# Paul Ryan wants to phase out medicare again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292 "2016-11-17T22:20:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/21 "2016-11-18T18:06:20Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > If Social Security were privatized this wouldn’t be an issue. Explain? > [@](#): > > And wasn’t Obamacare supposed to solve all medical cost issues? Obamacare didn’t affect Medicare. From [Paul Krugman, NYTimes](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/opinion/the-medicare-killers.html?smid=tw-share) today (abridged): > [@](#): > > During the campaign, Donald Trump often promised to be a different kind of Republican, one who would represent the interests of working-class voters who depend on major government programs. “I’m not going to cut Social Security like every other Republican and I’m not going to cut Medicare or Medicaid,” he declared, under the headline “Why Donald Trump Won’t Touch Your Entitlements.” > > It was, of course, a lie. The transition team’s point man on Social Security is a longtime advocate of privatization, and all indications are that the incoming administration is getting ready to kill Medicare, replacing it with vouchers that can be applied to the purchase of private insurance. Oh, and it’s also likely to raise the age of Medicare eligibility. > > So it’s important not to let this bait-and-switch happen before the public realizes what’s going on. > > Three points in particular need to be made as loudly as possible. > > First, the attack on Medicare will be one of the most blatant violations of a campaign promise in history. > … > …second point: While Medicare is an essential program for a great majority of Americans, it’s especially important for the white working-class voters who supported Mr. Trump most strongly. Partly that’s because Medicare beneficiaries are considerably whiter than the country as a whole, precisely because they’re older and reflect the demography of an earlier era. > … > …third point. People like Paul Ryan, the speaker of the House, have often managed to bamboozle the media into believing that their efforts to dismantle Medicare and other programs are driven by valid economic concerns. They aren’t. It has been obvious for a long time that Medicare is actually more efficient than private insurance, mainly because it doesn’t spend large sums on overhead and marketing, and, of course, it needn’t make room for profits. What’s not widely known is that the cost-saving measures included in the Affordable Care Act, a.k.a. Obamacare, have been remarkably successful in their efforts to “bend the curve” — to rein in the long-term rise in Medicare expenses… Even if you’re too young to have this affect you ini the immediate future, when your parents lose Medicare and can’t afford private insurance, even with subsidies, who is going to pay their way? ETA: > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > …See - lot’s of solutions. Every time you use an apostrophe to make a plural, a puppy dies. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/22 "2016-11-18T18:19:04Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I’d be surprised if the payment was enough to enable a person to buy insurance in the USA. I think he’s planning his escape from Trumpland. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/23 "2016-11-18T18:20:19Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Explain? > Obamacare didn’t affect Medicare. Of course it did. How else did it extend the solvency of medicare by 10 years? For one thing it got rid of the extra money we were paying for Medicare part C. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/24 "2016-11-18T18:24:11Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Of course it did. > > How else did it extend the solvency of medicare by 10 years? > > For one thing it got rid of the extra money we were paying for Medicare part C. It wasn’t supposed to “solve all medical cost issues.” That would be a naive pov indeed, and you’re not that, are you? Oh, it was sarcasm. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/25 "2016-11-18T18:25:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I think he’s planning his escape from Trumpland. Luckily, I have over 20 years to go before I worry about Medicare. I just know it can’t be used to receive medical treatment outside of the US. Doesn’t hurt to begin retirement planning early 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/26 "2016-11-18T18:59:03Z")
So, how many millions are you planning to save for your medical needs in retirement? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/27 "2016-11-18T19:11:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So, how many millions are you planning to save for your medical needs in retirement? What does that have to do with anything? I know that people cannot use Medicare to receive treatment overseas as Medicare is set up now. I simply wondered if any of the new plans being floated around would allow it. Not sure what my retirement savings would have to do with that. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/28 "2016-11-18T20:34:24Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > What does that have to do with anything? > > I know that people cannot use Medicare to receive treatment overseas as Medicare is set up now. > > I simply wondered if any of the new plans being floated around would allow it. > > Not sure what my retirement savings would have to do with that. I think that Meciare Part C plans can cover pretty much anything as long as it covers AT LEAST what medicare covers. So there might have been one out there that used the extra money to cover foreign medical care. ISTM that having our retirees retire to Thailand and the Philippines would greatly reduce our medicare liability, so would senior citizen bloodsport but I digress. ISTM that if I was a private insurer and I could move you to a low medical cost jurisdiction while getting a capitated fee based on US medical costs, I could make a fucking fortune. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/29 "2016-11-18T20:51:02Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Explain? > Obamacare didn’t affect Medicare. Actually, it did, but in a _good_ way - prior to the ACA, the Medicare trust fund was set to run out of money in 2017. Next year, for those keeping score at home. Now it’s not expected to run out until 2028. Also, Obamacare should affect Medicare’s bottom line in another positive way: you don’t have nearly as many people reaching 65 who’ve put off needed medical care for years due to affordability issues. So you shouldn’t have as many people incurring a whole bunch of medical costs as soon as they turn 65. > [@](#): > > Even if you’re too young to have this affect you ini the immediate future, when your parents lose Medicare and can’t afford private insurance, even with subsidies, who is going to pay their way? And on the whole, elderly people are sicker than the rest of us. There’s a good reason why they have a hard time getting insurance in the private market. A big single-payer plan like Medicare that spreads the costs of their care over the entire population makes the most sense. And it’s been working well for \>50 years now. Paul Ryan isn’t trying to solve a problem; he’s trying to get rid of a program that helps millions of people, but, as an Ayn Rand disciple, he’s ideologically opposed to. That’s our GOP: putting principles ahead of people. Fuck that shit. