# Paula Deen **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049 "2013-06-27T17:56:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/241 "2013-07-03T13:40:10Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I’m not sure where you get this “expecting apologies” nonsense. It’s a complete non sequitur, but I suppose it’s occasionally is an effective method of misdirection. > > The point I was making is this: > > Paula Deen was up to this point an immensely successful woman. I give her the same credit as I give you for being able to understand what’s acceptable in today’s society and what isn’t with respect to race. Unless: (1) She’s a moron, (2) she’s a liar, (3) she’s a racist, or (4) some combination of the above. > > This is 2013, not 1966. The “she was raised in a different time” bullshit doesn’t get you bupkiss. Straight to racist jail. Don’t pass Go. Don’t collect $200. > > They didn’t fight over it because they believed it what “right and just.” They fought over it because (1) it served their economic interests, and (2) they were bad people. > > That’s the question the court is tasked with asking. We as a society are not limited to that narrow issue. The apologist comment was in response to this: Originally Posted by LavenderBlue If my grandfather had been a fucking asshole who thought it moral to actually treat human beings like property and steal their labor, I would spend the rest of my life trying to apologize for being related to one of the world’s lowest forms of life. The fact that Deen feels sorry for the grandfather and not the human beings he enslaved is sickening. I believe Paula Deen is a combination of 1 and 3. Also you are correct, they did fight for slavery because it served their economic interest, but to justify those interest and their use of slavery they came up with justifications for themselves and for others. Things like blacks were inferior, slavery was used in the bible, blacks were too savage and wild. People born into these practices, raised on them, likely didn’t believe what they were doing was wrong. Some probably questioned it and changed their mind, but many probably didn’t know it was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/242 "2013-07-03T13:56:35Z")
> [@aag3981](#): > > People born into these practices, raised on them, likely didn’t believe what they were doing was wrong. Some probably questioned it and changed their mind, but many probably didn’t know it was wrong. Bull fucking shit. The same people treated their dogs better. What the hell is wrong with you? ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/243 "2013-07-03T13:57:49Z")
> [@aag3981](#): > > I understand your point and you could very certainly be correct. My argument is that there is not enough evidence to say that she was and that we shouldn’t be so quick to judge. By the same point, is there really any reason to defend her to the extent you have? You don’t know her either, you weren’t there, she’s already admitted to some of the behavior that’s been leveled against her and the complaints and accusers are several that span different time periods. I get saying reserve some judgment until all the facts come in, but the way you’re going about this either leads one to believe you have something invested in all this (like being a racist yourself and using this to excuse your own behavior), you have insider information (you’re a family member or current staffer), you’re trolling just for the hell of it, or you get oddly and doggedly obsessed about these sorts of things for some bizarre reason (too much devil’s advocacy, perhaps). Regardless, let it go. She’s not without her ardent defenders and you’re not going to change anyone’s mind. You’re going to drive yourself nuts responding to every post in this thread and getting twisted all into knots. Try posting elsewhere. It’ll help. ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/244 "2013-07-03T13:58:06Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Not everybody has even 3 or 4 comments this bad. > > Heh. Few people on this board are subject to illusions that I am a perfect little gem, least of all me. However (or, perhaps, in addition), I don’t always heed the warnings of bronze-aged medicine men, and so I may continue to hurl e-stones at Deen. > > WRT her comments to Hollis: I don’t think her relationship with him is the only thing that matters. There was an audience. Anybody of any race might have been offended by such a statement. > I’m not Southern and never was. I guess I _was_ Midwestern, but not anymore. > > I don’t want to be the person that goes around telling people there are food rules or deny anyone their humanity. OTOH, this ‘no rules’ thing starts to show up in people’s behavior more than just 1/365th of the time. It can become the self-command version of a decree, which gets issued more and more loosely, which results in gluttony, which results in \_\_\_\_\_\_\_. > > That’s my position, more because I am (perhaps unfairly) inclined to believe that the South sucks (because of people like Deen) than as a defense of Deen’s behavior. I agree and have stated on this thread many times the regardless of her comfort or relationship with Hollis, on TV, in public being interviewed was the wrong place to make the statement she made. I’m just trying to state why she may have thought it was ok. As far as food rules, personal preference I guess? Birthday cake is yummy, cheese cake amazing, and if there aren’t french fries in heaven I don’t want to go, but do I eat this stuff daily. Hell, I don’t even eat it weekly. Sure some people can’t control themselves, but I believe most adults do fine. Well, some:/ I would suggest that your (possibly unfair) view of the South is a stereotype based on historic events like civil rights and current representations such as Paula Deen or country music or any other hick show on tv. Again, incomplete bits of information used to exaggerate the worst stereotypes of the South for profit. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/245 "2013-07-03T13:59:46Z")
