# Pay scale military v. civvies **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 20, 1999, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-scale-military-v-civvies/5501 "1999-12-20T08:38:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Atrael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Atrael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atrael)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-scale-military-v-civvies/5501/21 "1999-12-21T13:35:00Z")
Hell Monty, **Everything** is punishable under the UCMJ if they really want to get you…lol. And yes, I would say that an E-5 pay of around $22k a year is about the same as a civilian $30k…but keep in mind that you stated that that pay was received after only 3 years…it’s difficult if not impossible to make E-5 in that same time period in the miltary. TripFall– > [@](#): > > The income may not be as high, but every penny you get is disposable. It just depends on how you dispose of it. Not really…sure you get an allowance for uniforms, but fact is unless all you wear is BDU’s or dungarees (sp?), you probably spend more than that on your clothes. A new set of dress blues runs around $200 if I remember correctly. Unlike in the civilian world, you can’t wear the same clothes from work out to the mall at night…so you basically have to have two totaly separate wardrobe’s. And you have to pay for your haircut…which is needed about every 2 weeks at the most…the galley isn’t free…it’s about $2 a meal…cheap, but not free. And don’t forget that the galley has certain hours…no running over at 7pm because you lost track of time (or had to work late, or stand duty) and getting dinner…it’s off to whatever over-priced fast food joint has a contract with the base. While your comparison to dorm life is acturacte to a point, like it or not, college ends…eventually you get a job, move out of mom’s house and get your own place, with a job that pays enough to support that…I know E-6’ and 7’s that had been in for 10 years still living in the barracks…because they were single. While they have a bigger room, and no roomate, by no means could it be considered luxuriouse. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-scale-military-v-civvies/5501/22 "1999-12-21T15:41:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Hell Monty, Everything is punishable under the UCMJ if they really want to get you…lol. And I thought this site was dedicated to the eradication of ignorance, not the perpetuation of it. ---
**Author:** ![Atrael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Atrael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atrael)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-scale-military-v-civvies/5501/23 "1999-12-21T16:10:00Z")
Sorry monty, but article 134 I think…it’s the catch all that’s thrown in for almost every mast or court martial…Give me a while to look it up and I’ll come back and give you a link… ---
**Author:** ![Atrael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Atrael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atrael)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-scale-military-v-civvies/5501/24 "1999-12-21T16:16:00Z")
Here ya go… [www.military-network.com/main\_ucmj/SUBCHAPTERX.html](http://www.military-network.com/main_ucmj/SUBCHAPTERX.html) and just in case that doesn’t work… > [@](#): > > 1. ART. 134. GENERAL ARTICLE > > Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, ll conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court. It’s normally not used as a stand-alone charge, but if they suspect you of wrong-doing, but can’t find a specific article against it, this is what they’ll use…and it’s almost always included with all other charges… ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-scale-military-v-civvies/5501/25 "1999-12-21T17:11:00Z")
Atrael, yeah they have something unwritten like that for Jr High school here. Im not kidding but they label each crime as a letter A-M. Like being late would be a “b” crime. Some they don’t have letters for so they just make something up. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-scale-military-v-civvies/5501/26 "1999-12-21T21:34:00Z")
And well you should be sorry, At. I’ve already given the link to the actual Manual for Courts-Martial, United States elsewhere in this site. Feel free to look that up instead of something which isn’t authentic. What you will find on the actual MCM site is the FACT that the Article you mention has very specific actions listed as those which constitute “actions prejudicial to the good order and discpiline” of the Armed Forces. Hell, I bet you’re one of those who thinks members of the military are government property. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-scale-military-v-civvies/5501/27 "1999-12-21T21:41:00Z")
Getting back to the issue of pay: I’ve often encountered civilians who swear members of the military don’t pay taxes. That’s incorrect, per se. Most members of the military pay federal taxes on their base pay and other pays (“allowances” are tax-exempt). Those members of the military who are Non-Immigrant Aliens (those who were enlisted at Subic Bay under the terms of a treaty then in force between the United States of America and the Republic of the Philippines) do not pay federal taxes on their pay whilst stationed outside of the United States. Each State has its own criteria for taxing or not taxing their residents who are in the military. My state, California, does not tax military pay when the resident is stationed outside of California, but the state does tax that pay while the resident is stationed in California. Some other states have no income tax (Florida, Texas, Tennessee), so for their residents it’s not an issue. Still other states require the military member to claim exemption from state taxes to receive that exemption–it’s not automatic for them. ---