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/30 "2016-11-18T21:40:12Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Kind of off subject, but the longer I live the more I believe the whole ‘competition brings down prices’ isn’t all that true. Instead I see businesses matching prices with each other in an upward trend rather than trying to compete with lower prices. So if you sell widgets and your sole competitor is charging $4 per widget, and you can charge $3, well, why aren’t you charging $4 also? Why start a price war? You both lose then, right? I think the industry caught on to this after the cereal price wars a few decades ago. Cartels are not new. And not _all_ bad from the view of pure efficiency \* ( although crushing the little competitor and not offering choice; and sitting on invention ); they maintain a fair cost and fair wages by preventing a race to the bottom. Very popular in the 19th and early 20th centuries, there was an international **[Lightbulb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel)** cartel in the 1920s. And of course, for centuries local shops, manufacturers, and professions each conspired with their alleged competitors together to maintain the same prices. It was the natural thing to do. - Legal services don’t compete on the cheapest price. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/31 "2016-11-18T23:26:46Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So, how many millions are you planning to save for your medical needs in retirement? > [@Slash1972](#): > > What does that have to do with anything? > > I know that people cannot use Medicare to receive treatment overseas as Medicare is set up now. > > I simply wondered if any of the new plans being floated around would allow it. > > Not sure what my retirement savings would have to do with that. If Medicare is abolished we’ll be back to the situation the prevailed in 1965 - it was virtually impossible for anyone over the age of 65 to obtain private health insurance. That is WHY Medicare was created in the first place. If that happens you will have to pay for all your medical care out of your own pocket with zero help. Can you afford that? Are you even aware of how much the _average_ person costs in healthcare from age 65 to death? Keep in mind, too, the post-65 life expectancy is greater than it was 50 years ago, so that’s even _more_ money you’ll need than back in the bad old days. In all my years I have met exactly ONE family that could confidently state they could afford to pay for all their healthcare on their own. Their net worth is measured with 10 digit numbers. How much money do YOU have? How much money do you think you’ll have in 20 years? Abolish Medicare and that means you will have an additional **55 million** uninsured people. The insurance companies will not want them for the same reasons they did not want them in 1965. That, along with a rollback of the ACA, would mean about 100,000,000 to 120,000,000 Americans will no longer have health insurance. _ **How is dumping 1/3 of the population out of the health care system in any way good?** _ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/32 "2016-11-18T23:42:03Z")
Darwinism. Thinning the herd. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/33 "2016-11-19T00:11:51Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > That, along with a rollback of the ACA, would mean about 100,000,000 to 120,000,000 Americans will no longer have health insurance. _ **How is dumping 1/3 of the population out of the health care system in any way good?** _ \ Will it help the very wealthy become even more wealthy in the short term? Then it is good. \ ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/34 "2016-11-21T01:11:17Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > If Medicare is abolished we’ll be back to the situation the prevailed in 1965 - it was virtually impossible for anyone over the age of 65 to obtain private health insurance. That is WHY Medicare was created in the first place. > > If that happens you will have to pay for all your medical care out of your own pocket with zero help. Can you afford that? Are you even aware of how much the _average_ person costs in healthcare from age 65 to death? Keep in mind, too, the post-65 life expectancy is greater than it was 50 years ago, so that’s even _more_ money you’ll need than back in the bad old days. > > In all my years I have met exactly ONE family that could confidently state they could afford to pay for all their healthcare on their own. Their net worth is measured with 10 digit numbers. > > How much money do YOU have? > > How much money do you think you’ll have in 20 years? > > Abolish Medicare and that means you will have an additional **55 million** uninsured people. The insurance companies will not want them for the same reasons they did not want them in 1965. > > That, along with a rollback of the ACA, would mean about 100,000,000 to 120,000,000 Americans will no longer have health insurance. _ **How is dumping 1/3 of the population out of the health care system in any way good?** _ That’s some fine information you decided to just puke up into this thread. None of which have anything to do with my question. I don’t plan on living in the US after I turn 55 anyway, so I don’t care what happens. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/35 "2016-11-21T01:21:14Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That’s some fine information you decided to just puke up into this thread. None of which have anything to do with my question. > > I don’t plan on living in the US after I turn 55 anyway, so I don’t care what happens. Sorry, didn’t realize this thread was all about you. :dubious: I don’t think anyone cares about your question. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/36 "2016-11-21T01:26:53Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Sorry, didn’t realize this thread was all about you. :dubious: I don’t think anyone cares about your question. I didn’t realize it either. I had a simple question, since I didn’t read about it anywhere. Other people somehow want to know about MY retirement plans :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/37 "2016-11-21T01:26:56Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t plan on living in the US after I turn 55 anyway, so I don’t care what happens. Why 55? What am I missing out on? There is an expat enclave in Mexico, we think our money will go further there. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/38 "2016-11-21T01:39:31Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Why 55? What am I missing out on? There is an expat enclave in Mexico, we think our money will go further there. That’s the year my children will finish college. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/39 "2016-11-21T01:55:43Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That’s the year my children will finish college. 😃 Rabbi said that life begins when the dog dies and the kids go off to college. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292/40 "2016-11-21T01:56:56Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That’s some fine information you decided to just puke up into this thread. I’m glad we both agree that was fine information. > [@](#): > > I don’t plan on living in the US after I turn 55 anyway, so I don’t care what happens. Good luck with that - there’s an active thread about how Americans think they can just go live anywhere in the world and it’s not that simple. Again, hope you have the money to do that and you’ve done you’re legwork. The older you are the less attractive you are as an immigrant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-ryan-wants-to-phase-out-medicare-again/772292.md?page=3)