# Paul Ryan steals lunch (story) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 7, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111 "2014-03-07T14:57:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/181 "2014-03-18T19:42:31Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > You may be right. Tell me, did I produce evidence that demonstrated that the map was misleading, or did I just do a handwaving sort of thing? As best I recall, your evidence was the reasoning I gave above – I certainly wouldn’t call it “handwaving,” a term that seems to denote a dismissal without solid grounds for doing so. As I remember it, you explained that while the map’s red areas outnumbered the blue ones dramatically, that didn’t mean that the numbers of _people_ in the blue areas were fewer than those in the red areas. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/182 "2014-03-18T20:26:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As best I recall, your evidence was the reasoning I gave above – I certainly wouldn’t call it “handwaving,” a term that seems to denote a dismissal without solid grounds for doing so. As I remember it, you explained that while the map’s red areas outnumbered the blue ones dramatically, that didn’t mean that the numbers of _people_ in the blue areas were fewer than those in the red areas. As best as you can recall? So your cite as to why we should disregard this map is your vague recollection of something I said years ago that you haven’t actually looked up. O-_kay_, then. At any rate, if the election you’re thinking of was a Presidential election, we all knew the totals that sufficed to dismiss the map. Say it was 2004: 50.75% Bush to 48.25% Kerry is what defines the results, not an overwhelming sea of red swamping some little bitty pieces of blue. So by all means bring some numbers to the table to show why we should disregard the map. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/183 "2014-03-19T00:37:46Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > As best as you can recall? So your cite as to why we should disregard this map is your vague recollection of something I said years ago that you haven’t actually looked up. > > O-_kay_, then. > > At any rate, if the election you’re thinking of was a Presidential election, we all knew the totals that sufficed to dismiss the map. Say it was 2004: 50.75% Bush to 48.25% Kerry is what defines the results, not an overwhelming sea of red swamping some little bitty pieces of blue. > > So by all means bring some numbers to the table to show why we should disregard the map. What numbers are necessary – the population density and relative sizes of New York. City and Mississippi? Because my objection to that map is grounded in that disparity – the fact that you pointed out a similar flaw years ago in another map is of no real import. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/184 "2014-03-19T03:49:45Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Then the thing for libertarians to do would be move over there and set up their own government - not for the whole country, of course, but just for that part that they wished to occupy. An anarchic environment is, at the very least, an opportunity for libertarians to put their theories to the test, because there’s effectively no pre-existing government to stop them from doing so. American Libertarians in Somalia would do . . . somewhat less well and even less good than [Cartman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatbeard). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/185 "2014-03-19T17:31:51Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I was talking about good and evil. If everyone in the conversation believes in God, excluding him from a conversation about what is good and what is evil seems nonsensical. No one said anything about excluding God from a conversation. You cited two of the commandments given to Israel and seemed to state that they were expressions of the will of God. Do you believe that the other commandments of the Old Testament are equally expressive of the will of God for US citizens today? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/186 "2014-03-19T17:46:48Z")
And again! \* Snap!\* ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/187 "2014-03-19T18:00:42Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > […] So _my_ idea is that we take other people’s ideas and just make up “points” about them!’ That’s easy for him. He could just give us a point off the top of his head. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/188 "2014-03-27T20:40:17Z")
Update: Paul Ryan is currently on an apology tour for his “inarticulate” commens about men in “inner cities”. The latest stop was Bill O’Reilly–because where better to apologize then a platform adored by the right-wing base he originally made the comments for? During the [interview](http://www.salon.com/2014/03/27/paul_ryan%E2%80%99s_endless_%E2%80%9Ci_am_not_a_racist%E2%80%9D_tour/), Ryan discussed a conversation he had with Congressional Black Caucus leader Barbara Lee: > [@](#): > > “She does not believe that I have these views,” he told O’Reilly. “She knows me well, and she knows that I don’t have a racist bone in my body.” > > O’Reilly wasn’t satisfied: “Then why did she imply you did?” > > “Well, you’ll have to ask Barbara that,” Ryan averred. This is where O’Reilly went off: [QUOTE=Bill O’Reilly] It’s intentional. With all due respect to you, because I think you’re a good man, they don’t want a conversation, they don’t want to solve the problem. These race hustlers make a big living, and they get voted into office, by portraying their constituents as victims. And it’s all your fault, and it’s my fault, it’s the rich people’s fault, and it’s the Republicans’ fault — it’s everybody’s fault except what’s going on. And what’s going on, as you know, is the dissolution of the family, and you don’t have proper supervision of children, and they grow up with no skills, and they can’t read and speak, and they have tattoos on their neck, and they can’t compete in the marketplace, and that’s what’s going on! [/quote] This is the moment where Paul “not a racist bone in my body” Ryan might have stepped up and said something. As Salon writer Joan Walsh suggests, he could have said something like “Look, Bill, Barbara and I disagree on these issues, but she is not a ‘race hustler,’ she’s a strong public servant looking out for her constituents.” So, Ryan fails the test again. The evidence is sure piling up… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/189 "2014-03-27T20:52:00Z")