**Author:** ![Atrael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Atrael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atrael)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 1999, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-scale-military-v-civvies/5501/28 "1999-12-22T03:23:00Z")
Monty– You know, I’m not sure where you’ve served, or if you’ve actually paid attention to what goes on in court-martials or NJP, but 134 is used all the time…Sorry the site I posted wasn’t “official” enough…will this do? [www.jaglink.jag.af.mil/ucmj2.htm](http://www.jaglink.jag.af.mil/ucmj2.htm) That’s the link to the JAG site… And here’s the MCM that you refered to [www.jaglink.jag.af.mil/manual.htm](http://www.jaglink.jag.af.mil/manual.htm) As I stated before, while article 134 is rarely used by itself, it’s because just about anything you can think of is covered in another article. But it is tagged on the end of just about every other charge…if you read it again, you’ll see that > [@](#): > > conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces Is what I was refering to…this is what almost anything can be labeled under…I’ll post more links for your education when I get a chance to look them up… Jorge– Here’s a link to the pay scale for 2000 You can see what all the ranks make for the years they’ve served… [www.dfas.mil/money/milpay/2000pay/jan2000.htm](http://www.dfas.mil/money/milpay/2000pay/jan2000.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 1999, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-scale-military-v-civvies/5501/29 "1999-12-22T03:27:00Z")
At: whilst you’re at it, you can check the payscale for me at 20 years service, E6. And FYI, I’ve served as recorder at a number of Captain’s Masts, Article 15 Proceedings, and Courts-martial. And not a damn one of them was a simulation. ---
**Author:** ![Kaje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f04885/32.png) [@Kaje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaje)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 1999, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-scale-military-v-civvies/5501/30 "1999-12-22T05:34:00Z")
the only experience I have with this matter is that my dad was in for 20 years (was going on 8 when I was born)… the whole time we lived off-base and had it really well…he was a major I think (the same shape as the lieutenant [I know I spelled that wrong] colonol insignia except bronze in color) when I was born and got up to colonel… since retiring from the military he’s been a private practice physician and our quality of life is just about the same as when he was in the military… I personally have no complaints * * * The only thing a nonconformist hates more than a conformist is another nonconformist who does not conform to the prevailing standards of nonconformity. ---
**Author:** ![PUNdit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@PUNdit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PUNdit)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 1999, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-scale-military-v-civvies/5501/31 "1999-12-22T23:30:00Z")
Vestal Blue says: > [@](#): > > Oh, and even though I’m required to pay Social Insecurity, I will never be eligible to collect it, so long as I receive a federal retirement. This is a copy of the post I made on Great Debates in the Social Security thread. Diamond writes: > [@](#): > > : As a military retiree you can’t collect SS as long as you receive a retirement heck, but you still have to pay it. Go figure! I have seen this a couple of times in the last few days, the problem is, it isn’t true. From the SS webpage [http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10017.html](http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10017.html) > [@](#): > > If You Get Both Social Security And Military Retirement > > You can get both Social Security benefits and military retirement. Generally, there is no offset of Social Security benefits because of your military retirement. You’ll get your full Social Security benefit based on your earnings. However, your Social Security benefit may be reduced if you also receive a government pension based on a job in which you didn’t pay Social Security taxes. Ask Social Security for a copy of the factsheet, A Pension From Work Not Covered By Social Security (Publication No. 05-10045). In fact, if you read the whole page it appears to me (I didn’t read it that closely) that military members get extra credits for their income. ## I have no idea where the idea started that military retirees are ineligible for SS, but it seems to be pervasive. Of course you can’t draw SS when you retire from the military at 39. ---
**Author:** ![Vestal\_Blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5e9695/32.png) [@Vestal\_Blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vestal_Blue)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 1999, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-scale-military-v-civvies/5501/32 "1999-12-22T23:40:00Z")
Pundit: I retired from the AF at age 35, having joined at 17. I stand corrected regarding SS & Mil. retirement pay. Thanks for the link! Another UL shot to hell! * * * VB When you are lost, or in doubt, run in circles! Scream & shout! ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_G7subs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85e7bf/32.png) [@Rich\_G7subs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_G7subs)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 1999, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-scale-military-v-civvies/5501/33 "1999-12-23T00:39:00Z")
## Been there,done that,GOT the T shirt. I was in the Navy on Subs for 6 years.I lived in that sparsely furnished,beige and gray painted,cinderblock building called “Basic Enlisted Quarters”(at least it was clean!). We were not in the BEQ’s much,spending 60% of our time at sea or “on a Duty Day” (24 hours spent onboard inport every third day). I got out as an E6 in late '88.If I recall correctly I brought home around 1400$ a month (including Sea Duty and Submarine duty pay).I remember the pay as being sufficient.I was able to afford a new car every year and a half and I never starved…(sure did get sick of McDonalds,though!)But…I was single. I can’t fathom raising a family in those conditions.My hat is off to all those guys out there trying to raise a family on E-4 or E-5 pay. You can EASILY double your pay by getting a civilian job(I called it “getting a life”)if you have any Technical military training such as Electronics or Nuclear Power engineering. Rich “G7SUBS” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-scale-military-v-civvies/5501.md?page=1)