# PAY-PER-POST?!?!?!?!?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 10, 2001, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557 "2001-11-10T01:28:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/61 "2001-11-10T16:33:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by particlewill \* > The thing that makes this site special isn’t anything the Reader is doing, apart from providing the forum. It is the people who post here that make it what it is. WE provide the content that they are asking US to pay for. > > But then I suppose a good analogy would be, say, renting space for a party. You provide the fun, but you pay for the place to have your fun. Maybe The Reader, or more specifically Cecil, makes the _largest_ contribution to the party by attracting a quality membership. IMHO, what makes this scene special is the way the publicity department (albeit passively) targets great party animals - just take a look at one of those threads about ‘How did you find the SDMB’: Whatever else one may think, the audience for Cecil’s columns and books comprises intelligent, educated, inquisitive and humorous people. The joint jumps because of the publicity department – that and the way the bouncers throw out the riff-raff. And I don’t charge clubs for my dance floor exertions. I’m just glad to be there, have fun and to express myself. Sex in a toilet cubicle would be nice though. ---
**Author:** ![EagleEye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f04885/32.png) [@EagleEye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EagleEye)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/62 "2001-11-10T16:42:37Z")
This is my last post if they charge. Later all. ---
**Author:** ![Ayesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Ayesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ayesha)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/63 "2001-11-10T16:43:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Montfort \* > \*\*Would the Reader accept money orders for payment, in addition to credit cards? > > This would alleviate a lot of the problems for those who are either high school students, or those who don’t have a credit card. Right? > > Money orders can be bought at 7-11s and other convenience stores, plus any US Post Office. Yes, there is a fee, $.90 at the post office, but it is a way to pay. > \*\* This is one of my big questions too, the LIONsob and I decided years ago not to play with plastic because we saw too many people get themselves into trouble that way. ---
**Author:** ![mighty\_maxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@mighty\_maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mighty_maxx)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/64 "2001-11-10T16:46:57Z")
haven’t decided if I’ll pay or not. If its $20 I’ll probably stay and pay. I’ve been here for quite awhile now, but I’m not a heavy poster. $50 is not worth it to me. I’m not well known on the board, and have nearly zero friends, so I come here for mainly the content. I just don’t have that kind of money to pay for just a good read. If it’s over $20 I’ll at the most be a lurker, but I’ll probably not even look this way again. I’m not faulting the Reader; they have to do what they have to do. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/65 "2001-11-10T16:47:42Z")
Even if they don’t take money orders, In the other locked thread on this same topic Demo and someone else (was it SamClem? don’t remember offhand) said that they would be willing to let people send them money and then pay for it on their credit cards. Hell, if this is the only thing keeping people from paying then I’ll extend the same offer on my credit card. ---
**Author:** ![shmigheghi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@shmigheghi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shmigheghi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/66 "2001-11-10T16:50:39Z")
What about switching a couple forums to off-site, free community provider things, IE. EZBoard? Still free, still fun. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/67 "2001-11-10T16:55:33Z")
No problem paying but I think I’ll lurk for a while\* before paying to see what happens to this place. If it stays the same or close I’ll pay but if it stagnates I’ll save my money for a DVD/PS2 game. 20-50 quid a year is worth it(hell I spent x3 that at a single Dopefest ;)) if it remains the great place that it is now. \*If I can. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/68 "2001-11-10T17:12:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diane \* > \*\* > This may sound like a cold and harsh analogy, but I would really, really like family season floor tickets to the Utah Jazz but they are too freakin’ expensive. I love the Jazz, I love basketball, and I REALLY love Karl Malone. I just can’t afford season tickets. I could sacrifice vacations, new shoes and clothes, new carpet, an oil change in my car, not buy food. I could get a second job for a month or so or even take out a loan. > > It doesn’t matter that I buy the t-shirts, watch them on TV, and on occassion splurge for a live game. It doesn’t matter that I have naughty dreams about Karl and that I love their team colors and really miss Jeff Hornacek since he retired. > > \*\* I miss Hornacek too. ☹ And I’m going to miss Stockton even more when he leaves. Of course, I’m in Laker-Country now, so it behooves me to keep my love for all things Jazz to myself. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/69 "2001-11-10T17:22:19Z")
