# Paula Deen **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049 "2013-06-27T17:56:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/221 "2013-07-03T01:26:46Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What Paula Deen and her sons tell us about the four ways that racists defend themselves: [http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2013/06/25/2208311/what-paula-deen-and-her-sons-tells-us-about-the-four-ways-racists-defend-themselves/?mobile=wp](http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2013/06/25/2208311/what-paula-deen-and-her-sons-tells-us-about-the-four-ways-racists-defend-themselves/?mobile=wp) > > In summary: > > 1. Just because you were a good person while in the privacy of your family life and you were nice to your kids doesn’t have any evidential bearing on how you might have treated strangers or employers > > 2. Being accused of behaving in a racist manner is not worse than being the victim of racist behavior. > > 3. Just because people around you, like employees, might not have been in a position to voice their objections in a position to call you out doesn’t mean that what you did wasn’t considered offensive. > > 4. Having grown up in a different time is no excuse, because you, like the rest if us, live in this time, and there is no reason why you can’t understand or learn what the standards for behavior are from paying attention to the world around you. > > Is Paula Deen a racist in her heart? Might we all, deep down, be a little bit racist? Who knows? > > But also, who the fuck cares? You aren’t judged for what kind of person you ae in your heart. You are judged on your actual behavior and treatment of the people you interact with. And that’s 100 percent fair and just. I agree with everything you just said. My only question would be this, what if you were being judge by comments that were either taken out of context or exaggerated. We don’t really know how Paula Deen acts in “real” life or how she treats everybody. Are we really getting enough information to write her off as a horrible racist. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/222 "2013-07-03T01:42:01Z")
What’s with all of the missing ds on the ends of your words? Things like “she is bias” or “she is prejudice” or “what if you were being judge”? ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/223 "2013-07-03T01:48:27Z")
> [@Myrnalene](#): > > Who the fuck are you, James Madison? The reason that southern slave owners danced around using the word “slave” was so they could distance themselves from the very idea of slavery - because even then many slaveholders knew it was completely repugnant and morally wrong. So they pretended they were “workers” or “persons held in service” or any other flowery term that would deny who they actually were and what was being done to them. The fact that they did this was dishonest and embarrassing _hundreds of years ago._ The fact that you and Paula Deen are doing it now is…I seriously don’t have words for how ridiculous you look. > > This is an excellent and important point, but consider that you’re talking to someone who thinks 1983 was some distant age when nobody knew the n-word was bad. > > Hey aag3981: > > Racism was indefensible in 1865 or whenever Paula’s grandfather committed suicide because he was so sad about the fact that he could no longer support himself on the backs of exploited and oppressed [del]workers [/del] slaves. > It was indefensible in 1983. > It’s beyond indefensible now so seriously, shut the fuck up. I don’t believe slave owners ever danced around the term “slave”. They completely believed they were just and right in their self justified view. Didn’t the Supreme Court rule that a black person was 3/5’s a white man? If they danced around it and knew it was repentantly, I don’t believe they would have fought a war and died over it. I don’t know what you usually fight over, but I like it to be something that I believe pretty strongly in. Paula Deen didn’t sound like she was taking up for her great grand father’s practice of owning slaves. Maybe she was describing a stressful time in a man’s life that he could not handle. It wasn’t just that he couldn’t own slaves. He also just LOST A CHILD. IDK about you, but as a mother, that sorta takes precedence. Also if Paula Deen thought it was ok to use the N-word, she likely would not have only been doing it when describing a black man that robbed her to her husband in her own home. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/224 "2013-07-03T02:05:15Z")
> [@aag3981](#): > > Also if Paula Deen thought it was ok to use the N-word, she likely would not have only been doing it when describing a black man that robbed her to her husband in her own home. I love how absence of evidence is now evidence of absence. ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/225 "2013-07-03T02:15:12Z")
> [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > My point was that if she _is_ racist anywhere else, demonstrated by her behaviors, than why is it so unlikely that she was comfortable enough in her own business to also not display racist tendencies? Especially when they’re have been multiple complaints by different people spanning years. > > There’s plenty of intelligent discussion within this thread, it’s just being ignored for rote platitudes. But here’s the thing; if you personally think it’s so abhorrent, then get the hell out of it and leave the rest of us to our debate. Quit trying to nanny everyone. That’s a job solely for **BigT**. I understand your point and you could very certainly be correct. My argument is that there is not enough evidence to say that she was and that we shouldn’t be so quick to judge. ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/226 "2013-07-03T02:19:38Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > That’s rich. Aren’t you the one who asked us to consider how Deen’s family carried a legacy of slavery and therefore she should be expected to retain some unpopular but prejudiced views? No, I haven’t. I said that Paula was raised in a pre-civil rights era, in a section of the country where segregation was practiced and justified and it should be expected that she retained some prejudiced views. ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/227 "2013-07-03T02:24:52Z")
