PBS Civil War Documentary - Is this accurate?

[MEBuckner]

Are you running for office in 1865?

[GiantRat]

Following up on the references to the American Colonization Society (ACS), I’d add that the history of Liberia is pretty interesting. Lincoln was a member of this organization, which founded Liberia. The Liberian capitol - Monrovia - was named after US President Monroe.

[RealityChuck]

@barbitu8

Slavery was a state issue and not a federal issue (one of the state’s rights that the South now claims was the issue).

They may claim that now, but at the time of secession, the South was anti-states rights, not allowing Northern states to pass laws freeing slaves within their boarders. They specifically said they were leaving the Union because the Federal government refused to overrule these laws.

AFAIK, Lincoln himself never floated any peace terms during the war other than to require the Confederacy to rejoin the union as a requirement for peace.

[Speaker_for_the_Dead]

@RealityChuck

They may claim that now, but at the time of secession, the South was anti-states rights, not allowing Northern states to pass laws freeing slaves within their boarders.

(Bolding Mine) I’d like to see THAT awkward discussion!

[Little_Nemo]

@chargerrich

I did not know however - as a matter of fact - that he officially offered a peace treaty that allowed slavery until 1900.

I’ll admit I’ve never heard of that specific proposal.

[Little_Nemo]

@engineer_comp_geek

What he wasn’t willing to compromise on was the expansion of slavery into the western territories. In reality, the folks in the South really didn’t give two hoots if someone in a far away state had slaves or not, but what really mattered was how these new states would vote. With Lincoln’s election, this meant that the western territories were destined to become free states, which would shift power in Washington to the North side and would allow the North to destroy the southern agricultural way of life in the long run. The South wasn’t willing to let the North slowly strange it to death, so Lincoln’s concession to allow them to keep their slaves wasn’t enough, and they seceded.

The problem was the Southern agricultural way of life was committing suicide. Cotton was a valuable crop but it destroyed the soil. Every year, cotton plantations were getting less cotton out of their fields. Most plantations were actually making the money they needed to stay afloat by breeding and selling slaves. This was why the one area where the plantation owners were able to get together with the abolitionists was ending the African slave trade - they didn’t want any competition. It’s also why slave owners were so committed to territorial expansion - they wanted new markets in the west, in Mexico and Central America, and in Cuba.

[DrDeth]

@jtgain

Well, all anyone can do is judge a man’s opinion based on his words. .

Just the opposite.* Actions speak louder than words*, and the fact is, Lincoln did more for the Black man than any other politician. The Emancipation Proclamation, and the 13th Ad. These actions speak far louder than words from a speech seven years earlier.

[Elendil_s_Heir]

Lincoln did indeed change, and by the end of his too-short life was much more progressive on contemporary racial issues. Frederick Douglass said that Lincoln was the only white person to treat him with respect and dignity. We should also recall that in the White House speech that MEBuckner quoted, it was the first time that any President had proposed giving any blacks the vote. It was a big deal, and by no means a surefire win in Congress or among the states.

John Wilkes Booth was in the crowd that heard the speech that night. He turned to a friend and swore it would be the last speech Lincoln ever gave. Alas, it was.

[Gatopescado]

Pleeze don’t make Ken Burns smack a bitch!

[Captain_Amazing]

@jtgain

Well, all anyone can do is judge a man’s opinion based on his words. Maybe George Wallace in 1963 secretly liked integration but was tailoring his words and actions to get elected. If Lincoln said it, he has to live with it until we have a mind reading device.

From Wikipedia:

In 1958, Wallace was defeated by John Malcolm Patterson in Alabama’s Democratic gubernatorial primary election. At the time the primary was the decisive election; the general election was then a mere formality. This was a political crossroads for Wallace. Patterson ran with the support of the Ku Klux Klan, an organization Wallace had spoken against, while Wallace was endorsed by the NAACP. After the election, aide Seymore Trammell recalled Wallace saying, “Seymore, you know why I lost that governor’s race?.. I was outniggered by John Patterson. And I’ll tell you here and now, I will never be outniggered again.”

In the wake of his defeat, Wallace “made a Faustian bargain,” said Emory University professor Dan Carter. “In order to survive and get ahead politically in the 1960s, he sold his soul to the devil on race.” He adopted a hard-line segregationist stance and used this stand to court the white vote in the next gubernatorial election in 1962. When a supporter asked why he started using racist messages, Wallace replied, “You know, I tried to talk about good roads and good schools and all these things that have been part of my career, and nobody listened. And then I began talking about niggers, and they stomped the floor.”

[What_the]

@Little_Nemo

I’ll admit I’ve never heard of that specific proposal.

I scanned the Wikis on the Crittenden Compromise and the Peace Conference of 1861 and didn’t see anything. Not sure whether Lincoln had a position on any of those proposals anyway.

[Elendil_s_Heir]

Here’s a CNN.com article on The Abolitionists. Check the last section, No. 4, for a decent overview on Lincoln and race: http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/showbiz/slavery-pbs/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

[handsomeharry]

@MEBuckner

Are you running for office in 1865?

If he is, he’d better forget it. The McCain team has been making deals all over the place, and it looks pretty solid.

[What_the]

@handsomeharry

If he is, he’d better forget it. The McCain team has been making deals all over the place, and it looks pretty solid.

At least he won’t have to run against a clean and articulate black guy.

[chargerrich]

Did anyone else check out “The Abolitionists” on PBS last night? I was pleased to see it is a series/mini series so looking forward to a few more episodes.

Pretty Solid so far (Part 1 covered 1820-32 I believe)

[FrankJBN]

We couldn’t exactly demand that the southern states give up slavery while allowing it in the border states.

This is exactly what Emancipation Proclamation did, so apparently we could.

[DocCathode]

Mk VII

Thank you very much for providing the quote.

[terentii]

@barbitu8

Lincoln had no authority as to the slave question, so could not issue his proclamation to affect any of the states; but he could use his plenary war powers to abolish slavery in those states which continue to rebel.

He didn’t even do that. What he did was emancipate slaves held in areas then under Rebel control, just the way he would confiscate mules or any other sort of property that would aid the Confederate war effort.

In slaveholding areas under Union control, he ordered slaves who had been freed by local commanders re-enslaved, as the latter had not the authority to emancipate; at that time, slavery was still protected under the Constitution.

[Yookeroo]

@Little_Nemo

Yes, it’s pretty much on the money. It wasn’t just Lincoln. Very few white people of the time thought that black people were equal to white people.

Now I’m curious. Were there any notable white people who did believe this? Lincoln seemed to be evolving in this direction. But who was already there?

[Captain_Amazing]

@Yookeroo

Now I’m curious. Were there any notable white people who did believe this? Lincoln seemed to be evolving in this direction. But who was already there?

Thaddeus Stevens, who had a black common-law wife (he couldn’t legally marry her), and who, buried in this small integrated cemetery, put on his tombstone:

I repose in this quiet and secluded spot, not from any natural preference for solitude, but finding other cemeteries limited as to race, by charter rules, I have chosen this that I might illustrate in my death the principles which I advocated through a long life, equality of man before his Creator.