# PBS Sticks it to the Man **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 13, 2006, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523 "2006-08-13T04:27:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/101 "2006-08-15T05:39:35Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] > [@Miller](#): > > The total removal of all standards from broadcast television (which, btw, nobody has called for)… It would certainly seem so based on the sentiments expressed in this thread. One gets the feeling it’s a source of high dudgeon for most of the posters around here that the government (and especially under Bush) should try to prohibit anyone from saying and/or showing anything they want. [/quote] Which sentiments, precisely? Pull up some quotes, kiddo. Because mischaracterizing what others have said is generally considered to be “intellectually dishonest” (your own explicable standards of “honesty” notwithstanding.) > [@](#): > > And if you’ll permit me, your logic is the one which is lacking. How can you look at what has occured in rap music and claim that television would not become a cesspool of vulgarity, profanity and vulgarity if all standards were eliminated? By examining things like “market forces”. By using reasoning beyond the slippery slope and the hypothetical. In short, by examining reality rather than fantasy. > [@](#): > > Boy, you guys are really fixated on the word “bullshit” aren’t you? Well, that is what the thread is about. Or did you miss the OP? > [@](#): > > Isn’t this argument really a bit disingenuous? You know as well as I do that “bullshit” isn’t the one and only word where this issue is going to come up, and you know fully well that “bullshit” is merely a door-opener for more offensive words to follow. Nope. I don’t buy the ridiculous notion that not restricting one word will magically lead to all standards disappearing. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/102 "2006-08-15T07:31:04Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] And now, I really do have to run once I’ve given **Tuckerfan** the attention his post deserves, i.e.: \ :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] IOW, you’re too chickenshit, but let me ask you something (not that you’ll have the balls to answer, but what the hell, it’s kind of fun [not to mention easy] to make you look like an ass) considering the fact that we’ve got a government that: [ul] [li]Can’t find Osama (and doesn’t really seem to be interested in finding him).[/li][li]Can’t get Iraq stable[/li][li]Couldn’t stop 9/11, even though they had ample warning that _something_ was up[/li][li]Can’t fix New Orleans (and the rest of the Gulf Coast that got wiped out)[/li][li]Can’t live within it’s means[/li][li]Can’t stop the spread of nuclear weapons[/li][li]Can’t eliminate poverty, despite a 40 year “war” against it[/li][li]Can’t manage the space program properly[/li][li]Can’t abide by international law and treaties[/li][li]Can’t find the WMDs that they _knew_ were in Iraq[/li](to name but a few things) [/ul]And you honestly think that this government _can_ figure out what is and is not appropriate for broadcast? Where the _fuck_ do you get such faith in this, or any other fucking Administration? Seems to me, the term “clusterfuck” applies more to our government than just about any other term I can think of. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/103 "2006-08-15T08:03:22Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] IOW, you’re too chickenshit, but let me ask you something (not that you’ll have the balls to answer… [/quote] I’m afraid, dear **Tuckerfan** , that you are just a wackjob. You make leaps of logic that make no sense; you contrast things that in reality have nothing to do with one another; and you make silly declarative statements that have nothing to do with the subject the statements purport to address; you have shown an eager willingness to make declarations regarding things you know nothing about; and you’ve called me liar based upon no factual evidence whatsoever. In short, you’re not worth my time. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/104 "2006-08-15T08:14:59Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] I’m afraid, dear **Tuckerfan** , that you are just a wackjob. [/quote] Actually, I’m a self absorbed little prick, but that’s beside the point. > [@](#): > > You make leaps of logic that make no sense; IOW, you can’t think of a response, so rather than concede you don’t know what the flying fuck you’re talking about, you’d rather runaway and hide. > [@](#): > > you contrast things that in reality have nothing to do with one another; Cite? > [@](#): > > and you make silly declarative statements that have nothing to do with the subject the statements purport to address; Again, cite? > [@](#): > > you have shown an eager willingness to make declarations regarding things you know nothing about; And again, cite? > [@](#): > > and you’ve called me liar based upon no factual evidence whatsoever. Actually, I didn’t say you were a liar, I said I didn’t believe you, which is splitting hairs, I’ll admit, but let’s face it, you’re a thin skinned little bitch who can’t stand the heat, so you’d rather stick your fingers in your ears running away screaming, “LALALALALALALA! I can’t hear you!” than put up a decent fight. > [@](#): > > In short, you’re not worth my time. Translation: **Starving Artist** is a craven little coward. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/105 "2006-08-15T08:19:41Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] Actually, I’m a self absorbed little prick, but that’s beside the point.IOW, you can’t think of a response, so rather than concede you don’t know what the flying fuck you’re talking about, you’d rather runaway and hide. Cite?Again, cite? And again, cite? Actually, I didn’t say you were a liar, I said I didn’t believe you, which is splitting hairs, I’ll admit, but let’s face it, you’re a thin skinned little bitch who can’t stand the heat, so you’d rather stick your fingers in your ears running away screaming, “LALALALALALALA! I can’t hear you!” than put up a decent fight. Translation: **Starving Artist** is a craven little coward. [/QUOTE] Oh, I think anyone around here who is both honest and familiar with my history knows I’m not afraid of a fight. You’re just not worth the trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/106 "2006-08-15T08:35:05Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Oh, I think anyone around here who is both honest and familiar with my history knows I’m not afraid of a fight. You’re just not worth the trouble. [/QUOTE] You mean like \*\*Excalibre \*\*, when he said > [@](#): > > I’m familiar with your habit of blowing off attempts at reasoned discourse based upon facts rather than fantasies. I notice that there’s a number of dopers who’ve asked you serious questions that you’ve been too chickenshit to respond to. I demand cites for your assertations and suddenly I’m “not worth the trouble”? Ha! I can’t think of any idiots so dumb that they couldn’t see through that little dodge of yours. You got nothing and you know it, but you can’t admit that you just might be wrong about all of this, because that thin veneer you call a psyche would implode if you were to do that. God forbid you actually put reasoned thought behind your beliefs and subjected them to scientific rigor! ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/107 "2006-08-15T12:24:29Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] You mean like \*\*Excalibre \*\*, when he said: _“I’m familiar with your habit of blowing off attempts at reasoned discourse based upon facts rather than fantasies.”_ [/quote] You mean such reasoned discourse as asking for cites as to my hypothetical ‘Big Sister’ warping her sister’s mind, or such seasoned recourse as his saying that people were polite and mannerly in the fifties because they’d exploited blacks? _That_ seasoned recourse?:rolleyes: [QUOTE=Tuckerfan] I demand cites for your assertations and suddenly I’m “not worth the trouble”? [/QUOTE] No, you weren’t worth the trouble before that and I said so before that. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/108 "2006-08-15T13:32:40Z")
Yes, but where are these folks who you talk so freely about? Who are they? Where is the this huge moral outrage at Janet’s nipple? In my own slice of RL, that matter was handled by a couple of head shakes and shoulder shrugs–what caused conversation was the FCC ruling. Your slippery slope does not apply to everyone and frankly, is pretty much all in your own head. Again, I ask you to do what the conservative side of the aisle states is the Truth and the Way: get up off your ass, talk to your kids, turn off your TV. Why is Nannystate only good when it’s for a conservative cause? What hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/109 "2006-08-15T14:22:34Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Oh, I think anyone around here who is both honest and familiar with my history knows I’m not afraid of a fight. [/QUOTE] You’re not afraid of slinging insults, but this sure ain’t the first time you’ve come up with some excuse for refusing to engage in meaningful argument. > [@](#): > > You mean such reasoned discourse as asking for cites as to my hypothetical ‘Big Sister’ warping her sister’s mind, Again, you actually think it’s unreasonable to ask you to discuss the matter in terms of _actual evidence_ rather than made up stories? Simply unreal. > [@](#): > > or such seasoned recourse as his saying that people were polite and mannerly in the fifties because they’d exploited blacks? That seasoned recourse? _Reasoned_ discourse. “Seasoned discourse” would be discourse with eleven secret herbs and spices. And, since my point seems to have totally eluded you, I was challenging your suggestion that there was anything particularly mannerly about the fantasy version of the “old days” you were describing. I don’t like talking with you. Having to dumb down my arguments to your level is irritating. