# Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Jason Chaffetz etc SHOWING DISRESPECT: Avoiding Saying "Trump" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863 "2017-02-15T00:05:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/61 "2017-02-18T06:29:52Z")
If you want to rub people’s faces in the fact that Trump is president, you would say “President Trump.” During the election itself, a lot of Republicans would avoid saying his name. They would avoid saying they support Trump. They’d say the support “the Republican nominee.” Hence, just calling him “the President” comes across as an extension of that. Can we know for sure that’s what’s going on? Not really. We’d have to have data on how often previous presidents were just called “the President” by their own party, and how often they used his name. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/62 "2017-02-18T22:34:23Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If you want to rub people’s faces in the fact that Trump is president, you would say “President Trump.” > > During the election itself, a lot of Republicans would avoid saying his name. They would avoid saying they support Trump. They’d say the support “the Republican nominee.” Hence, just calling him “the President” comes across as an extension of that. > > Can we know for sure that’s what’s going on? Not really. We’d have to have data on how often previous presidents were just called “the President” by their own party, and how often they used his name. Seems like a fairly easy research project. One could look solely at the Senate Majority Leader and the Speaker of the House, when they were both of the same party as the sitting President, and at the Minority leaders (of Senate and House) when not of the same party. My bet would be that there will be no other instances of same-party S & H leaders avoiding saying the name of their same-party President, on as regular and predictable a basis as with Mssrs. McConnell and Ryan. (Because no other heads of the Senate and House have been as frightened of being associated with their same-party President as they.) ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/63 "2017-02-18T22:46:34Z")
I pit myself for having been unclear: the suggested objects of research would simply be the Majority or Minority leaders of the Senate and House–whichever one is of the same party of the sitting President. I don’t feel any obligation to prove my contention that Ryan, McConnell, Chaffetz, and other GOP leaders who are “allied” with Trump are avoiding saying his name, by the way. I’d simply challenge anyone who’s skeptical to listen to the gentlemen in question in all their political pronouncements, going forward. Those who are attempting to stay on the wagon might well make a drinking game of it: Take a drink each time Paul Ryan says “I agree with President Trump” or anything similar. You will stay dry as the Sahara! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/64 "2017-02-18T23:00:54Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Possible gonad sighting. Still too early to know for sure. > We’ll see. We saw, they fucking lied. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/65 "2017-02-19T03:20:57Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Possible gonad sighting. Still too early to know for sure. > We’ll see. There’s this: > [@](#): > > “Trump’s team in disarray, U.S. Senator McCain tells Europe” > [http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-security-mccain-trump-idUSKBN15W210](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-security-mccain-trump-idUSKBN15W210) > > Republican Senator John McCain broke with the reassuring message that U.S. officials visiting Germany have sought to convey on their debut trip to Europe, saying on Friday that the administration of President Donald Trump was in “disarray”. > > McCain, a known Trump critic, told the Munich Security Conference that the resignation of the new president’s security adviser Michael Flynn over his contacts with Russia reflected deep problems in Washington. > > “I think that the Flynn issue obviously is something that shows that in many respects this administration is in disarray and they’ve got a lot of work to do,” said McCain, even as he praised Trump’s defense secretary. > > “The president, I think, makes statements (and) on other occasions contradicts himself. So we’ve learned to watch what the president does as opposed to what he says,” he said. > … ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/66 "2017-02-19T04:00:03Z")
Sad! ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/67 "2017-02-19T20:26:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Sad! Big league! …the question is, how long can Trump pretend he doesn’t realize that Ryan, McConnell, and Chaffetz are treating him with disrespect? Because of course if he lets on that he knows, _he’d have to do something about it_. And he’s too weak to do anything about it. Double sad! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/68 "2017-02-19T22:40:59Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > Many of them did the same thing with Obama. Others called him Mr. Obama instead of Mr. President. I think its about messaging. The Democrats say “the Republicans passed an executive order that banned muslims” because associating all republicans with the actions of their Republican president is good politics. Republicans say “the President” because they want to make it about the office and not the man because the man is so fucking horribly flawed. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/69 "2017-02-19T23:35:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I think its about messaging. > > The Democrats say “the Republicans passed an executive order that banned muslims” because associating all republicans with the actions of their Republican president is good politics. > > Republicans say “the President” because they want to make it about the office and not the man because the man is so fucking horribly flawed. This is exactly it. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/70 "2017-02-20T00:17:37Z")
Well, if they hold office under him, and writhing at his being refuse to say his name like nasty little schoolgirls disrespecting their teacher without the guts to defy her openly, giggling at their veiled defiance, that’s gonna reflect more on them, their pettiness and spite, their cowardice and petulance than on the tyrant they abhor. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/71 "2017-02-20T03:03:43Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Well, if they hold office under him, and writhing at his being refuse to say his name like nasty little schoolgirls disrespecting their teacher without the guts to defy her openly, giggling at their veiled defiance, that’s gonna reflect more on them, their pettiness and spite, their cowardice and petulance than on the tyrant they abhor. no, it isn’t ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/72 "2017-02-20T21:05:54Z")
It kind of reflects on all of them: the won’t-say-his-name “allies” and the Association-Equals-Electoral-Defeat abomination in the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/73 "2017-02-21T05:08:17Z")
