# Pay cuts/"localized pay" based on where you live, not the job you do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 17, 2021, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322 "2021-05-17T21:27:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/41 "2021-06-04T19:38:05Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > And sure, you might have chosen to move, but that wouldn’t usually count as giving “notice” that you no longer needed the supplement. I mean, if you moved to New Jersey but continued to commute to New York, you’re no longer living in New York, but your work is still based there and you’d get the supplement. Where you live isn’t the key thing, ISTM. If it’s changed so that it is now based on where you live rather than where you work, then you should be notified of that. The “location pay” or “location adjustment” when it exists is indeed based on where you work rather than where you live. But I’ve never seen or heard of such an adjustment given in a 100% remote, “live anywhere you want in a state where we do business” job." Those adjustments are given when you will be in the office enough often enough that it will restrict where you can live. It’s not a matter of "it is now based on where you live rather than where you work " - it’s a matter of where you live is also where you work. Nobody is talking about cutting pay for someone who lives in Pennsylvania and commutes to NYC every day or even two/three days a week - it’s about cutting the pay for the person who rarely or never comes to NYC. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/42 "2021-06-04T19:39:42Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Thanks both - I knew US employment law was different, but didn’t know it involved there often actually being no contracts. That’s shocking. Even the lowest-paid jobs here have contracts. We actually have jobs where you don’t know what you are getting paid until after you get hired. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/43 "2021-06-04T19:40:07Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This argument has been made and I disagree with it. If I have a large mortgage or crippling student loan debt, then that is a choice I made that has no relevance to the employer at all, anymore than if I live in a home free and clear or have no student loan debt because I got scholarships or my parents paid for it. > > What is relevant, and what any employer must pay to get quality employees, is that if they expect you to be in an office, then you must live within commuting distance of that office. And if that office is located in an area where housing is expensive, then to get anyone to work there, they must pay more to you than they would if they were located in an area where it wasn’t so expensive. > > Likewise, if they do not expect you to be at the office, you can live literally anywhere in the world. It is not necessary that they pay you the increased housing rate for the locality that _you don’t live in_ . It’s murky ground to argue that employees should be paid less based on lower living costs at all, though - it does open the door to employees being paid less if they have no student loans. I don’t think employers having employees living “anywhere in the world” is as simple as it sounds, legally. Otherwise all the jobs being done remotely now would already be being done by people in places like India; some are, obviously, especially call centres, but not all of them. There must be legal reasons companies aren’t utilising that more. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/44 "2021-06-04T19:44:17Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > The “location pay” or “location adjustment” when it exists is indeed based on where you work rather than where you live. But I’ve never seen or heard of such an adjustment given in a 100% remote, “live anywhere you want in a state where we do business” job." Those adjustments are given when you will be in the office enough often enough that it will restrict where you can live. It’s not a matter of "it is now based on where you live rather than where you work " - it’s a matter of where you live is also where you work. Nobody is talking about cutting pay for someone who lives in Pennsylvania and commutes to NYC every day or even two/three days a week - it’s about cutting the pay for the person who rarely or never comes to NYC. Fair enough. But IMO it would be reasonable to give employees notice that their unexpected remote working, if they choose to continue it, now means that they will be getting a pay cut. It’s not quite the same situation as one individual choosing to move somewhere cheaper and getting permission to work from there instead. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/45 "2021-06-04T19:46:12Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > It’s murky ground to argue that employees should be paid less based on lower living costs at all, though - it does open the door to employees being paid less if they have no student loans. I think there might be some talking past each other here- when location pay is set based on the “cost of living” , that “cost of living” is not based on any one individual’s living cost. What matters is that housing costs X% more in NYC than it does in Rochester and it takes Y income in NYC to pay for the same standard of living you could get for Z income in Rochester - but the fact that my personal situation means I could live rent-free in NYC and therefore Rochester would be more expensive _for me_ doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/46 "2021-06-04T19:56:30Z")
That’s what the company mentioned in the article in the OP did. I haven’t heard of companies just instantly cutting pay with no warning- usually, there’s an announcement that they expect people to return to the office at some specific point in the future and they are sometimes given the option of staying 100% remote and taking a paycut based on the location where they will now be working. Or they may just be told to return to the office or resign - which is actually what lots of companies are doing. A relative of mine living in NYC was hired for a Seattle based job, and as long as everyone was 100% remote, the company was fine with him staying in NYC. But they expect to return to in-office in December, so he will have to move to Seattle at that point or find a new job. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/47 "2021-06-04T20:09:44Z")
Thanks Doreen. The link wouldn’t open for me, but I tried again after deleting cookies and it opened. Getting the pay deduction next year doesn’t sound as bad, in many ways. But then the article says “Now that she lived in an inexpensive city, Redfin asked, would she be willing to accept a pay cut?” Nothing about where she was working, exactly, but where she was living. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/48 "2021-06-04T20:13:15Z")
You’d probably have to know that Rochester is a six hour drive from NYC to know that she couldn’t live in Rochester and work in Brooklyn. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/49 "2021-06-04T20:25:43Z")
Most of this is stuff that would have been worked out as companies started naturally moving to a more work from home situation. The pandemic made a bunch of chaos, and everyone is still trying to figure out how to move forward. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/50 "2021-06-04T20:27:58Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > You’d probably have to know that Rochester is a six hour drive from NYC to know that she couldn’t live in Rochester and work in Brooklyn. I looked it up. But I know people who choose to live that far away and commute to city jobs for a day or two a week, renting a room or staying with friends. And that’s pre-pandemic. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/51 "2021-06-04T20:31:01Z")