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/110 "2006-08-15T14:42:45Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] You mean such reasoned discourse as asking for cites as to my hypothetical ‘Big Sister’ warping her sister’s mind, or such seasoned recourse as his saying that people were polite and mannerly in the fifties because they’d exploited blacks? _That_ seasoned recourse?:rolleyes: [/quote] No, because as anyone who’s read this thread can tell, you just made that shit up out of whole cloth. > [@](#): > > No, you weren’t worth the trouble before that and I said so before that. Scroll back up, asshole, because you’ve got things out of sequence. _You_ made the claim that Limbaugh had more money than Carlin, I said, “Cite?” and _then_ you suddenly decided that I wasn’t worth the trouble of arguing with. Grow a pair and admit you’re beat. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/111 "2006-08-15T14:50:11Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] _Fuck you very much the FCC Fuck you very much for fining me Five thousand bucks a fuck so I’m really out of luck Thats more than Heidi Fliess was charging me. So fuck you very much the FCC For proving that free speech just isn’t free Clear Channel’s a dear channel so Howard Stern must go Attorney General Ashcroft doesn’t like strong words and so He’s charging twice as much as all the drugs for Rush Limbo so Fuck you all so very much._ - Eric Idle. The NSFW song is available at the official Monthy Pyton website by scrolling down: > **[FCC Song](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_FCC_Song)** > > "FCC Song" is a deliberately controversial and explicit song by British-born Monty Python comic Eric Idle. Idle, who later became a resident of the U.S. state of California, recorded the song in early 2004 in reaction to a fine by the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC) for saying "fuck" on a radio station. The song is also known by its refrain "fuck you very much". Despite being nominally aimed at the FCC, the lyrics primarily target well-known figures associated with the George W. Bush... [/QUOTE] And that, friends, is why we love Eric Idle. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/112 "2006-08-15T17:42:26Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Yes, I see your point. Just look at those Taliban-style theocrats that populated this country during the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and first half of the 60s…you know, prior to the advent of liberal ideology actually gaining a foothold? One wonders how this country managed to survive, and its people managed to be relatively happy, polite, civilized and act like adults for 200 years without the right to spout “bullshit” from a public venue. Oh, the horror! How _did_ they ever survive? :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Oh, I just love that little collective false-memory. I have great aunts in their 80s who have been every bit as liberal as the status quo on this board since they were old enough to form complete sentences. My wife’s grandparents adopted liberal viewpoints in their 70s after a lifetime of conservatism. Surely it wasn’t nostalgia for that liberal Eden they grew up in that forced them to make that choice. My grandfather (god rest his soul) was going to vote Democrat for the first time in his life in the last election. Surely that’s not the best way for him to get back to the wonder years of his youth, before liberal ideology actually gained a foothold? Like it or not, not everybody looked and acted like the Cleavers until Jimi Hendrix picked up a guitar. This country needs another “Silent Majority” speech. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/113 "2006-08-15T17:59:51Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] This country needs another “Silent Majority” speech. [/QUOTE] You mean like, “I think the majority of wrong thinking people are sick and tired of being told that they’re right!”? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/114 "2006-08-15T18:03:25Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] You’re right, that’s what you suspect…yet you offer no proof that this is correct. Given that I didn’t offer proof myself, it appears we have a situation here in which we simply disagree…yes, no? [/quote] Well, one point in my favor is that people are actively buying/consuming the “objectionable” material in droves. The market says that people are fine with their “vulgar” popular culture. And it’s been amply shown that the most vocal complaints are manufactured by a small political pressure group. I admit, I don’t have slam-dunk, iron-clad proof that I’m right, but I’ve got _something_. Which, again, is more than you’ve got. > [@](#): > > I don’t believe I ever asserted such a grassroots movement exists. I merely said people are fed-up with the permissiveness that has come to pervade this society and are voting accordingly. I think those are effectively the same thing, no? > [@](#): > > Look at all the stuff I’m pissed off about, yet I’ve never complained to anyone other than a few friends and people on a message board. I suspect most people are the same way. It’s specious to contend that unless one can be shown to have complained to some government agency that no such complaint exists. Not nearly a specious as to claim these complaints exist when no one seems to have actually