> [@ombre12](#): > > Can’t help but love The Pit for the things it does do well. What are you, a kindergarten teacher? Quit nannying everyone and tale care of yourself. We’re all adults here and don’t need anyone to wag their fingers at us. Go back and play in great debates where everyone has to play nice. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/246 "2013-07-03T14:00:16Z")
> [@aag3981](#): > > People born into these practices, raised on them, likely didn’t believe what they were doing was wrong. Some probably questioned it and changed their mind, but many probably didn’t know it was wrong. Well so fucking what? Do you think people who do evil things sit around trying to find ways to do evil? Everyone ties to justify what they do. The guy who beats his wife might have been raised by an abusive father, the sex abuser may have been abused himself, the drunk driver has lost his judgement because he is drunk, the thief is just trying to feed his family, the soldier was just following orders. But once we become adults we are responsible for our own actions. ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/247 "2013-07-03T14:01:23Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Bull fucking shit. The same people treated their dogs better. What the hell is wrong with you? And some didn’t. What’s your point? I have known some people that treat their dog better than their spouse. What the hell is wrong with you? Is it so difficult to stop and think and maybe understand what it was like to live and be raised in this time? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/248 "2013-07-03T14:12:49Z")
> [@aag3981](#): > > What the hell is wrong with you? Is it so difficult to stop and think and maybe understand what it was like to live and be raised in this time? I suspect you do not see the irony contained in that statement. ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/249 "2013-07-03T14:15:39Z")
> [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > By the same point, is there really any reason to defend her to the extent you have? You don’t know her either, you weren’t there, she’s already admitted to some of the behavior that’s been leveled against her and the complaints and accusers are several that span different time periods. > > I get saying reserve some judgment until all the facts come in, but the way you’re going about this either leads one to believe you have something invested in all this (like being a racist yourself and using this to excuse your own behavior), you have insider information (you’re a family member or current staffer), you’re trolling just for the hell of it, or you get oddly and doggedly obsessed about these sorts of things for some bizarre reason (too much devil’s advocacy, perhaps). > > Regardless, let it go. She’s not without her ardent defenders and you’re not going to change anyone’s mind. You’re going to drive yourself nuts responding to every post in this thread and getting twisted all into knots. Try posting elsewhere. It’ll help. I don’t know Paula Deen, or have insider information. I work in an area where I see, daily, people are judged by the worse acts of their life and cast off to the fringes of society and actively impeded from going on with their life regardless of how old the offense is or what else a person has to offer or has done in their life. I understand that their are consequences and believe they are important, but the imposition of those consequences based on incomplete information is wrong. All because our society judges and generally refuses to forgive. Paula Deen will likely be forgiven. The people I deal with don’t have fame or support that she does. They are almost never forgiven, never allowed to move on, and quickly cast off by being denied employment or places to even live. I’ll spend my time responding to whatever I feel like. It’s not driving me nuts, nor am I in knots. If it bothers you, then maybe you should post elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/250 "2013-07-03T14:21:19Z")
It doesn’t bother me at all. Watching you dance around like a demented monkey is hilarious. And, unlike you, I can walk away from this thread without thinking it’s my honor bound duty to defend someone who, as you admit, will survive all this just fine. With her millions intact. So, I’d suggest helping those people you mention who sound like they really do need it, but seeing how you’re impervious to reasoning in the first place, I’ll leave you (and that other annoying guy) now to continue white knighting poor Paula Deen. Hopefully, she’ll send you a tweet of thanks for all your valiant and important efforts on the Straight Dope Message Board. ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/251 "2013-07-03T14:24:15Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > Well so fucking what? Do you think people who do evil things sit around trying to find ways to do evil? Everyone ties to justify what they do. The guy who beats his wife might have been raised by an abusive father, the sex abuser may have been abused himself, the drunk driver has lost his judgement because he is drunk, the thief is just trying to feed his family, the soldier was just following orders. > > But once we become adults we are responsible for our own actions. Sure, at which point they are sentenced, counseled and go on with their life. That is why slavery was abolished, civil rights were imposed and people are living differently now. By your argument, Paula use to beat her husband 30 years ago, and that incident is being used to prosecute her brother for it now? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/252 "2013-07-03T14:26:05Z")
