# Payment rules for contestants in a reality show. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 9, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/payment-rules-for-contestants-in-a-reality-show/444641 "2008-04-09T18:23:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/payment-rules-for-contestants-in-a-reality-show/444641/1 "2008-04-09T18:23:10Z")
I’m mulling over the possibility of devoting some time this weekend to the preparation of a reality show (the on-camera side, not the technical side). Some of my co-workers are also invited to participate in this. One of them tells me that her uncle works in the television field, and that, according to him, work rules require that we be remunerated by the production company. Other scuttlebutt around the office has tended to suggest that reality shows are not necessarily bound by the same requirements and regulations that apply to more conventional productions (if it’s proper in this day to speak of a reality show somehow not being a conventional production). Are there any Dopers in the field, who can shed some light on what are the fixed expenses of a television production company, and what portion of those might be mandated to go to a non-showbiz schlub who gives up his weekend for the opportunity to be on TV? If I want to be on television and _not_ get paid for it, I can move across the street from a creepy loner and tell the cameras how quiet he always seemed while the cops are digging up unspeakable horrors from his back yard. Thanks for any responses. If this post seems too coy to elicit a reliable answer, please say so, and I’ll see what other information I can provide. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/payment-rules-for-contestants-in-a-reality-show/444641/2 "2008-04-09T18:33:14Z")
I for one am thoroughly intrigued and expect that a full report of the weekend’s activities will be posted. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/payment-rules-for-contestants-in-a-reality-show/444641/3 "2008-04-09T18:56:09Z")
Careful what you wish for, **Otto**. If they think I’m going to do this for a box lunch and a two-day all-access pass to the craft services table, my report might look like: Saturday: Napped, surfed the internet, played Inspector Parker on line. High score, 185,003. Sunday: Attended church. Swept up the meeting hall. Came home and did laundry. Grilled cheeseburgers. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/payment-rules-for-contestants-in-a-reality-show/444641/4 "2008-04-10T05:57:56Z")
I guess I’ll use this post to bump the thread back to page one, and also provide an update of sorts. First, it appears that our participation will be requested for something other than this Saturday and Sunday. Tentatively, we’re being rescheduled for May 2 and 3 (although how they think our bosses are going to respond to losing us on a Friday has not been addressed). I have also taken some time today to obtain a hard copy of the Appearance Release, which everyone who applied for this event filled in and signed. It looks kind of boilerplate. Here are some of the salient portions: > [@APPEARANCE RELEASE](#): > > For good and valuable consideration, receipt of whichis hereby acknowledged, I authorize **[(production Company name here)** (“Producer”) and **[INSERT (The umbrella company that owns the channel this program will air on, under various names)]**. (“Company”) and their respective parents, affiliates, subsidiaries, licensees, successors and assigns to make use of my appearance for the program tentatively entitled: \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ (No really. They left that blank) (“Program”) and in connection with Producer and/or Company or otherwise. > > [Confidentiality clause, where I promise not to tell anybody how the show turns out and stuff like that] > > I agree that you may tape and photograph me, and record my voice, conversation and sounds I better not fart! :D, including any performance of any musical composition(s), during, and in connection with my appearance and that you shall be the exclusive owner of the results and proceeds of such taping, photography and recording with the right, throughout the world, an unlimited number of times in perpetuity, to copyright, to use and to license others to use, in any manner, all or any portion thereof or of a reprofuction thereof in connection with the Program or otherwise. For purposes of clarity, I expressly waive any and all moral rights I may have in connection with my appearance. > > [Clause which basically states they can put up a life-sized cardboard cutout of me at every 7-11 Store in Christendom, if they feel that will best promote the show. Also, that they get a 100% cut of any **kaylasdad99** action figures profits that may ensue (promotion and merchandising rights). And I won’t lie to them when I share details of my personal life and history.] > > I hereby waive any right of inspection or approval of my appearance or the uses to which such appearance may be put. I acknowledge that you will rely on this permission potentially, at substantial cost to you and hereby agree not to assert any claim of any nature whatsoever against anyone relating to the exercise of the permissions granted hereunder. I would have preferred to summarize that, but I’m not sure how it was different from the other permissions to license others to use the material, so I decided to copy it. > > **[Value Received: In the event that I receive any goods, services, cash prizes, or other valuable consideration by reason of my participation in the Program, I understand that I am responsible for paying all applicable taxes that may be imposed thereon, and I release and indemnify Producer and Company from any liability therefor. I understand that the value of any such goods, services, or prizes may range from a nominal amount to [INSERT AMOUNT] or greater. I further understand that I must properly complete and submit to Producer an IRS form W-9.