made any. If it’s unfair of me to assume that people who haven’t complained aren’t really bothered, isn’t it even more unfair for you to say that people who haven’t complained really are bothered? > [@](#): > > It would certainly seem so based on the sentiments expressed in this thread. One gets the feeling it’s a source of high dudgeon for most of the posters around here that the government (and especially under Bush) should try to prohibit anyone from saying and/or showing anything they want. Well, you know us liberals. We’re all about small government and the free market. > [@](#): > > And if you’ll permit me, your logic is the one which is lacking. How can you look at what has occured in rap music and claim that television would not become a cesspool of vulgarity, profanity and vulgarity if all standards were eliminated? Because I’ve actually looked at (or, even more effective, _listened to_) rap music. Yeah, sure, there’s a lot of crap out there. There’s also a lot of really good, non-obscene stuff being produced. The pornographic stuff has not crowded all the other rap music out of the market by any means. As usual, you are trying to prove your point by reference to a subject about which you know nothing, and which actually undercuts the very point you try to make. > [@](#): > > Boy, you guys are really fixated on the word “bullshit” aren’t you? Isn’t this argument really a bit disingenuous? You know as well as I do that “bullshit” isn’t the one and only word where this issue is going to come up, and you know fully well that “bullshit” is merely a door-opener for more offensive words to follow. You want to agree to side with me completely should I agree that the use of the word “bullshit” is permissable but that no other currently prohibited word will ever be permitted? If not, then you tacitly admit that you have a larger agenda than you’re trying to appear to have and you expose yourself as the disingenuous hypocrite that I already know you to be. Of course, should you agree that as long as “bullshit” is the only prohibited word you will ever champion, I will be happy to retract my accusations of hypocrisy and disingenuousness. I’m not entirely certain what you’re accusing me of, here. Why don’t you try rephrasing it in English and get back to me? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/115 "2006-08-15T18:05:45Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Well, you know us liberals. We’re all about small government and the free market. [/QUOTE] \ ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/116 "2006-08-15T18:05:55Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] _Reasoned_ discourse. “Seasoned discourse” would be discourse with eleven secret herbs and spices. [/quote] It seems I wanted to add a little spice to my comments. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/117 "2006-08-15T18:11:11Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] It seems I wanted to add a little spice to my comments. [/QUOTE] Or it could be a polite euphemism for old discourse. You know, discourse of a certain age. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/118 "2006-08-15T19:36:12Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] I’m sorry, but I just really have a hard time believing that society was more polite, mannerly, civilized and adult back then [/QUOTE] Oh, really. The levels of public invective (to take one obvious measure of impoliteness and incivility) reached in “the good old days” would make _Farenheit 9-11_ and the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth look like the two sides of a sedate McNeill Lehrer Hour discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/119 "2006-08-15T19:41:14Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] You’re right, that’s what you suspect…yet you offer no proof that this is correct. [QUOTE] Sorry; the proof against you was cited, with source, [[URL=boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7676185&postcount=35](http://URL=boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7676185&postcount=35)] earlier in this very thread. > [@](#): > > Given that I didn’t offer proof myself, it appears we have a situation here in which we simply disagree…yes, no? No. The actual appearance of the situation is that we have one side that is honest and one side which is dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523/120 "2006-08-15T19:42:18Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] You’re right, that’s what you suspect…yet you offer no proof that this is correct. [/QUOTE] Sorry; the proof against you was cited, with source, [[URL=boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7676185&postcount=35](http://URL=boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7676185&postcount=35)] earlier in this very thread. > [@](#): > > Given that I didn’t offer proof myself, it appears we have a situation here in which we simply disagree…yes, no? No. The actual appearance of the situation is that we have one side that is honest and one side which is dishonest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-sticks-it-to-the-man/368523.md?page=7)