> [@aag3981](#): > > I’m just trying to state why she may have thought it was ok. Other people will point out that it doesn’t matter what a racist says their motives are for that kind of behavior. > [@](#): > > I would suggest that your (possibly unfair) view of the South is a stereotype based on historic events like civil rights and current representations such as Paula Deen or country music or any other hick show on tv. Again, incomplete bits of information used to exaggerate the worst stereotypes of the South for profit. I certainly don’t like incomplete information. OTOH, it has been hard not to notice the parade of ignorant racists, along with other dumb stuff, coming out of the South. I know everyone there can’t be the same, but I don’t think I’m being deluded by music or TV either. But I don’t really want to go on about that. There is a point where we have to accept ‘incomplete information’ since that is our lot as humans. Murder convictions are done with incomplete information- the standard is never omniscience, but ‘beyond reasonable doubt’. How many examples of racist behavior do we need out of somebody before we realize we’re dealing with a racist? N-word spouting, condescending to black pesons rich white people seems to fit the standard well enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/253 "2013-07-03T14:36:59Z")
Listen guys, I feel like I keep answering and responding to your questions and comments but no one is answering my main one. What if Paula’s views are misconstrued and over blown? What if you are all passing judgment on a situation where you have been presented inaccurate information? Is it fair to judge her under these circumstances? The media coverage she has gotten is really utterly baffling. I didn’t need Paula Deen’s diabetes scare to know that I didn’t need to cook the food she is known for if every day I want to stay thin and healthy. I certainly don’t believe she has any responsibility to me or my health in telling me about her diabetes or other health issues. I didn’t need to hear about her decades old racist comments to think she probably holds prejudiced views. I just assume all older southern people hold those views or did and keep them to themselves because they are no long socially acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/254 "2013-07-03T14:49:10Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Other people will point out that it doesn’t matter what a racist says their motives are for that kind of behavior. > I certainly don’t like incomplete information. OTOH, it has been hard not to notice the parade of ignorant racists, along with other dumb stuff, coming out of the South. I know everyone there can’t be the same, but I don’t think I’m being deluded by music or TV either. > > But I don’t really want to go on about that. There is a point where we have to accept ‘incomplete information’ since that is our lot as humans. Murder convictions are done with incomplete information- the standard is never omniscience, but ‘beyond reasonable doubt’. How many examples of racist behavior do we need out of somebody before we realize we’re dealing with a racist? N-word spouting, condescending to black pesons rich white people seems to fit the standard well enough for me. Well in murder conviction there is still a standard that it has to reach before a conviction can be made. What about when we are wrong about a murder conviction? Not only is some poor person wrongfully sentenced (possibly killed themselves) but the offender is potentially free to offend again. That’s a pretty hefty price to pay. I believe we should be aware of our errors and try to correct them. Also, I’m not disputing that we are possibly dealing with a racist. I am saying that we haven’t been given very much information to go on, the information provided is incomplete and cherry picked by sources that are against Paula and we should probably hold our judgment until we have more information. If 2 incidents in a 66 year period is enough for you, then very well. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/255 "2013-07-03T16:02:54Z")
Let me get this right: she didn’t do anything wrong and the reason she did it is because she is an old, white southerner who all do it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/256 "2013-07-03T16:14:02Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > Let me get this right: she didn’t do anything wrong and the reason she did it is because she is an old, white southerner who all do it. Don’t forget the part where aag thinks she most likely is a racist but that she grew up in the south so she’s just normal but don’t say anything bad about the south because the south isn’t any more racist than anyplace else. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/257 "2013-07-03T17:07:40Z")
> [@aag3981](#): > > Is it so difficult to stop and think and maybe understand what it was like to live and be raised in this time? Been following along and this post really caught my eye. Um, anyone who is non-white in this country has stopped and thought about what it would be like to live in that time, and shuddered in terror. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/258 "2013-07-03T17:13:19Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Been following along and this post really caught my eye. Um, anyone who is non-white in this country has stopped and thought about what it would be like to live in that time, and shuddered in terror. Your fears pale (oh dear) relative to the horror and cruel oppression of someone being held to account for their own words. Paula Deen suffers. You don’t even know the meaning of suffering! ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/259 "2013-07-03T17:19:15Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Your fears pale (oh dear) relative to the horror and cruel oppression of someone being held to account for their own words. Paula Deen suffers. You don’t even know the meaning of suffering! I may as well have nailed her to the cross myself! ---
**Author:** ![ombre12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d26b3c/32.png) [@ombre12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ombre12)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049/260 "2013-07-03T17:31:14Z")
Here is old “annoying” me again. So I can’t pit the Pit in the Pit? …(Damn that was good) Poet, don’t know it. Actually I really do enjoy The Pit very much. Some great one liners. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paula-deen/662049.md?page=14)