What makes me not feel sorry for her at all is that she chose to buy a house in Rochester, knowing that the pandemic was still going on and her job situation in flux. Further, her husband’s job situation was still in flux. I think it is pretty unrealistic to move six hours away from your job and somehow demand that they continue your employment at current pay unless you had worked out those details firmly and ahead of time. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/52 "2021-06-04T20:56:51Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Don’t these jobs have contracts?? If you sign on to a job at one rate of pay, then I’d have thought they’d need some justification to reduce your pay, and your own living costs going down isn’t a good one. Otherwise they could pay you less once you’ve paid off your mortgage or student loans. Everything I ever learned about human resources I learned from Darth Vader. “I am altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it any further.” An employer is generally free to change the conditions of employment (pay, benefits, policies, etc., etc.) at any time. I mean they can’t just tell you the day before you’re being paid that they cut your salary by 20%. But they can say, “Oh, by the way, starting next pay period we’re going to cut salaries by 20%.” Practically speaking, such changes would likely be detrimental to the company as disgruntled employees sought work elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/53 "2021-06-04T21:04:02Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Everything I ever learned about human resources I learned from Darth Vader. “I am altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it any further.” An employer is generally free to change the conditions of employment (pay, benefits, policies, etc., etc.) at any time. I mean they can’t just tell you the day before you’re being paid that they cut your salary by 20%. But they can say, “Oh, by the way, starting next pay period we’re going to cut salaries by 20%.” Practically speaking, such changes would likely be detrimental to the company as disgruntled employees sought work elsewhere. That’s not true everywhere though. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/54 "2021-06-04T21:08:09Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > What makes me not feel sorry for her at all is that she chose to buy a house in Rochester, knowing that the pandemic was still going on and her job situation in flux. Further, her husband’s job situation was still in flux. > > I think it is pretty unrealistic to move six hours away from your job and somehow demand that they continue your employment at current pay unless you had worked out those details firmly and ahead of time. TBF, now I’ve been able to read the article, it doesn’t sound like she’s asking people to feel sorry for her: She’s resigned to the trade-off, at least for now. “So much in the world is not how I thought it would be,” she says. She’s just being used as an example of someone whose work life has changed - there’s no appeal for sympathy. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/55 "2021-06-04T21:14:31Z")
But on the flip side, the employee is able to do that as well. Give me a 20% raise or else I am quitting. It works both ways in an at-will employment scenario is that each party can end the relationship for any reason or no reason except an illegal reason. IIRC, in Europe you cannot just walk away from a job. You must give a month or more of notice. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/56 "2021-06-04T21:18:42Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > That’s not true everywhere though. Of course it’s not true everywhere. Most of this thread revolves around the United States with such varied locations as San Francisco, Rochester, Dubuque, and Kansas City being used in examples. Based on that context, I didn’t feel it was necessary to add, “In the United States,” to my statement. Generally speaking, in the United States, employers are free to alter the conditions of employment at any time. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/57 "2021-06-04T21:29:30Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Of course it’s not true everywhere. Most of this thread revolves around the United States with such varied locations as San Francisco, Rochester, Dubuque, and Kansas City being used in examples. Based on that context, I didn’t feel it was necessary to add, “In the United States,” to my statement. Generally speaking, in the United States, employers are free to alter the conditions of employment at any time. Yes, but Darth Vader doesn’t live in the US either 😁 And the pandemic doesn’t just affect the US, which also isn’t the only country that has location-based wages. I genuinely thought this was a general topic, not just for US residents. You sounded like you were speaking a universal truth that cannot be changed. It isn’t universal, though. It probably never will be changed in the US (just like many other things won’t be changed in the UK), but not because it’s as automatic as gravity. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/58 "2021-06-04T21:33:39Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But on the flip side, the employee is able to do that as well. Give me a 20% raise or else I am quitting. It works both ways in an at-will employment scenario is that each party can end the relationship for any reason or no reason except an illegal reason. > > IIRC, in Europe you cannot just walk away from a job. You must give a month or more of notice. Do you think giving a month’s notice sounds onerous compared to your employer being able to fire you at will? In the UK - I can’t speak for all of Europe, which has multiple different laws in different countries - it can be a day, a week, a month, three months, etc - it depends on your contract, which you will have. And in reality employers don’t always insist on the full notice period being served anyway. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/59 "2021-06-04T21:50:22Z")
So do I , as well as people who work five days a week in NYC and “go home” on weekends\* - but it appears that Redfin is only lowering salaries for those who are working full-time from other places. If she was willing to go into the NYC office a few days a week (and I don’t know if they mean “2” or “4” by a few) it doesn’t seem that they would lower her salary at all. \* Lots of them -many of whom arrange their schedules to have 4 consecutive days off ( Fri-Sat off week 1 and then Sun-Mon off week 2 for example) ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322/60 "2021-06-04T23:16:21Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Do you think giving a month’s notice sounds onerous compared to your employer being able to fire you at will? Absolutely. The ability to tell your boss to shove it is amazing. I’ve quit once on zero notice and the look on their face is totally worth the zero stress I’ve ever had about being fired with no notice. I would bet the ratio is at least 2:1 on people quitting with no notice vs being fired on the spot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-cuts-localized-pay-based-on-where-you-live-not-the-job-you-do/942322.md?page=4)