If the board goes pay-to-post, I honestly see the number of new subscribers–people who’ve never posted before–plummeting precipitously. And that would be disastrous, because there’s nothing ignorance-fighting thrives on more than new blood. Even more than any of the regulars leaving, this is the problem I see. The board isn’t the board without new posters. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/70 "2001-11-10T17:32:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gadarene \* > If the board goes pay-to-post, I honestly see the number of new subscribers–people who’ve never posted before–plummeting precipitously. And that would be disastrous, because there’s nothing ignorance-fighting thrives on more than new blood. > > Even more than any of the regulars leaving, this is the problem I see. The board isn’t the board without new posters. I also meant to say (in my post above) a possible by-product of this development is _significantly_ more publicity for The Reader and Cecil as, ASAIK, it’ll be the only general interest board to charge for posting. Good for their business, possibly very good. Now, that might be seen as a cachet (given human nature) and attract interesting people from wider afield or it might mean every loon on the net will heading this way – either or both ways, it’s even more work for the staff. It’s so very difficult what all this will mean but it _could_ be a good development. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/71 "2001-11-10T17:43:30Z")
> [@](#): > > I also meant to say (in my post above) a possible by-product of this development is significantly more publicity for The Reader and Cecil as, ASAIK, it’ll be the only general interest board to charge for posting. Good for their business, possibly very good. Honestly, **LC** , I can’t see _that_ much publicity coming out of this. I could be wrong, of course, but it doesn’t seem newsworthy enough even to spark a mention in Slate or Salon. Where were you thinking the publicity would be coming from? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/72 "2001-11-10T17:44:55Z")
Since the other thread got locked due to length, this seems like the only appropriate place to respond to a reply directed at me from there. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Stoid_ > > * * * > > Originally posted by Shayna > But to dun me for money when there’s perfectly good ad space right at the top of this very board that they aren’t taking advantage of - well, that just pisses me off. And then to lie about it with the “we’ve tried everything” line? I’m insulted. > > * * * > > Shayna, did you read the announcement? Do you read the business section? Do you follow the internet as a business? Ad space is going begging. You can’t give ads away in some places. Internet advertising has been shown to have extremely limited value. > > And I’m shocked that you would accuse them of simply lying to you! Are you privy to the books?" Do you know what it costs to run this place, how hard they may have tried to sell that space, and for what price? Has the Chicago Reader and the staff of the SDMB ever done anything that would justify your leaping to that conclusion? Unless there’s something I’m missing, all they’ve ever done “to” you is give you a social outlet you never would have had otherwise, and enabled you to meet the love of your life! FREE! How can you leap to such dastardly conclusions about them? **Stoid** , of course I read the announcement - I quoted directly from it. What kind of question is that? Really. And nowhere in any of my replies did I say I have knowledge of their books or what it costs to run this place. Here is my beef again, since I apparently haven’t made it clear. When **Ed** says: " **Have we considered alternatives?** \ The Chicago Reader has a full time ad sales staff that has **tried everything** it - **and you** - can think of"… (paraphrasing) so now we’re forced to come to you, the members, or this place gets shut down, I consider that a lie. **They have not tried everything that _I_ can think of** , let alone every other alternative out there to making this a pay-to-post environment. They have not. And when they say they have **tried** everything, yet I don’t see banner ads on the SDMB, I consider that a lie. As to the economics of it, I’ve already conceded that banner ad revenue isn’t as lucrative as it once was. But that doesn’t make it non-existent, as is evidenced by the **fact** that there _are_ message boards out there that are **being supported by** banner ad revenue. But again, let me reiterate - I’m aware that there’s a chance that the SDMB won’t be able to take in **enough** revenue to support the additional expenses it incurs, with banner ads alone. _Some_ form of member participation might be necessary to _augment_ it. If that were the case, **as I said before** , I’d gladly chip in. People have been getting really snotty with the posters who’ve said they can’t afford to pay to post at the SD, and suggesting that _they_ haven’t “tried everything” in order to afford it (such as taking 2nd or 3rd jobs, selling old CDs, etc.). Well, if y’all want to make that argument against the _posters_ here, then it has to be equally applied to the _owners_ here as well. Do not lie to me and tell me you’ve “tried everything” when you have not. I don’t see banner ads on this page. It is **FREE** to register with Busrt Media and start having ads appear and it can be done **RIGHT NOW** to **start** offsetting some of the costs of running this place. It may not support it fully, but it’s a damn sight better than nothing. [li]Banner ads provided to the SD at no cost to them: $ Some value \> 0.