# Pay Your Fucking Bar Tab! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 29, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526 "2003-08-29T22:43:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/41 "2003-09-01T16:42:43Z")
Let’s just suggest that her and I don’t see eye to eye on tipping, or more accurately, her attitude towards people who don’t tip big. she will readily admit that if she feels that you stiffed her on the first round, she will offer you sub par service. but if you tip her big on the first round, she will overserve you on spirits, and make sure you get better service than people who don’t tip to her liking. Note, I didn’t say people who don’t tip, or who undertip, just people who don’t tip to her liking. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/42 "2003-09-01T16:56:07Z")
Ah yes, I remember that thread. Hardly a reason to pull out the overused “if you don’t like it, quit!” argument though, dontchathink? Seeings how that’s obviously not the case here. ---
**Author:** ![Audrey\_Levins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/43 "2003-09-01T19:43:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > \*\*Do you read? You stated, and I quoted, “Either way, I don’t think it’s fair to ask me to hand over a $30 tab to a server who did nothing for it.” I quite understand your restaurant policy, thank you. What _you_ fail to understand is that your desire to pick up a tip on a $30 tab, while understandable, should come second to the customers wishes. > > Customers aren’t some unfortunate byproduct of your job, they are the ones funding the whole operation. \*\* Do _you_ read? Or do you think I’m making up “restaurant policy” b/c I just don’t want to transfer the tab? Do you really think I could get away with that for two years [the amount of time I’ve been working there]? Do you think a bar is an island where There Are No Managers Or Owners Within Earshot? Nobody To Complain To About This Bartender Who Won’t Do What She’s “Supposed” To Do? Sure, I _agree_ with the policy, but I didn’t invent it. This is something you seem peculiarly resistant to believing. And the reason the owner has this policy is b/c he knows that every time I have to leave the bar to find him to transfer a tab, or every time I have to leave the bar to go find where the people went, I am not able to do my job. Which is to serve drinks, both for the bar and for the entire restaurant, through service bar. Every time I leave the bar, and am unable to do my job, the entire restaurant slows down. That’s what I mean when I say “speed of service,” my dear. And you may think that customers would be happier if I transferred their tabs, but considering the fact that lots of other people wouldn’t get their drinks in a timely manner, it’s best for the whole restaurant if I don’t. And sure, as I said, people who pay their tab will also tip. People who transfer their tab usually don’t. But if the owner wanted me to transfer tabs anyway, I’d do it, of course. So lecturing me on customer service isn’t really going to get you anywhere, b/c I’m not the one who makes the rules. And this may come as a huge surprise, but the vast majority of people at my bar leave very happy. Whether their tab is transferred or not. :rolleyes: As for you, **TwistOfFate,** if it makes you happy to believe that I’m a horrible bartender who pisses of tons of customers every day, by all means go ahead believing it. I’m in photo albums from practically everywhere you can think of, b/c happy customers wanted to take my picture. Customers have brought me gifts, sent me thank-you cards, given me their military pins to remember them by…I have regulars who don’t even live in the state, and who make sure they drop by when they’re in town. I’ve been offered jobs at other bars from managers who’ve come in “undercover” to recruit employees. I’m damn good at what I do. But you don’t have to believe that. :shrug: Thank you, **Lezlers.** 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/44 "2003-09-01T21:04:45Z")
Ok, **lezlers** , I think you should re-read what I wrote in my last post, particularly: > [@](#): > > …spending between 5-15 minutes in an establishment trying to get service in the first place, fighting my way to the bar and then trying to get the bartender’s attention so he or she can finally help me… You say I shouldn’t expect good service if I don’t tip, and I agree! But, if I’ve got to wait and wait and wait to get the attention of the bar tender in the first place, _I’m not getting good service to begin with_! At a restaurant you tip at the end of the meal, at least to some degree based upon the service you’ve gotten. You’re saying that at a bar it’s my responsibility to bribe the bartender _ahead_ of time, or it’s my own damned fault if I get ignored? Well, when I start getting paid for jobs before I do them then maybe I’ll agree with that. Maybe from now on when I’m playing at bars and clubs I’ll play poorly until people start putting money in my jar, at which point I’ll play well. I totally understand that bartenders rely on tips. What you don’t seem to understand is that as much as that’s true, for any job/career that causes a person to