Paying for grad school

[Voyager]

@lazybratsche

That’s something that varies between fields. My understanding is that a MS is required before starting a PhD program in engineering (from what I hear from engineer friends). This isn’t true in the sciences, where most people go straight from getting the BA to entering a PhD program. An MS is mostly seen as a consolation prize for people that give up on the PhD (at least by academia).

Not that I’ve ever seen. While a terminal M.S. in Engineering is very common, you generally apply to a Ph.D. program directly out of undergraduate school. In places I’ve been, the requirements are more stringent both before and after you are admitted. I think it is fairly common for engineering Ph.D. students to not get a masters at all, because it just slows you up. I got one, but that was mostly because I was switching schools and wanted something for my time at the first place.

[Voyager]

@Chronos

Theoretically, at least, the agency that awards the fellowship usually does expect you to do research in that time. They’re just not looking over your shoulder on a weekly or more often basis, like your research advisor would be if you were getting paid out of their grant.

My daughter has a fellowship in Psychology, and part of it involves her having to apply for grants for herself. I find that odd, since I never had to, but great experience for when she moves into academia. She gets health insurance, btw, and teaches only in the summer.

[Voyager]

@Endymion

IMHO, the best thing that your daughter can do, if she does not receive grants and/or scholarships, is to seek private financing from a bank. Banks see students as reliable investments and are usually willing to provide adequate student loans or lines of credit. Interest rates for student loans are generally cheap - I am Canadian, and over here the interest rate is usually prime + 0.5% or pime +1. At the moment, interest rates are even cheaper than usual because of the current economic slowdown.

The bank will be able to provide your daughter with a re-payment plan that can extend over more than a decade. I understand that the prospect of repaying a loan/line of credit over 10 years may seem scary but remember that holding debt is not a bad thing - in fact it is a good thing so long as your daughter is confident in her prospects of obtaining a job upon graduation, and retaining that job (and budgeting to keep a “rainy day fund” to prepare for the worst case scenario). The cost of keeping the debt will be inexpensive, because (as I mentioned) interest rates on student loans are cheap generally and even moreso today. On the flip side, obtaining that graduate degree will greatly increase her earning potential and also provide her with a whole basket of wonderful non-financial rewards.

I agree that obtaining a research position is also a good way to help fund school, but I doubt that the wage would be enough to cover more than just groceries every month. The real benefit to getting a student job as a grad student is work experience.

However she decides to fund her degree, Congratulations to her and you as her proud parent!

I’m sorry, but this is terrible advice, assuming we’re talking about a PhD program here. First, not being funded is going to be a black mark upon graduation, since an employer is going to wonder why the school didn’t think the student was good enough to fund. Second, Ph.D. programs are all about working with a professor. It is often hard enough to get time, but the professor is going to give a lot more time to someone working on his or her grand and producing the research results promised in the grant application.
Third, the benefit of an RA job is the research experience, learning the basics and learning how to publish. Being in a team with other students is also very important.
I noticed a definite pecking order in grad school, and people on grants were definitely near the top.

And I agree with others that a stipend is enough to live on, treated carefully. I saved money on mine, but that was a long time ago.

[md2000]

This was my recollection when I was thinking about (fantasizing about?) grad school. Several grad students and profs mentioned that you get a combination of teaching assistant jobs and research asistant jobs that should pay your tuition and living expenses if you are going for PhD. My brother made enough money at grad school to also afford the beer he used to urinate on his employment rejection letters during the last semester; but he just went for an engineering MA, meaning he was overqualified for most jobs.

From what I’ve heard, things are about the same. The trick is to suck up to the right profs and get the most interesting jobs.

You know of course, what BS stands for. MS means “More of the Same” and PhD stands for “Piled High and Deep”. Or, I think it was Isaac Asimov who said that as you specialize, you learn more and more about less and less, so that by the time you get your PhD you know absolutely everything about absolutely nothing.

[Ruken]

@Enginerd

Or the students with families. My current stipend is enough to support me (especially since my S.O. works full-time), but I’d definitely need to take out some loans if we were to have a child.

This is something to watch out for. If you have any thought that you might want to return to academia, you don’t want to get a non-thesis MS. In my field, that’s essentially a terminal degree, and isn’t generally considered to be suitable preparation for a PhD. As a research based degree, a thesis MS is a very different animal.

I went to chemistry grad school with plenty of folks who got an MS at one place and then a Ph.D elsewhere. However, starting a Ph.D program having already completed an MS doesn’t really get you anywhere; you start over as a first year and still have to take all the classes. So instead of just a 5 year Ph.D you have a 1 or 2 year MS plus a 5 year Ph.D (which may also come with a MS along the way depending on the program.) These were usually folks from other countries who couldn’t get into the best programs because they’re TOEFL scores were too low or because nobody knew even how to evaluate an applicant from the U. of Tashkent. Getting an MS first at somewhere crappy gave them a chance to work on their English and to prove themselves. There were also folks who didn’t want to follow a PI who moved, folks who didn’t get along with their PI, or folks who had to move for family reasons.

[lazybratsche]

@Voyager

Not that I’ve ever seen. While a terminal M.S. in Engineering is very common, you generally apply to a Ph.D. program directly out of undergraduate school. In places I’ve been, the requirements are more stringent both before and after you are admitted. I think it is fairly common for engineering Ph.D. students to not get a masters at all, because it just slows you up. I got one, but that was mostly because I was switching schools and wanted something for my time at the first place.

Ignorance fought. I guess this is why small sample sizes are bad… now that I think of it, my data points are one or two engineers that were considering PhD programs after their MS, and another engineer that was surprised that I could go straight from BS to PhD as a biologist.

[Mr.Excellent]

@Endymion

IMHO, the best thing that your daughter can do, if she does not receive grants and/or scholarships, is to seek private financing from a bank.!

Private education loans are almost never, ever, ever a good idea. Other posters have explained the importance of getting grants you can live off in grad school - I’ll leave that discussion to them, as it’s not my field of expertise. But as a recent law school graduate, trust me, I know student loans well. If your daughter must get loans to supplement her grants, these should be federal loans. Stafford loans, supplemented with Graduate Plus loans if necessary. The money is usually disbursed by banks, and you pay the banks back - but the money actually comes from the Federal government, and these programs offer much more flexible repayment options (forebearances, deferrments, income-based repayments, consolidation, etc) than any true private loan.

[Endymion]

@Mr.Excellent

Private education loans are almost never, ever, ever a good idea. Other posters have explained the importance of getting grants you can live off in grad school - I’ll leave that discussion to them, as it’s not my field of expertise. But as a recent law school graduate, trust me, I know student loans well. If your daughter must get loans to supplement her grants, these should be federal loans. Stafford loans, supplemented with Graduate Plus loans if necessary. The money is usually disbursed by banks, and you pay the banks back - but the money actually comes from the Federal government, and these programs offer much more flexible repayment options (forebearances, deferrments, income-based repayments, consolidation, etc) than any true private loan.

For the record, I agree with all of the other posters that getting grants are the ideal situation. As other posters pointed out, grant usually accompany a grad degree program because the program is all about working for a prof.

My thought was merely that loans are a good idea IF she cannot get grants, scholarships or bursaries. You appear to agree, although prefer government loans to private loans. Fair enough.

[Voyager]

@lazybratsche

Ignorance fought. I guess this is why small sample sizes are bad… now that I think of it, my data points are one or two engineers that were considering PhD programs after their MS, and another engineer that was surprised that I could go straight from BS to PhD as a biologist.

It happens - someone who used to work for me got a PhD while working, having had a masters. That’s a lot harder than the way I got mine.