If they object to him in any way they should not hold office under him. I have the severest objections to Victor Hugo, but he did not, like Ollivier, join with the government of one he loathed more than any here loathe Trump. And, _the Association-Equals-Electoral-Defeat abomination in the White House_ ? The Republicans would not now be controlling the Houses, the States and all else had it not been for Trump. Certainly he would not have won had the Democrats not nominated Hillary, but he was the Bringer of Victory. They faced defeat without him. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/74 "2017-02-21T12:17:05Z")
I’m going with what someone said earlier: they do not want any auditory record of any of them speaking his name, because such recordings–even though made in completely benign contexts–may be replayed out of context and used against them in future elections. This is the world we live in now. Keep your ass covered at all times. And your mouth shut. Fuck leadership or taking a risk for something you believe. Just huddle in the shadows and see no-hear no-speak no evil, especially about Trump. Protect yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/75 "2017-02-21T13:18:48Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I’m going with what someone said earlier: they do not want any auditory record of any of them speaking his name, because such recordings–even though made in completely benign contexts–may be replayed out of context and used against them in future elections. This is the world we live in now. Keep your ass covered at all times. And your mouth shut. Fuck leadership or taking a risk for something you believe. Just huddle in the shadows and see no-hear no-speak no evil, especially about Trump. Protect yourself. And in some cases, see your doctor about having your medications adjusted. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/76 "2017-02-21T20:06:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And in some cases, see your doctor about having your medications adjusted. > Regards, > Shodan That would work better if she weren’t so obviously correct. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/77 "2017-02-21T20:22:06Z")
I’m sorry but much of this thread is total nonsense. Afraid of saying his name? Jesus. The reason people say “the President” is because they’ve been saying that forever. They called Obama “The President” and they called G.W. Bush “the President” and they called Clinton “the President” and on and on. It’s a normal, long-entrenched convention of American English. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/78 "2017-02-21T20:31:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I would have assumed it was the opposite. Referring to Trump as just “the President” confers higher status to him by emphasizing his unique status. Calling him President Trump makes it sound like you have to specify which president you’re talking about. I just refer to him as “the America-hating shitstain currently befouling the Oval Office.”\* That seems to get the ideal across. \*(Sometimes, I substitute “fuckstick” for “shitstain.” I don’t want to become trite and predictable, so I like to mix it up now and then.) ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/79 "2017-02-21T23:30:42Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’m sorry but much of this thread is total nonsense. Afraid of saying his name? Jesus. > > The reason people say “the President” is because they’ve been saying that forever. They called Obama “The President” and they called G.W. Bush “the President” and they called Clinton “the President” and on and on. It’s a normal, long-entrenched convention of American English. I think you may be deliberately misunderstanding the issue. Sure, “the President” is common usage. What is _un_common is to carefully avoid EVER saying “President Trump”…even when it would be natural to do so–grammatically, or to make the sense of what’s being said clear. One example: the long recital by Mitch McConnell, on an ABC News 1-29 appearance, of the history of Supreme Court nominee-treatment under various presidents. He names “President Clinton” and President Obama" and after a while mentions “the President”, making it unclear which President he means—because he knows that any audio of him saying “President Trump” with something other than criticism, can and will be used against him in future elections: > [@](#): > > MCCONNELL: Well, look, let me tell you what ought to happen. President Clinton, in his first term, had two Supreme Court nominees, Ginsburg and Breyer. There was no filibuster. And for your listeners, there was no requirement that you get 60 votes to consider them. President Obama had two Supreme Court nominees in his first term. There was no filibuster against them. We’re in the first term of a new president. What we’re hoping is that our Democratic friends in the minority in the Senate, as we were during those same comparable periods under Clinton and Obama, will treat this nominee in the same way and give him an up-or-down vote. > If cloture, that is, if getting 60 votes is required, that happened with Justice Alito; a Democratic minority insisted on that. Cloture was invoked. In other words, he was given the opportunity to have an up-or-down vote on the final nomination. > So it’s way too early for me to tell you or anybody else what we might do. I think how this is handled depends on our Democratic friends. Let me tell you what I do think we’ll get. I think we’re going to get a really outstanding nominee, who will be very hard to argue against because the president [[[[WHICH President?!?!??!?]]]] has been working on this for some time. ['This Week' Transcript 1-29-17: Sean Spicer, Sen. Mitch McConnell, and Robert Gates - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-29-17-sean-spicer-sen-mitch/story?id=45112815) It’s not as though it’s impossible to figure out what President he was referencing–it’s just that it would have been a lot clearer if he’d simply said “President Trump.” But Mitch McConnell is too canny a politician to say “President Trump,” given that he wasn’t uttering a criticism of Trump. And this is an observable pattern. The GOP Senators and Representatives who are presenting themselves as allies of Trump, are being very, very, very careful that no sound bites of them speaking of “President Trump” with approval will be available. _Because they know such sound bites will be used against them._ Listen, and you’ll find that this is what is happening. And it isn’t random. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863/80 "2017-02-21T23:51:04Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And in some cases, see your doctor about having your medications adjusted. > > Regards, > Shodan > [@Sherrerd](#): > > That would work better if she weren’t so obviously correct. I took Shodan’s comment to mean that Ryan, McConnell, _et al_, should have \*\*their \*\*medications adjusted. Which is clearly the case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-jason-chaffetz-etc-showing-disrespect-avoiding-saying-trump/779863.md?page=5)