rely on tips, is that tips are for the quality of service rendered, not an advance payment on hoped for service. > [@](#): > > Oh, and you’ll also be told to cease going out into the civilized world until you can handle the most basic of social ettiquites: tipping. Rightfully so. Right. I’ve been being nothing but polite in this thread, and trying not to be a tool. I know this is the pit, but come on. If your response to me is just going to be that the bottom line is I’m a jerk for what I’ve said, neener-neener-neener, then why bother? **Waverly** , > [@](#): > > Do you have a complex or something? You are tipping the bartender, not the proprietor. If the server is doing their best, you are an asshole for not tipping. Ok, you’ve got a point, but look at it this way… er, no, you know, nevermind, you’ve got a good point there, and I’ll admit that and alter my thinking immediately. But, I’ve still got an issue with this: > [@](#): > > Make any excuse you like, but you are impacting that person’s income out of misguided spite. Want to be treated just a wee bit better than teaming masses? Tip. Like I said to **lezlers** , a tip is not extortion money to ensure that I get good service. A tip is what _I_ pay my service person because I feel he or she did a good job. And no, there is no spite. I’m not hating anyone here. If you want to read malicious tendancies into this, more power to ya. Also: > [@](#): > > I’m not sure why are patronizing establishments that make you feel like cattle to begin with. Or again, you are being treated just fine but have an inferiority complex. Perhaps you’re the one with the complex. I’ve never had an issue with you, and as far as I know you’ve never had one with me. You can sit there and throw names at me and make assumptions about me all you want without knowing anything about me, and that’s your perogative. But I’m going to assume you’re just as jerkish as you seem to think I am. A guy explains politely and with an open mind his opinions on tipping and you say, “hey buddy, you’re a spiteful asshole with an inferiority complex”? Who’s the jerk now? ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/45 "2003-09-01T21:08:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Audrey Levins \* > Sure, I _agree_ with the policy… Quite obviously; and this is what I was commenting on. Or do you presume to hold an opinion yet believe you are exempt from supporting it because the actual policy is beyond your control? Don’t want your opinion questioned? Don’t post it. :wally ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/46 "2003-09-01T21:11:14Z")
wow. tourists take your picture? that really puts me in my place. you can have all the adoring punters you want, turning up for the alcohol, still doesn’t make you right. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/47 "2003-09-01T21:13:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eonwe \* > Who’s the jerk now? Tough question… I’ll go with: “Who is the person who makes up lame excuses not to tip?” ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/48 "2003-09-01T21:15:46Z")
OK, help me out here. At a neighborhood style bar or a chain restuarant style bar, how much are you supposed to tip on a drink? (I’m usually just getting something for myself, and here’s what I usually get) 1- Coke(1.00 or 1.25) 2- Bottled Beer (3.00) 3- Draft beer (1.75) 4- Mixed drink (4.00) So how much are you supposed to tip on each of these items? Do you tip for each and every drink? Or run a tab, then tip 15% or 20% on that? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/49 "2003-09-01T21:18:24Z")
Yes, and who didn’t read where I said, “yes **Waverly** , you’re right, I guess I’m going to have to change the way I do some things”? Who also didn’t answer the legitimate charge that tips should be paid for services already rendered, not as an insurance on service yet to be received? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/50 "2003-09-01T21:20:54Z")
**Zette** ’s also asking a good question that I hinted at before. Is it ok for me to leave a 45 cent tip on a drink or is that rude? ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/51 "2003-09-01T21:34:59Z")
**Eonwe** , I get what you’re saying, but I still don’t agree with it. It’s not the bartender’s fault it’s so crowded in there, they’re doing the best they can, I’m sure. Tipping should be gratuity for services rendered, yes? Well, the service _was_ rendered, to the best of the bartender’s ability. You’re not satisfied with the service _because of circumstances beyond that particular bartender’s control_, so why are you taking it out on them? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/52 "2003-09-01T21:43:28Z")
Point taken, as I said to **Waverly**. Assuming that I am getting good service to the best of the bartender’s ability, you’re right. But, I still have an issue with the ‘tip well to begin with to insure you won’t be ignored’ philosophy. Sometimes I tip with my first drink, and sometimes I tip with my last, and sometimes I tip a little bit for each one. Now, I understand that if I give the impression of being a big tipper that it’d be stupid for a bartender to not pay me a little extra attention. But, what you seemed to be suggesting was that if I got bad service after paying for one drink without tipping it’s my own darned fault. