@moonshot925](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moonshot925)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/32 "2012-09-02T10:02:27Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Now let’s turn to the Ryan plan hijack. His 2010 plan was a joke. His tax cuts exceeded his specified spending cuts by a large margin. The way he claimed deficit reduction was to make allowances for _unspecified_ spending cuts. Now it’s true that his plan raised taxes for 95% of the population. But the big boys at top received a tax cut – in fact the top 1% had their taxes snipped in half. I know, I know: none of this seems possible: Paul Ryan is such a nice man! Ryan’s plan would reduce the federal deficit and public debt as a % of GDP over time. [http://www.pgpf.org/Issues/Fiscal-Outlook/2012/03/032112-Ryan-Budget.aspx](http://www.pgpf.org/Issues/Fiscal-Outlook/2012/03/032112-Ryan-Budget.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/33 "2012-09-02T10:45:17Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > Ryan’s plan would reduce the federal deficit and public debt as a % of GDP over time. > > [http://www.pgpf.org/Issues/Fiscal-Outlook/2012/03/032112-Ryan-Budget.aspx](http://www.pgpf.org/Issues/Fiscal-Outlook/2012/03/032112-Ryan-Budget.aspx) From your cite: (my bolding) > [@](#): > > Compared to the President’s budget, the chairman’s proposal would reduce spending by $5 trillion. However, **budget deficits actually increase over the same ten-year period compared to current law because all of the spending cuts in the chairman’s budget would be offset by the cost of tax cuts**. Indeed, over the next 10 years, his proposal would reduce revenues by $4.4 trillion relative to current law. As a result, revenues under the Ryan proposal would not exceed 19 percent of GDP at any point during the next ten years. By contrast, under current law, revenues, largely fueled by the expiration of the individual tax cuts originally enacted in 2001 and 2003, would rise to 21.2 percent of GDP. And this: > [@](#): > > It is impossible to assess the impact of the chairman’s tax reform plan without more detail about who will pay which rates and how revenues lost from lowering rates will be made up. It’s not about reducing the deficit; it’s all about the tax cuts. Corporate raiding 101. ---
**Author:** ![moonshot925](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@moonshot925](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moonshot925)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/34 "2012-09-02T11:31:13Z")
> [@camille](#): > > It’s not about reducing the deficit; it’s all about the tax cuts. Corporate raiding 101. You forgot to mention this. > [@](#): > > Relative to the alternative fiscal scenario and the President’s budget, Chairman Ryan’s plan would produce substantially lower deficits and debt. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/35 "2012-09-02T12:09:50Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > Ryan’s plan would reduce the federal deficit and public debt as a % of GDP over time. > > [http://www.pgpf.org/Issues/Fiscal-Outlook/2012/03/032112-Ryan-Budget.aspx](http://www.pgpf.org/Issues/Fiscal-Outlook/2012/03/032112-Ryan-Budget.aspx) So has Congressman Ryan decided to join this discussion, or are you just one of his employees? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/36 "2012-09-02T12:15:27Z")
Comparing the Ryan plan to current law is useless because no one supports current law. Current law involves letting all the Bush tax cuts expire and for Medicare provider payments to drop so low that patients won’t be able to find a doctor. granted, that’s a GREAT way to solve our deficit problem. But I doubt very many people support that method. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/37 "2012-09-02T12:27:37Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > You forgot to mention this. That’s funny, because you (and Ryan) forgot to mention _how_. Once again: > [@](#): > > It is impossible to assess the impact of the chairman’s tax reform plan without more detail about who will pay which rates and how revenues lost from lowering rates will be made up. When you come back, bring details. Until then, it’s just a fairy tale for gullible cheapskates. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/38 "2012-09-02T12:34:51Z")
> [@camille](#): > > gullible cheapskates. That’s not a bad description of the Republican base. Well, racist gullible cheapskates. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/39 "2012-09-02T14:02:47Z")
I have a bias too but my impression is people at the top of the GOP know the the most vocal aspects of the right really doesn’t trust or care about fact checking. Are people who think Obama was born in Kenya, who think climate change is a myth but creationism is a fact, who think ACORN stole the 2008 election, etc going to know/care that what they believe is factually incorrect? When did such flagrant dishonesty become common? I remember when Clinton lied about oral sex in the 90s and it was a scandal. Nowadays that caliber of lying is pretty mild. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401/40 "2012-09-02T14:14:55Z")
I predict that this issue is going to seriously damage Ryan during the rest of the campaign. He was under the microscope for falsehoods in his convention speech and this new falsehood comes at the worst possible time. It is exactly the kind of thing that creates a Beltway “narrative”. It’s also the kind of thing that voters can easily understand unlike complex policy claims. It’s also stupid because it serves no purpose at all politically unlike ,say, the false welfare ads that the Romney campaign is pushing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-compulsive-liar/633401.md?page=3)