> [@Myrnalene](#): > > No, you - because anyone who thinks that slavery wasn’t considered evil one hundred and fifty years ago and that the poor rich white plantation owners didn’t know any better has a really superficial view of American history. > > ETA: Also, nice scare quotes around “worse thing”. A lot of people didn’t consider it evil 150 years ago. They believed it was completely right and just. That’s why they fought over it. I believe plantation owners used various excuses to justify it because it was bad. As far as my scare quotes, I believe there are worse things that can happen to someone. Sorry, my thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/228 "2013-07-03T02:27:39Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > What’s with all of the missing ds on the ends of your words? Things like “she is bias” or “she is prejudice” or “what if you were being judge”? I’m typing fas an no proo reaing. Surely I’m giving you something else to comment on than my poor spelling and grammar… ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/229 "2013-07-03T02:31:13Z")
> [@aag3981](#): > > If you don’t like what I am saying, get out of the Pit, or go peruse another forum. I am arguing my views. Views that I have acquired after living in the South, understanding the people (from both sides) and reading some research and other really smart people’s views of the topic. I do believe you consider yourself an expert on your own views, that I won’t dispute. As far as your apologist attitude: it’s pretty weird unless you are Deen herself or a close relative. What, exactly, is your stake in this? I’m sure a learned person such as yourself realizes that Deen likely signed a ream of paperwork promising to present a good image for each company she shared endorsements with. She failed to keep her image squeaky clean, so they axed her. She should have been more careful. More savvy. Or just, you know, nicer. You people (heh) who defend her smell like closeted racists, it’s embarassing when you make excuses for the old south, and you assume that every southern white will agree with you and nod knowingly when you claim “We’re all a little bit racist”. Nope. Some of us might occasionally show our ignorance or put a foot in our mouths, but when that happens decent people own it and don’t blame the victims. And those of us who are “a little bit racist” ought to take a highly paid, highly visible and privileged position of power seriously and appreciate the responsibility of representing multiple companies. If you don’t get it, you’re not only “a little bit racist” you also have a bad head for business. Also, your soapboxing on Deen’s behalf isn’t going to change anything unless you can put in a good word for her at the next Klan pancake supper. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/230 "2013-07-03T02:33:36Z")
> [@aag3981](#): > > I’m typing fas an no proo reaing. > > Surely I’m giving you something else to comment on than my poor spelling and grammar… I’m surprised you’re looking for me to comment more. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/231 "2013-07-03T02:34:48Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > If you don’t get it, you’re not only “a little bit racist” you also have a bad head for business. Also, your soapboxing on Deen’s behalf isn’t going to change anything unless you can put in a good word for her at the next Klan pancake supper. Mmm. Klancakes. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/232 "2013-07-03T03:18:50Z")
> [@aag3981](#): > > … take a history class. > [@aag3981](#): > > … Didn’t the Supreme Court rule that a black person was 3/5’s a white man? … > [@](#): > > The [Three-Fifths Compromise](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-Fifths_Compromise) was a compromise between Southern and Northern states reached during the Philadelphia Convention of 1787 in which three-fifths of the enumerated population of slaves would be counted for representation purposes regarding both the distribution of taxes and the apportionment of the members of the United States House of Representatives. It was proposed by delegates James Wilson and Roger Sherman. … > > … The Three-Fifths Compromise is found in Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the United States Constitution:Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons… This moment in history was brought to you by the letter N. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/233 "2013-07-03T03:22:16Z")
> [@aag3981](#): > > I’m not really sure how any of this addresses what I said. Do I get to expect apologies from men for all the crap their great great grand father’s did to my great great grand mother? I’m not sure where you get this “expecting apologies” nonsense. It’s a complete non sequitur, but I suppose it’s occasionally is an effective method of misdirection. The point I was making is this: > [@aag3981](#): > > No, I haven’t. I said that Paula was raised in a pre-civil rights era, in a section of the country where segregation was practiced and justified and it should be expected that she retained some prejudiced views. Paula Deen was up to this point an immensely successful woman. I give her the same credit as I give you for being able to understand what’s acceptable in today’s society and what isn’t with respect to race. Unless: (1) She’s a moron, (2) she’s a liar, (3) she’s a racist, or (4) some combination of the above. This is 2013, not 1966. The “she was raised in a different time” bullshit doesn’t get you bupkiss. Straight to racist jail. Don’t pass Go. Don’t collect $200. > [@aag3981](#): > > A lot of people didn’t consider it evil 150 years ago. They believed it was completely right and just. That’s why they fought over it. I believe plantation owners used various excuses to justify it because it was bad. As far as my scare quotes, I believe there are worse things that can happen to someone. Sorry, my thoughts. They didn’t fight over it because they believed it what “right and just.” They fought over it because (1) it served their economic interests, and (2) they were bad people. > [@](#): > > The question (again) is not is she racist, it’s if the restaurant she finances uses discriminatory practices and if she know about and did not act. That’s the question the court is tasked with asking. We as a society are not limited to that narrow issue. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/234 "2013-07-03T03:42:17Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Mmm. Klancakes. Shouldn’t that be **k** lan **k** a **k** es? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/235 "2013-07-03T03:44:48Z")