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/53 "2003-09-01T21:43:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eonwe \* > \*\*Yes, and who didn’t read where I said, “yes **Waverly** , you’re right, I guess I’m going to have to change the way I do some things”? > > Who also didn’t answer the legitimate charge that tips should be paid for services already rendered, not as an insurance on service yet to be received? \*\* You are right. I appreciate that you took that point to heart. Tipping isn’t extortion. I didn’t state that you should be treated poorly if you don’t tip (though it is certainly possible) just that it might get you noticed and better than average service. Your free to disagree, but it is still the right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/54 "2003-09-02T06:30:22Z")
Some people don’t like tipping when eating(or drinking) out. And despite what some think it is not a _requirement_. But I prefer to tip for good service, partly because it’s kind, and also for economic reasons. Look at it this way. In the long run it makes your restaurant or bar bill _lower_. If servers were paid a living wage, even _minimum_ wage, prices for your drinks or meals would be a whole lot higher. This is because the biggest budgetary item in food service is payroll. So what do you want to do? Tip 15 to 20% for good service, or pay a percentage that is a whole lot higher for just the meal? If one can’t afford to tip the server(so long as service has been satisfactory) then one shouldn’t be eating or drinking out in the first place. If I have $9.00 to spend, in my location, I would order a meal that is no more than $7.30. $7.30+.53 tax=$7.83 $7.83\*.15=$1.17 $7.83+$1.17=$9.00 It’s as simple as that. Of course counting out the pennies for a tip like that is silly, so I would, at the least, leave $1.25, if not more. Just means my meal would cost a little less. ---
**Author:** ![SunTzu2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@SunTzu2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunTzu2U)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/55 "2003-09-02T06:53:49Z")
lezlers, In response to your post. My employees loved me because I took up for them and was impartial. It is the manager’s duty to set the tone for the operation. If he tacitly allows a slackening of established standards then the restaurant is headed for trouble soon. I ran across the sort of people who could not appreciate the importance of setting and following standards and decided that it wasn’t the way we used to do things. I made a big tombstone and set it up in the employee break room. It read “WeUsedTo” and “RIP”. I kept things fun for the employees. Rewarded good work, worked on changing habits and in the rare occasion made an example of the really big hard heads. When I took over the country club I had to stop the pilfering. I took measures by first warning everyone that taking stuff away from the club was wrong and if you think you can’t stop this practice then you better leave now. I then backed up my word. Within 1 month I fired 20 people for theft. I’m not talking petty theft either. These people were trying to walk out with hundreds of dollars worth of meat, fish, produce, wine, alcohol AND cash. I instituted liquor controls and monitored inventory with sales. I cut a 52% food cost down to 28% by just eliminating the theft issue. The employees who stayed with me followed me from place to place. Even to this day when I visit the club they are happy to see me and on several occasions said that they wish I was back there working with them. I took care of my employees. When someone had a problem I listened. I tried to help as best as I could but there are limits in which I could go and they respected that. I would never ask anyone to do something that I was not ready to do myself and they knew that. After leaving the club I ran an employee leasing company which procured waiters, bartenders, valets and all the other service people you can think of and drew from my many past employees. My legacy is that about 2 dozen of my hires went on to restaurant management. Some even going on to be regional managers with multiple stores. I’ve met them on several occasions and they all appreciate the example I set for them. You probably had a manager with good intentions but poor follow through. ---