[/li][li]Straight Dope banner at the top of the page, without corresponding banner advertising along with it: Worthless[/li]\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ I really appreciate your consideration in avoiding stepping on my penis - **Spiny Norman** [sup][sub][sym]©[/sym][/sub][/sup] Jeg elsker dig, Thomas [sup][sub][sym]©[/sym][/sub][/sup] ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/73 "2001-11-10T17:57:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ayesha \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Montfort \* > > \*\*Would the Reader accept money orders for payment, in addition to credit cards? > > > > This would alleviate a lot of the problems for those who are either high school students, or those who don’t have a credit card. Right? > > > > Money orders can be bought at 7-11s and other convenience stores, plus any US Post Office. Yes, there is a fee, $.90 at the post office, but it is a way to pay. > > \*\* > > This is one of my big questions too, the LIONsob and I decided years ago not to play with plastic because we saw too many people get themselves into trouble that way. \*\* RiteAid now sells pre-paid Mastercards. You buy the card for 10-20 dollars, and presto! There’s 10-20 dollars of available “credit.” You can’t use it in stores, but for on-line and telephone purchases, it seems workable. If you want to add money to it, take your cash and card in to RiteAid, and they’ll take you money and swipe your card, and you’ll have that much more available on the card. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/74 "2001-11-10T18:02:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rmat \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > > \*\* > > Oh, and I can see myself paying maybe $20 to keep with this board. But if the fee gets steeper than that - I’m not sure. \*\* > > No shit. I AM sure. Big difference between 20 and 50. Fuck it, go to $10 a year and participation will scarcely drop at all. At fifty bucks, 6 insufferable blabbermouths will be the extent of the membership. \*\* Yeah, I’d say 20 bucks is about my limit, too. And 10 or 15 bucks would probably be more appropriate. More than that would be a strong deterrent to new members, I should think. I’m a hypothetical lurker reading a thread, and I see something that sets me off, and I really want to make myself heard, but then I see a $30 fee to post? Uh, well, maybe I’ll just lurk a while longer. (How much expense is there in running a message board, anyway? I don’t mind the Chicago Reader making some money off of me, but if I sense profiteering, I’m outa here.) ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/75 "2001-11-10T18:07:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Okay, I re-read my comment to **Lynn** and it sounded kinda snarky-which it wasn’t. > > I’m just saying I wouldn’t be too surprised if one or two people did pay to troll. Or, say a regular poster signs up, and then sees it as a license to act like an ass. Or formerly banned members, such as **Satan** , **DITWD** , **Wildest Bill** signing up again-if they have the cash-and deciding they now have even more “clout”, or what have you. > > I could probably afford to. But I choose not to, as I don’t think it’s worth it. Hell, I have about 20 MBs bookmarked-Snopes is a good one. And hey, there’s always yahoogroups mailing lists, yahooclubs, delphi forums, etc etc. > > I also have to say, I’m hurt by some of the snarky MOD comments. I would think you guys are above that sort of thing.\*\* If banned members try to sign up again, fine, we’ll take their money…and if we determine that they are, in fact, banned members, we’ll ban them again. No refunds. 😃 Right now, we’ve got a core group of people who make snide remarks about the way the board is run, we find them, cancel their privileges, start the cycle over again. How many names do you think that they’ll register at even $20 a pop? To my way of thinking, THIS will be a great improvement of the board, and a major reason why donations or ads or whatever will not work. This is a cost of running the message board that is mostly invisible to the average poster. Sure, right now we are dealing with the problem, but at a tremendous cost in time and energy. Time and energy that could be better spent elsewhere. I completely understand that there are people who cannot or will not choose to spend money to post on a message board, and quite a few of them are worthwhile posters. I’ll miss them. But something’s got to give. The Reader has been running this message board at a loss since day one. Resources are at their limit. This place was never meant to be a primarily social message board, but you’d never know that by some of the posters. Frankly, if ALL you’ve got to contribute is MPSIMS, then I won’t miss you. Yes, social posting is an essential part of this message board, and it’s a lot of fun, but it is not the primary reason. There are lots of things that I’d enjoy participating in, if they were free. However, I have to decide where to spend my money, time, and energy. Each of you must decide the same. I’d like to play