That’s just like Santorum claiming he really said “I don’t want to make \*\*\*blah \*\*\*people’s lives better by giving them somebody else’s money.” Good luck with that, Paul. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/190 "2014-03-27T22:37:31Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Somalia sounds like a libertarian paradise, doesn’t it? And a Second Amendment paradise, too. A well-armed society, which I’m sure is a _very_ polite society, amirite? 😉 From all I’ve heard, South Central LA ain’t very polite . . . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/191 "2014-03-27T22:38:48Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I was talking about good and evil. If everyone in the conversation believes in God, excluding him from a conversation about what is good and what is evil seems nonsensical. Not necessarily. Even to a believer, I should hope, what’s right is right because it’s right, not because it’s God’s law; rather, it’s God’s law because it’s right, not the other way around. Which means God can safely be omitted from the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/192 "2014-03-28T09:33:38Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > So, Ryan fails the test again. The evidence is sure piling up… What?? According to Ryan, Lee implied Ryan was a racist, though she knows it not to be true. But he should still defend Lee against O’Riley’s accusation that she is a “race hustler,” – that is, a person who uses accusations of racism to advance her agenda regardless of the truth of those accusations. Why, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/193 "2014-03-28T11:39:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But he should still defend Lee against O’Riley’s accusation that she is a “race hustler,” – that is, **a person who uses accusations of racism to advance her agenda regardless of the truth of those accusations**. Funnily enough, that description perfectly matches what O’Reilly did there. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/194 "2014-03-28T12:08:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What?? > > According to Ryan, Lee implied Ryan was a racist, though she knows it not to be true. > > But he should still defend Lee against O’Riley’s accusation that she is a “race hustler,” – that is, a person who uses accusations of racism to advance her agenda regardless of the truth of those accusations. > > Why, exactly? Ryan did say something that can be reasonably interpreted as racist, based on the past history and use of similar language. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/195 "2014-03-28T13:50:37Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Funnily enough, that description perfectly matches what O’Reilly did there. Yes, he did. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/196 "2014-03-28T13:52:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Ryan did say something that can be reasonably interpreted as racist, based on the past history and use of similar language. I don’t agree that an appropriate standard is basing a judgement of racism on others’ past history and others’ use of similar language. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/197 "2014-03-28T14:03:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not necessarily. Even to a believer, I should hope, what’s right is right because it’s right, not because it’s God’s law; rather, it’s God’s law because it’s right, not the other way around. Which means God can safely be omitted from the discussion. To a believer, that’s like saying, “that direction is north because it’s north, not because that’s the direction the North Pole is from here, so we can drop the North Pole from the discussion.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/198 "2014-03-28T14:07:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t agree that an appropriate standard is basing a judgement of racism on others’ past history and others’ use of similar language. For a statement, it’s perfectly reasonable. It doesn’t say anything about Ryan as a person (except for, IMO, his later reaction in the aftermath), but what he said can be reasonably interpreted as a racist statement. Just like when Howard Cosell called that football player a “little monkey” – he may not have been meant it as racist, but it’s reasonable to interpret that as a racist statement. In both cases, the accused should have apologized, not reacted defensively by attacking their accusers. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/199 "2014-03-28T14:09:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What numbers are necessary – the population density and relative sizes of New York. City and Mississippi? > > Because my objection to that map is grounded in that disparity – the fact that you pointed out a similar flaw years ago in another map is of no real import. Look, what we have here is your claim, unsupported by link, of something you remember me saying. It’s pretty obvious how the map we were talking about could have been shown to be meaningless: comparison of the red and blue on the map with national vote totals, widely available to all, and almost surely present in that thread. Those totals would have been what demonstrated the falsity of the impression the map was making. Go thou and (find some numbers that will) do likewise. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111/200 "2014-03-28T14:16:11Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > To a believer, that’s like saying, “that direction is north because it’s north, not because that’s the direction the North Pole is from here, so we can drop the North Pole from the discussion.” I should hope believers ain’t **that** stupid! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-steals-lunch-story/683111.md?page=11)