# Paul Verhoeven retrospective at IFC Center in NY **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 8, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214 "2010-01-08T22:34:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/1 "2010-01-08T22:34:46Z")
From this [link](http://www.theauteurs.com/notebook/posts/1381): > [@](#): > > The series _**[Base Instincts: Verhoeven in the USA](http://www.ifccenter.com/series/waverly-midnights/base-instincts-verhoeven-in-the-u-s-a/)**_ runs on weekend midnights, starting from tonight through February 20, at IFC Center in New York. “The intergalactic military epic _ **Starship Troopers** _ may be the most analytically exacting critique of Fascist aesthetics this side of Susan Sontag,” writes Paul Brunick for the L Magazine, “but for director Paul Verhoeven ‘the essence of the movie is really young kids fighting giant bugs.’ It’s a characteristically smartass description of his slyly subversive blockbuster, but what makes the gloss so funny is that it’s also perfectly sincere. Buzzing with armies of CG insects and enough high-school drama for an outer-space spin off of _ **The OC** _, _ **Starship Troopers** _ is at once an anti-imperialist allegory and a mindlessly satisfying piece of schlock. And therein lies the brilliance of Paul Verhoeven, the bastard son of Jerry Bruckheimer and Bertolt Brecht.” ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/2 "2010-01-08T22:45:44Z")
Well, they got the “bastard” part right. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/3 "2010-01-09T06:17:19Z")
And “mindless”. And “ass”. _Starship Troopers_ is not a good movie. Verhoeven removed everything that was good about the book, from the power armour and fighting style to the characters that you could actually respect, and replaced it with his own unwarranted anti-imperialist bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/4 "2010-01-09T07:03:29Z")
To be fair, he did add boobs. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/5 "2010-01-09T07:20:12Z")
Tonight’s TV selection is tricky. The 10 pm movies on are _A Farewell To Arms_ and Verhoeven’s _Zwartboek_. Tricky choice, so maybe I’ll go for the 9.30 movie, a work by comic genius Will Ferrell - _Old School_. Just kidding, Verhoeven wins out. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/6 "2010-01-09T21:46:40Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Well, they got the “bastard” part right. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/7 "2010-01-09T21:56:48Z")
I’m quite in agreement with the quote in the OP. Verhoeven’s work (especially his hollywood work) is mostly a sarcastic (or if you’re less forgiving: cynical) exaggeration on what sells: beautiful people doing horrible things. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/8 "2010-01-10T00:00:12Z")
Verhoeven is a hack, and he’s been getting hackier with each film. Calling his work “satire” means that you don’t understand what the term means and his act is getting old. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/9 "2010-01-10T00:05:57Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > And “mindless”. And “ass”. > > _Starship Troopers_ is not a good movie. Verhoeven removed everything that was good about the book, from the power armour and fighting style to the characters that you could actually respect, and replaced it with his own unwarranted anti-imperialist bullshit. you berate him for mindlessness and then you chastize him for not making “mech warriors: insect planet” :rolleyes: \*\* RealityChuck\*\* ; have you seen Zwartboek? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/10 "2010-01-10T00:09:26Z")
Nevermind, not worth the effort. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/11 "2010-01-10T00:19:54Z")
I appreciate a lot of the satire of **Starship Troopers** & **Robocop**. **Basic Instinct** pisses me off & is plot-stupid, but there are some good lines in it. Other than those, I have managed to avoid the man. Might watch **Starship Troopers** again some day, don’t really need to see the others again. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/12 "2010-01-10T08:58:27Z")
MEh, call me when someone does the Uwe Boll retrospective, I might be interested then… ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/13 "2010-01-10T09:20:37Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > you berate him for mindlessness I think “berate” is a bit strong for someone taking insulting words out of context. “Take cheap shots at” seems more accurate. > [@](#): > > and then you chastize him for not making “mech warriors: insect planet” :rolleyes: Have you read the book? If someone is going to bother making a movie based on an existing IP, I don’t think it’s too much to ask that they treat it with a bit of respect, even if it is sci-fi. He took a fighting force that would genuinely be interesting to watch and turned it into a mob whose knowledge of tactics is limited to “Run from point A to point B, firing”. He took educated, civilised characters and turned them into jackbooted morons. He took one of the defining examples of powered armour in sci-fi, _and took out the powered armour_. This is a bad, stupid movie, even if Verhoeven did it on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/14 "2010-01-10T14:34:39Z")
And he lied while he was making it. He and his people previewed some of the CGI at World-Con the year before, and recruited extras for the sports scene at the beginning of the movie. They were specifically asked about the armor and the character development. They lied to us. Bald-faced lies. Fuck Verhoeven and the horse he rode in on. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/15 "2010-01-10T15:55:21Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > \*\* > RealityChuck\*\* ; have you seen Zwartboek? As I said up thread I saw it on TV last night. Big fan of the gratuitous, totally unbelievable overhead bucket of shit scene eh? I think that’s the end of Verhoeven for me. Good movie though if he could keep his problems out of it. Unfortunately he can’t. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/16 "2010-01-10T16:24:05Z")
From [scifisquad.com](http://www.scifisquad.com/2010/01/07/the-top-ten-sci-fi-adaptations/)’s list of 10 best scifi adaptations: > [@](#): > > Heinlein’s book is a chore to read, more a series of lectures than anything else; in this case I’ll take Verhoeven’s version any day of the week. and > [@](#): > > faithfulness is for marriage, not for movies. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/17 "2010-01-10T17:40:25Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] faithfulness is for marriage, not for movies. [/QUOTE] Well, there’s being unfaithful, and then there’s screwing a pig on your honeymoon. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/18 "2010-01-10T17:47:24Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] Heinlein’s book is a chore to read, more a series of lectures than anything else; in this case I’ll take Verhoeven’s version any day of the week. [/QUOTE] Spoken by someone who can’t read. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/19 "2010-01-10T17:53:16Z")
It is possible to have no love for Heinlein, to have never even read the novel on which “Starship Troopers” is based, and to hate the movie anyway. I don’t know if a faithful adaptation would have been good, but I doubt it would have been worse. Appealing to the authority of Peter Martin ([?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Martin)) doesn’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214/20 "2010-01-10T17:53:27Z")
Okay, **lissener** , I will buy your perspective if you answer, to my satisfaction, two questions: 1. What did Heinlein, by his own admission, attempt to do in writing _Starship Troopers_? 2. In what way did Verhoeven satirize the worldview in Heinlein’s book, the one held by his characters? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paul-verhoeven-retrospective-at-ifc-center-in-ny/524214.md?page=2)