in Everquest, for instance, but I really don’t want to pay to play, since I would only play a couple of days a week, at best. I’m sure that I’d enjoy it, I just choose to spend my money elsewhere. I empathize with the people who say that there’s just no slack in the budget. Been there, done that, wore out the Tshirt. I mean, you KNOW that you’ve cut costs to the bone when you walk to the library, scan all the magazines for money-saving hints, and realize that you’ve already implemented all of them, plus a few more. I have been speaking my opinion here, it is NOT the Reader’s opinion or even necessarily the opinion of the other moderators/administrators. But free participation is going the way of the dodo, people, and that’s just a fact of life. Lynn ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/76 "2001-11-10T18:18:53Z")
Oh hey, I hear ya-just think the whole situation sucks, as I’m sure everyone does. I’m just saying I’m sure there will be one idiot or two-look at SA-people paying just for the priviledge of posting goatsec and yu0=fagg0t!!! A question, though, about Salon-I visit the site all the time, and I can read articles and such-and I’ve never had to pay. What’s the deal? ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/77 "2001-11-10T18:25:11Z")
\*\* Gadarene\*\* – To some extent, I’m thinking out loud but…this is a new internet development **and** one that generates money. To be clear: What’s being proposed here is a _brand new revenue source_ – and that’s news for everyone. I have no idea what that could mean for publicity (and to a large extent that depends on how The Reader want to play it) but a lot of new media people are going to find the STMB concept very interesting. Also, it sets the board apart from the rest so it’ll always be the one quoted as the exception to the rule…won’t it ? But like I said in my earlier post, I think the consequences are difficult to judge but _could_ be good for the long-term prospects of the board – however and at the same time, I don’t think The Reader will be a loser. Interesting days… ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/78 "2001-11-10T18:29:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Sex in a toilet cubicle would be nice though. OMG!!! You Brits and your public sex-cursions! Been to any libraries lately, L\_C? 😉 Ummm. . . If you’ll excuse me, I think I need to use the bathroom. Pepper - You know, if you were to move back here to Utah, you could yell your love for the Jazz from the highest building AND I could have the pleasure of inviting you and your husband over for super (no pasta or rice or Top Ramen)!!! We need ya back, Hon! 🙂 I have now read more of the threads and wanted to add that again, even though I can and will pay for the privilege of posting, it is the fact that we will be losing people like Pepper that breaks my heart. As I said in my analogy (or tried to say) is that even though it may become a luxury not everyone can afford (and as harsh at it sounds, shouldn’t be the Reader’s problem)those still here will be affected by those who can’t be. THAT is what I find sad. As far as the smaller membership and the decrease in newbies, I don’t think it would necessarily be a bad thing. For the few of us here that came from the much smaller AOL board, you know that we had a great thing going with a very small fraction of the people. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/79 "2001-11-10T18:31:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > \*\*, ASAIK, it’ll be the only general interest board to charge for posting. Good for their business, possibly very good. > \*\* Actually, The Well has been charging a lot longer. And they charge a lot, relatively: $10 a month last time I was a member. I would have stayed for the quality of the posters, I just hated the software and it crashed out my browser anyway, so it wasn’t worth it. I know they’re still around, but I don’t know how healthy they are or what they are charging these days. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\*[ I don’t mind the Chicago Reader making some money off of me, but if I sense profiteering, I’m outa here.) \*\* :eek: What are you, some kinda pinko-commie freak? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557/80 "2001-11-10T18:33:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lynn Bodoni \* > If banned members try to sign up again, fine, we’ll take their money…and if we determine that they are, in fact, banned members, we’ll ban them again. No refunds. 😃 Right now, we’ve got a core group of people who make snide remarks about the way the board is run, we find them, cancel their privileges, start the cycle over again. How many names do you think that they’ll register at even $20 a pop? To my way of thinking, **THIS will be a great improvement of the board, and a major reason why donations or ads or whatever will not work.** This is a cost of running the message board that is mostly invisible to the average poster. Sure, right now we are dealing with the problem, but at a tremendous cost in time and energy. Time and energy that could be better spent elsewhere. If the real reason you want to force us to pay to play is that it gives you more control, then at least be honest about it and don’t try to pass this move off as a last resort because you’ve exhausted all other revenue resources when you haven’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-per-post/92557.md?page=5)