> [@aag3981](#): > > My issue with this story is like any other story similar. The Media has grabbed to 3 or 4 worse comments they could find Not everybody has even 3 or 4 comments this bad. > [@](#): > > remember they aren’t perfect little gems and probably should be so quick to throw stones. Heh. Few people on this board are subject to illusions that I am a perfect little gem, least of all me. However (or, perhaps, in addition), I don’t always heed the warnings of bronze-aged medicine men, and so I may continue to hurl e-stones at Deen. WRT her comments to Hollis: I don’t think her relationship with him is the only thing that matters. There was an audience. Anybody of any race might have been offended by such a statement. > [@](#): > > If you aren’t familiar with her cooking, it’s very traditional and practical and not the craziest ones that you are likely to see get the most attention. I like referring to her recipes when looking at basic ways to make southern stuff, though to a lesser extent, like I do to Emeril, Julia Child or Ina Garten. However I’m a foodie. I am also a bit of a fit nut myself and didn’t have to have Paula’s diabetes scare to know that I shouldn’t eat her type of cooking every day. And I’m southern, I grew up on a lot of what she is known for. But Thanksgiving dessert, there are no rules.🙂 I’m not Southern and never was. I guess I _was_ Midwestern, but not anymore. I don’t want to be the person that goes around telling people there are food rules or deny anyone their humanity. OTOH, this ‘no rules’ thing starts to show up in people’s behavior more than just 1/365th of the time. It can become the self-command version of a decree, which gets issued more and more loosely, which results in gluttony, which results in \_\_\_\_\_\_\_. > [@](#): > > Really!! An old southern woman said the N-word 30 years ago!! That’s my position, more because I am (perhaps unfairly) inclined to believe that the South sucks (because of people like Deen) than as a defense of Deen’s behavior. ---
**Author:** ![ombre12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d26b3c/32.png) [@ombre12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ombre12)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/236 "2013-07-03T09:54:33Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Shut up shit for brains. > > I am offended that retards\* got offended by Deen’s actions and attitudes. > > \*Just the retards on this board. Can’t help but love The Pit for the things it does do well. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/237 "2013-07-03T10:04:27Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > Can’t help but love The Pit for the things it does do well. You again? Look, if you want to be spanked some more you’ll have to say more stupid stuff that endorses racists. We can tell how much you like it but this ain’t a free ride. ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/238 "2013-07-03T12:45:00Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > I do believe you consider yourself an expert on your own views, that I won’t dispute. As far as your apologist attitude: it’s pretty weird unless you are Deen herself or a close relative. What, exactly, is your stake in this? I’m sure a learned person such as yourself realizes that Deen likely signed a ream of paperwork promising to present a good image for each company she shared endorsements with. She failed to keep her image squeaky clean, so they axed her. She should have been more careful. More savvy. Or just, you know, nicer. > > You people (heh) who defend her smell like closeted racists, it’s embarassing when you make excuses for the old south, and you assume that every southern white will agree with you and nod knowingly when you claim “We’re all a little bit racist”. Nope. Some of us might occasionally show our ignorance or put a foot in our mouths, but when that happens decent people own it and don’t blame the victims. And those of us who are “a little bit racist” ought to take a highly paid, highly visible and privileged position of power seriously and appreciate the responsibility of representing multiple companies. > > If you don’t get it, you’re not only “a little bit racist” you also have a bad head for business. Also, your soapboxing on Deen’s behalf isn’t going to change anything unless you can put in a good word for her at the next Klan pancake supper. I’m absolutely sure she did sign paperwork requiring her to present a good image, but she is getting reamed for behavior that happened 30 years ago or behavior she presented or ignored in private. The accusations in the lawsuit aren’t even at her, they just dug up snippets of past behavior to make her look bad. “Some of us might occasionally show our ignorance or put a foot in our mouths,” What do you think Paula did?? “but when that happens decent people own it and don’t blame the victims.” Is that what Paula [did](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkwbyNKC9Kg)? “And those of us who are “a little bit racist” ought to take a highly paid, highly visible and privileged position of power seriously and appreciate the responsibility of representing multiple companies.” And what if it turns out that the lawsuit is crap and Paula’s restaurant doesn’t practice discriminatory policies. Paula is a person that has some prejudiced views privately that she keeps to herself (like everybody) and she really does treat people fair. I don’t have a stake in this. I just believe that the few comments that they could get Paula Deen to admit to on the stand and murmurs and rumors otherwise are being overblown without much if any evidence. Or at the very least, without the presentation of the opposing view point. What if this is overblown just to sway the court’s decision, or soley to ruin her publicly? She is losing ALOT, potentially because the plaintiff didn’t have much of a case to begin with and found a useful way to spin it. ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/239 "2013-07-03T12:52:03Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > This moment in history was brought to you by the letter N. > > CMC fnord! Well I remembered something about. Couldn’t remember exactly what. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/240 "2013-07-03T12:52:23Z")
I think we’re about three steps away from a tearful, “Leave Paula alone!” YouTube video. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049.md?page=13)