# PBS To Ban Religious Shows **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 18, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232 "2009-06-18T23:32:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/1 "2009-06-18T23:32:47Z")
From MSNBC: > [@](#): > > The Public Broadcasting Service agreed yesterday to ban its member stations from airing new religious TV programs, but permitted the handful of stations that already carry “sectarian” shows to continue doing so… > > …Until now, PBS stations have been required to present programming that is noncommercial, nonpartisan and nonsectarian. But the definition of “nonsectarian” programming was always loosely interpreted, and the rule had never been strictly enforced. Full story at [MSNBC](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31400910/ns/us_news-washington_post/) Just wondering what you think? I am putting this in Cafe Society 'cause it’s TV but it’s kind of a poll, so please move if incorrect. I think that it is OK but I feel they should allow an exception if the market is very small and their are no other options and it’s open to any church or religion. I can also see PBS doing this now because with digital TV, stations now can run one man channel and up to five other subchannels (if they don’t do HDTV), which means more access for groups, at least in theory. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/2 "2009-06-19T02:48:10Z")
Maybe it varies from region to region, but… WHAT religious programming does PBS have? I never see any here (of course, Austin has an access station devoted exclusively to religious shows). ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/3 "2009-06-19T11:56:54Z")
The link in the OP is dead so I investigated. According to [the Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/16/AR2009061603201.html), the real story is that PBS _had_ considered a ban on religious programming per its charter. This is a compromise stating no _new_ religious programming would be allowed. > [@](#): > > The vote at PBS’s headquarters in Arlington was good news for five PBS member stations that carry religious programs. Among them are KBYU in Salt Lake City, which is operated by an affiliate of the Mormon Church; KMBH in Harlingen, Tex., operated by the local Catholic diocese; and WLAE in New Orleans, operated by a Catholic lay organization. The few stations carrying religious programming will be allowed to continue, “religious programming” being defined as shows sponsored by specific denominations. Houston’s PBS runs lots of shows featuring religion–from the standpoints of history, visual arts & music–and will continue to do so. Just no preaching! This really isn’t much of a story. Or is it? The _Post_’s regular [religion columnist, David Waters](http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2009/06/pbs_sectarian_neighborhood.html) states there are actually 6 stations with religious programming and seems to think the religious programmers got off lightly: > [@](#): > > Should the PBS board have paid less attention to the handful of religious programs and looked more closely at their religious programmers? > > …should religious organizations be using taxpayer supported public television to carry out sectarian missions? And tosses in a hateful quote from that disgrace to the Irish, William Donohue of the Catholic League. Which I won’t reproduce; follow the link if you like. A _Post_ columnist, [Michael Gerson](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2009/06/pbss_new_ban_on_religious_prog.html) briefly states the reality that this is not much of a story. Then gets up on his soapbox about being forced to listen to That Leftist Bill Moyers on PBS. And being exposed to That “Naturalist” Carl Sagan in his youth. (He claims Sagan was preaching “Naturalism”–good with words, this guy isn’t.) Fox headlines [the story](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/16/pbs-begin-phasing-religious-programming-airwaves/): **PBS to Begin Phasing Out Religious Programming From Airwaves; PBS board members have decided to enforce a rule barring religious broadcasts in a move that spells the beginning of the end for most spiritual shows like Catholic Masses and Mormon devotionals on public television.** If you actually read the story, they admit that the headline is a lie–but “some groups say is a quiet means of phasing out religion from their airwaves.” (Meanwhile, here in Houston, according to the Houston Chronicle, the digital switch allows KETH to offer “four religion-oriented channels in addition to its Trinity Broadcasting Network schedule.” The airwaves seem to be doing just fine–if “airwaves” is the right word in Our Brave New Digital World.) Well, that’s Fox… I can’t wait to see how this story is twisted. The harpies at Concerned Women for America haven’t covered it yet. They are still pissed at PBS for daring to present a series on [Evolution](http://www.cwfa.org/articles/236/CFI/cfreport/index.htm). Hey, they’re also using “naturalism” wrong! > [@](#): > > One of the reasons that PBS ignored Intelligent Design theorists is the naturalistic worldview of the program’s creators, as typified by Evolution spokesman Dr. Jane Goodall. According to Goodall, it is evolutionary theory that gives meaning to life. > > “If we truly understand Darwin’s theory that this all began with one little tiny organism millions and millions of years ago, then we can feel joy in our relationship with nature,” Goodall said in a July 26 PBS press release. “We’re not apart from it, it’s part of us and we’re part of it.” Darn PBS for carrying trash like that! ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/4 "2009-06-19T12:54:50Z")