** Okay, I was naive to sign all that without fully understanding it. That’s water under the bridge. Perusing it more carefully, I confess to some concerns, to wit: Paragraph One. Can I be said to have actually _received_ good and valuable consideration from (Producer) and (Company), merely by having _acknowledged_ its receipt? Because the only thing I got that could be construed as good and valuable consideration is my soul stolen, in return for a vague promise that I might get to be on the teevee. In the final paragraph, the **Value Received** clause, the first sentence is clearly conditional. The last sentence does not appear to be so; however I have not yet been presented with an IRS Form W-9. Am I likely to be presented with an IRS Form W-9 when (if) I turn up for the next phase of the production? If so, I am considering asking for something to sign that more explicitly spells out what I’m getting in return for my time and effort, beyond the chance to come within cologne-sniffing distance of an honest-to-Og celebrity. Is this more likely to be good, assertive strategy, or a request for a one-way ticket to Home-Viewer Land? Okay the proofread looks okay; I’ll post this. Any answers will be deeply appreciated. I’d also value any opinions to the effect of whether this might be a better-responded to thread in CS. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/payment-rules-for-contestants-in-a-reality-show/444641/5 "2008-04-10T12:09:42Z")
Your description sounds like your place of business is being set up to be a venue for an event that will take place in a reality show, not that you’re going to participate in the show itself as a contestant. Like one of the local greeters from The Amazing Race, or the clerk at the store where the designers buy last-minute supplies on Trading Spaces. I doubt you’ll get anything in the way of compensation and if so it wouldn’t be any more than scale for a day of extra work. But that’s just my WAG. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/payment-rules-for-contestants-in-a-reality-show/444641/6 "2008-04-10T16:38:15Z")
Actually, I and four of my co-workers were selected by audition to attend a crash-course two-day session wherein we would be taught a song-and dance routine, to be performed before a studio audience, in competition against a similarly-selected team from a different company. Our team would be representing one of the two celebrity hosts on the show. As it happens, I spoke with one of my fellow selectees this morning, who reported that she brought up the question of compensation yesterday with a representative of the (Producer). Evidently, our compensation is to be measured in units of “Fun.” I expect to be talking with him today, myself, and if he confirms that rate of pay, I’ll be declining to continue in the production. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/payment-rules-for-contestants-in-a-reality-show/444641/7 "2008-04-24T02:54:50Z")
Well, there will be payment (significantly less than scale, as it’s a non-union production), so I guess I’m in after all. However, the dates of the preparatory event have been changed again. Last week they notified us that they had lost the space for May 2 and 3, and that they have re-scheduled us for this weekend, April 26 and 27. Considering that three people had originally said that wouldn’t work, it’s surprising that the HR manager told me this morning that it’s a go. I’m not sure what the time frame is for Sunday, but with any luck, we’ll be out in time for me to catch the tag end of the DopeFest in Costa Mesa. BTW, if anyone wants to report this post to a mod and notify them that a switch to Cafe Society would be welcome, I’d be grateful. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/payment-rules-for-contestants-in-a-reality-show/444641/8 "2008-04-24T12:38:44Z")
Can you spill any details about the show? The name? The network? The celebrity hosts? Is one of them David Hasselhoff? Because if it’s David Hasselhoff I am so there. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/payment-rules-for-contestants-in-a-reality-show/444641/9 "2008-04-24T12:53:55Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] BTW, if anyone wants to report this post to a mod and notify them that a switch to Cafe Society would be welcome, I’d be grateful. [/QUOTE] Moved from General Questions to Cafe Society. **Gfactor** General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/payment-rules-for-contestants-in-a-reality-show/444641/10 "2008-04-24T13:26:52Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Can you spill any details about the show? The name? The network? The celebrity hosts? Is one of them David Hasselhoff? Because if it’s David Hasselhoff I am so there. [/QUOTE] I think I heard about this show – it’s Joey Fatone and Mel B. (Scary Spice), both _Dancing with the Stars_ alums. Do it! Report back! Let us know when it airs! ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/payment-rules-for-contestants-in-a-reality-show/444641/11 "2008-04-24T13:56:20Z")
[QUOTE=twickster] I think I heard about this show – it’s Joey Fatone and Mel B. (Scary Spice), both _Dancing with the Stars_ alums. [/QUOTE] No, this can’t be it. kaylasdad said they were competing for _celebrities_. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/payment-rules-for-contestants-in-a-reality-show/444641/12 "2008-04-24T17:55:35Z")
😃 Well, I am the kind of guy who sees the word _celebrity_ and mentally puts scare/irony quotes around it. Listen to **twickster**. **twickster** is wise in the ways of The Learning Channel. If anyone happens to have answers to my questions in the OP, I’d be grateful to hear them. And thanks to whoever arranged for the forum shift. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/payment-rules-for-contestants-in-a-reality-show/444641/13 "2008-04-25T18:59:12Z")
I wonder how much the survivors make. So far they have given up 30 days of their lives in this competition. They must get something. Plus do they pay all the way down to the first out? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2008, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/payment-rules-for-contestants-in-a-reality-show/444641/14 "2008-04-26T06:13:01Z")
The answer from [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivor_(TV_series)#Prizes).