**Author:** ![Audrey\_Levins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/56 "2003-09-02T08:24:59Z")
**Waverly,** since you are engaged in a debate with **Eonwe** in which you are encouraging him to tip well, I am not going to rag on you any further. I am merely going to state, once again, that the reasons for transferring tabs have been well laid out in my previous posts. If you’d like to debate them, feel free, but just blindly saying, “Hey, I should always get to transfer my tab!” is not a debate. And while you haven’t said precisely that, you have also ignored all my arguments for _not_ transferring tabs, perhaps the biggest of which is speed of service for everyone in the restaurant. And yeah, I like my tip jar to get some tips in it, too. Sue me. 😃 But that alone wouldn’t convince my owner to maintain this policy, trust me. Thank you, once again, **TwistofFate,** for ignoring everything else I said, and mocking the one thing you thought you could grab onto. I don’t know if you realize it or not, but this type of tactic makes you look willfully ignorant and churlish. Carry on, however! **Zette,** it depends on the bar and the prices, but a buck is pretty much a standard tip for a drink. (Unless it’s a soda, and you’re in a good mood; for some reason nobody tips on sodas, so it’s really not expected.) You are free to tip less, of course, and most bartenders aren’t going to resent the quarters on a $2.50 beer, but to be remembered I’d advise a dollar. Running a tab and tipping 15-20% is also perfectly acceptable. I’ve never had a beef with tabs. My only advice, in a particularly busy bar, is to pay out your first drink/round cash, and tip well on it, before starting a tab. That way you’re guaranteed good service on your tab, and you don’t have to bother with paying/tipping on each individual drink. That’s not “standard,” that’s just my advice for the best drinks and best service…a really busy bartender has to prioritize, and you want to be a priority. 🙂 **Eonwe,** if you’re ordering a bottled beer, a tip that jingles is fine. If you like ordering mixed drinks, I wouldn’t recommend it, simply b/c they’re more trouble, more time-consuming, and the bartender controls the amount of alcohol in them. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/57 "2003-09-02T09:40:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Audrey Levins \* > **Waverly,** since you are engaged in a debate with **Eonwe** in which you are encouraging him to tip well, I am not going to rag on you any further. I am so relieved. Thanks for going easy on me. > [@](#): > > And while you haven’t said precisely that, you have also ignored all my arguments for not transferring tabs, perhaps the biggest of which is speed of service for everyone in the restaurant. Actually, dear Audrey, I did address that, as well as the additional credit card charges. But go ahead and take issue with things I ‘haven’t precisely said’. I’m perfectly fine with you making up things for me to say, seeing as you decided not to rag on me. We are going to be great buddies. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/58 "2003-09-02T10:47:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Audrey Levins \* > My only advice, in a particularly busy bar, is to pay out your first drink/round cash, and tip well on it, before starting a tab. That way you’re guaranteed good service on your tab, and you don’t have to bother with paying/tipping on each individual drink. That’s not “standard,” that’s just my advice for the best drinks and best service…a really busy bartender has to prioritize, and you want to be a priority. 🙂 Oh, sage advice indeed. Pay for round one [cash only], run a tab, cash out before you go to the table, and then pay a 3rd time at the end. Or should we cash out after the salad so the server knows that we are worthy of good service for remainder of the meal? Please, grant us more of your customer service wisdom. And _really_, I don’t mind having to fill multiple entries on an expense report, paying cash out of pocket, as long as I’m doing it for Audrey’s benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Audrey\_Levins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/59 "2003-09-02T12:01:30Z")
**Waverly,** I understood **Zette’s** question to be one about general bar tipping advice, non-specific to “waiting at the bar for a table in a restaurant.” And I also made it clear that I had no problems with tabs; my advice was that “in a particularly busy bar” you might think about tipping cash on the first round if you do plan to start a tab. “Starting a tab” usually means you’re there to drink. I even added the disclaimer that “this isn’t standard, it’s just my advice.” Seeing as it’s what I do at bars I haven’t been to before, and I get great service, I figured I’d pass it along. Zette asked for general advice and I gave it. I said nothing about waiting, waiters or tables, since that is normally the exception to the rule when someone mentions bar procedures/advice/behavior. You can do whatever you like with your expense reports and your cash. I’m a bar patron as well as a bartender, for God’s sake; I eat out a lot, I visit bars frequently, etc., etc., so it’s not like I’ve never been on _your_ side of the bar, or your side of the table. But you’ve never been on mine, I would assume, so it seems to me that my “customer service wisdom” _would_ actually be valuable, since I know both sides. And if it isn’t, or you don’t find it palatable, by all means don’t take it! ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526/60 "2003-09-02T12:27:30Z")
Thanks for the advice, Audrey. Also, I personally don’t expense alcohol, so that’s not an issue for me anyway. That’s the general guideline I follow anyway, so I think I’m doing OK 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pay-your-fucking-bar-tab/198526.md?page=4)