Are they also banning New Age woo spirituality specials too? While I don’t want religious shows on my PBS, they aren’t so much an infestation as the Intentionality types. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/5 "2009-06-19T13:13:37Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Are they also banning New Age woo spirituality specials too? While I don’t want religious shows on my PBS, they aren’t so much an infestation as the Intentionality types. Just let your local PBS station know when you dislike a program. (I’m not being so crass as to suggest you switch the channel. Children’s programming, for instance, is worthless to me. But I realize there are kids in the community.) Threaten to let your membership lapse & your local station will listen! ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/6 "2009-06-19T13:17:30Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Are they also banning New Age woo spirituality specials too? While I don’t want religious shows on my PBS, they aren’t so much an infestation as the Intentionality types. Actually we should just end PBS. Why should we have to pay taxes to support anyone’s message? ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/7 "2009-06-19T15:07:55Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > If you actually read the story, they admit that the headline is a lie–but “some groups say is a quiet means of phasing out religion from their airwaves.” (Meanwhile, here in Houston, according to the Houston Chronicle, the digital switch allows KETH to offer “four religion-oriented channels in addition to its Trinity Broadcasting Network schedule.” The airwaves seem to be doing just fine–if “airwaves” is the right word in Our Brave New Digital World.) When I re-scanned for channels after the digital TV switch, I had 24 channels. I would not be stretching the truth too much if I said about 12 of them are religious channels. And I don’t even live in any sort of Bible belt! Religious programming is very alive and well on the television. Losing some of the programming on PBS will not put much of a dent in that! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/8 "2009-06-19T15:17:07Z")
I wish my dish network would offer a way to block the religious channels. We have them all over the selection guide. I could flip through the channels faster if they were gone. I would also like to see the shopping channels blocked. Paying for cable to watch a station that has 24 hr a day commercials is just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/9 "2009-06-19T15:30:32Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I wish my dish network would offer a way to block the religious channels. We have them all over the selection guide. I could flip through the channels faster if they were gone. I would also like to see the shopping channels blocked. Paying for cable to watch a station that has 24 hr a day commercials is just wrong. Yeah, having filters on your channel guide would be awesome. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/10 "2009-06-19T15:39:49Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Actually we should just end PBS. Why should we have to pay taxes to support anyone’s message? Don’t think I would have seen Nova, or Nature anywhere else growing up without cable access. Both shows nurtured an interest in science and learning that’s served me very well. Ending PBS would increase ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/11 "2009-06-19T16:13:52Z")
Or _Sesame Street_! (Mister Rogers started out locally, actually, so I might have been able to catch him.) I didn’t have cable growing up, until I was about 11. I would imagine that performances of religious music pieces like say, Bach, or Handel, or Schubert, would be an acception? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/12 "2009-06-19T16:19:21Z")
I ask again: WHAT kind of religious programs are PBS affiliates around the country actually broadcasting? In Austin, the answer is “none,” so this move makes no difference to me or my neighbors (who all have plenty of other outlets for religious programs anyway). For that matter, I can’t remember seeing any explicitly religious programming on WNET when I was growing up in New York. Oh, I’ve seen LOTS of hokey, New Agey stuff, but I suspect Deepak Chopra is not in danger of being “banned.” So… what religious programs are actually being broadcast where you live? Billy Graham crusades? A Catholic Mass for elderly/handicapped people who can’t make it to Church in person? Roundtable discussions featuring assorted clergy? Sister Wendy talking about Renaissance art? Let’s get specific. What religious programs have you SEEN on PBS, and what makes them objectionable, in your eyes? I tend to agree that PBS is not the place for denominational programs, especially when there are many other outlets for such shows. But I’m not yet convinced that too much religious content on PBS is a serious or widespread problem. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/13 "2009-06-19T17:19:24Z")
