# Paul Ryan, Radical Pro-Lifer **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-radical-pro-lifer/631376 "2012-08-13T14:17:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-radical-pro-lifer/631376/41 "2012-08-14T09:01:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > SSM is not afforded, generally. That distinction will soon be an anachronism. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-radical-pro-lifer/631376/42 "2012-08-14T10:16:27Z")
I gather there’s an important distinction to be made between: A. “The Feds are being too oppressive - we assert state’s rights to increase the freedom of our citizens.” and B. “The Feds are not being oppressive enough - we assert state’s rights to limit the freedom of our citizens.” The “B” version gets used, I gather, some 95%+ of the time. Actually, aside from some scattered and halfhearted attempts at medical marijuana, I can’t offhand think of a recent “A” example. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-radical-pro-lifer/631376/43 "2012-08-14T10:59:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The “B” version gets used, I gather, some 95%+ of the time. Actually, aside from some scattered and halfhearted attempts at medical marijuana, I can’t offhand think of a recent “A” example. The whole same sex marriage example, as discussed before. Besides that, it happens all the time. Mass. and Conn., for instance, give disabled people more protection against discrimination that the federal government doesn’t. Iowa makes it easier to prove employment discrimination on the basis of gender than the feds. California bans discrimination based on marital status. New Mexico gives someone accused of a crime more rights. Tennessee makes it harder for the police to search your car, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-radical-pro-lifer/631376/44 "2012-08-14T11:36:26Z")
A bill stating that fertilized eggs are human beings is about as intelligent as a bill banning the use of pillows in support of dust mite rights. I wonder if Ryan, Bachmann or any supporters of this bill can spell Zygote. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-radical-pro-lifer/631376/45 "2012-08-14T11:43:48Z")
Missed edit. In [Ryan’s essay](http://paulryan.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=207539), he actually compares the mindset of pro-choice, or legal abortions, to the mindset of the Dred Scott v. Sanford case. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > "Like the Dred Scott decision, this opinion has wounded America and solved nothing. It has set good people on all sides against each other, fueled a culture war, split churches, soured politics, and greatly strained civil dialogue. A recent Gallup poll showed that 51 percent of Americans consider themselves pro-life, 42 percent are pro-choice, and 7 percent not sure.1 " Sounds like he gets his quotes from the same place Palin does. At least his equal 100! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-radical-pro-lifer/631376/46 "2012-08-14T13:46:43Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I gather there’s an important distinction to be made between: > > A. “The Feds are being too oppressive - we assert state’s rights to increase the freedom of our citizens.” > > and > > B. “The Feds are not being oppressive enough - we assert state’s rights to limit the freedom of our citizens.” On the issue of abortion, it boils to down to how one defines “citizens”. **Locrian** : I don’t doubt those poll numbers. What he leaves out is that there is is a good chunk of the electorate who consider themselves “pro-life” but still don’t want to make all abortions illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-radical-pro-lifer/631376/47 "2012-08-14T14:13:29Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > A bill stating that fertilized eggs are human beings is about as intelligent as a bill banning the use of pillows in support of dust mite rights. > > I wonder if Ryan, Bachmann or any supporters of this bill can spell Zygote. Yes. Z-Y-G-O-T-E. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-radical-pro-lifer/631376/48 "2012-08-14T14:54:02Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > \*The Crazy 27%: the approximate percentage of the population that never stopped supporting Nixon during Watergate, never stopped approving of the job Bush Jr. was doing as President during the last years of his presidency, etc. Basically, the percentage of the population that will never abandon a candidate, position, etc. because it’s too far right. What exactly was “too far right” about Nixon after Watergate and GWB during the last years of his presidency? Was it TARP or the auto bailouts? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-radical-pro-lifer/631376/49 "2012-08-14T14:58:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > On the issue of abortion, it boils to down to how one defines “citizens”. Even _if_ one chooses to include a fetus in that definition, the issue is what to do when citizens have interests that are in conflict. After all, a trespasser may be a citizen, but that doesn’t mean a homeowner citizen has to tolerate a trespasser’s unwanted presence. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-radical-pro-lifer/631376/50 "2012-08-14T15:48:32Z")
The [National Catholic Reporter](http://ncronline.org/news/politics/which-presidential-candidate-truly-pro-life) argues that in the presidential race, the true pro-life candidate is not who you think it is: > [@](#): > > For example, Obama’s Affordable Care Act does not pay for abortions. In Massachusetts, Romney’s health care law does. Obama favors, and included in the Affordable Care Act, $250 million of support for vulnerable pregnant women and alternatives to abortion. This support will make abortions much less likely, since most abortions are economic. Romney, on the other hand, has endorsed Wisconsin Republican Paul Ryan’s budget, which will cut hundreds of millions of dollars out of the federal plans that support poor women. The undoubted effect: The number of abortions in the United States will increase. On these facts, Obama is much more pro-life than Romney. > > But let’s not stop there. Obama does not financially profit from the abortion industry. Romney does. Bain Capital, in the time Romney was listed as its legal head and even when he was attending Bain board meetings, was an owner of Stericycle, a major disposer of the dead bodies of aborted children in the United States. (See: Romney Invested in Medical-Waste Firm That Disposed of Aborted Fetuses, Government Documents Show.) Bain owned a share of Stericycle until 2004, selling its interest for a profit in the tens of millions of dollars. We can parse what Romney’s 1999 “retroactive retirement” from Bain means, but he still gets an annual payout from the firm. To the extent those dollars are part of Bain’s Stericycle profits, a strong argument exists that Romney is an abortion profiteer. How pro-life is that? This is similar to an argument in a current GD thread on abortion – the “real” pro-lifer is not the one that wants to put women and doctors in jail, or in back alleys. They are instead the ones who work to make abortion as unnecessary, and therefore as rare, as possible. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-radical-pro-lifer/631376/51 "2012-08-14T16:27:21Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Even _if_ one chooses to include a fetus in that definition, the issue is what to do when citizens have interests that are in conflict. After all, a trespasser may be a citizen, but that doesn’t mean a homeowner citizen has to tolerate a trespasser’s unwanted presence. True. But he can’t drag someone onto his property and then shoot him dead for trespassing. Well, maybe they can do that in Texas, but not most places. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-radical-pro-lifer/631376/52 "2012-08-14T16:49:50Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > What exactly was “too far right” about Nixon after Watergate and GWB during the last years of his presidency? Was it TARP or the auto bailouts? At that point, it was that Nixon had proven himself a crook, and Bush had proven himself a total failure. Those that continued to support Nixon and Bush did so because their ideologies rendered any other option unacceptable. The fact that Nixon was a crook and Bush had made a mess of the country in ways that were obvious to the other 73% were secondary to them. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-radical-pro-lifer/631376/53 "2012-08-15T21:12:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > True. But he can’t drag someone onto his property and then shoot him dead for trespassing. Well, maybe they can do that in Texas, but not most places. Regardless of how they got onto your property, their continued stay on your property is at your pleasure, as I understand it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-radical-pro-lifer/631376.md?page=2)