I (also) don’t recall having ever seen anything that even approached preaching on PBS, unless you count docs about the history of religions or dirt poor Appalachian families. Like any good atheist, I totally eat these up. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/14 "2009-06-19T17:20:33Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Don’t think I would have seen Nova, or Nature anywhere else growing up without cable access. Both shows nurtured an interest in science and learning that’s served me very well. > > Ending PBS would increase ignorance. I agree, but I was being a bit sarcastic, because if everyone had their way regarding what PBS should and shouldn’t air they wouldn’t be able to air anything. There are certainly people out there who are offended by Nova and Nature. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/15 "2009-06-19T17:25:06Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > There are certainly people out there who are offended by Nova and Nature. I agree. Especialy if they have shows about grackles. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/16 "2009-06-19T17:26:42Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > I agree. > > Especialy if they have shows about grackles. Grackles? Is there some evolutionary aspect to grackles that would make them offensive? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/17 "2009-06-19T17:33:19Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I ask again: WHAT kind of religious programs are PBS affiliates around the country actually broadcasting? I think **Bridget** answered this pretty thoroughly in the 3rd post. A few PBS affiliates were run by religious groups and included preaching, but that these were relatively rare. > [@](#): > > I agree, but I was being a bit sarcastic, because if everyone had their way regarding what PBS should and shouldn’t air they wouldn’t be able to air anything. There are certainly people out there who are offended by Nova and Nature. True, but this doesn’t seem to be so much a case where people were complaining as religious programming violated the “sectarian” part of PBS’s charter. People can complain about the evolution related shows on PBS all they want, but I doubt PBS’s charter has anything about “no Darwin”. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/18 "2009-06-19T17:36:14Z")
PBS is out to ban religious shows as such, not shows that are examining religion from an acedemic standpoint. Kind of like in school when they taught comparative religion. You could have a show about Jesus or Muhammed or Moses or Joseph Smith, as long as it was presented as factual. The reason religous channels seem to be on cable more is simply they are free. Cable companies want to offer content to make it look like they are giving you something. If they offer you free “entertainment type channels” you are apt not to purchase the next tier, because your getting comedy or drama on the cheapest tier. So that is just marketing, there are PBS stations that carry religous church services. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/19 "2009-06-19T18:17:15Z")
I think the best argument against the ban, or for the current compromise, is to consider rural areas. PBS stations aren’t fully federally funded. They get some amount of federal funding, probably some state, and some local non-profit funding. Wikipedia says state + federal funding is less than 50%. If they were fully funded by government, there would be a logical argument against religious programming (separation of church and state). If they were completely local non-profits, they would be free to have whatever religious programs they wanted. However, what we have is this hybrid, part government, part non-profit, providing a good that is in some sense unitary. In a major urban area, channels will proliferate and there probably isn’t a need for PBS to broadcast Catholic mass to shut-ins. In a rural area, though, PBS is in control of the public sector airwaves, although it doesn’t pay all the bills. A compromise that respects the local nonprofit aspect of the public television station to serve the community need by broadcasting a religious show may be reasonable. Perhaps there should be some standard by which government money is not used to fund any of the variable costs associated with religious programming. All in all, though, I think the media landscape has changed so much since public television was designed that we’d be better off scrapping the current system and figuring out exactly where public intervention is needed. Maybe we go to around-the-clock low-impact aerobics. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232/20 "2009-06-19T18:22:08Z")
WTTW broadcasts [30 Good Minutes](http://www.csec.org/about.htm), as they have since 1956. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pbs-to-ban-religious-shows/500232.md?page=2)