# PC Gaming. Is it dying? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 9, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986 "2010-11-09T02:05:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/121 "2010-11-13T05:50:28Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > Oh, and for the folks who keep holding up Steam as why PC gaming is thriving… I have a question. How many of the games you’ve bought on Steam have been for full price? I get the distinct impression from reading this thread that a lot of people are, like me, using Steam as a sort of “bargain bin” where you pick up all the stuff you missed out on for, essentially, pennies on the dollar. While this is great for people playing PC games, again, I’m not sure how much revenue it’s really generating for the developers. While I’m sure there are titles (Civ V, stuff by Valve) that come out on Steam and sell a lot of full priced copies new, I suspect most of the stuff people buy off Steam is part of the great “Steam Sales” that sell things for mighty cheap. And well, a glorified, very nice bargain bin is great for bargain hunters, but I’m not sure it speaks well for the health of the platform overall. To be fair, Steam as a bargain-bin does vastly extend the profit-making life of games for publishers. I, as a gamer, am much less likely to pirate Civilization 3 when I can grab it on Steam, hassle-free, for five bucks. Five years ago I’d have pirated it; last month, I paid for it. Residual profits like that may help bolster the industry if publishers think that the profitable life of a game is not limited to the eighteen months it spends on shelves, and it may also reduce piracy, especially very late piracy. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/122 "2010-11-13T08:30:48Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Actually, I think it rather is- at least in this part of the world. Digital sales here haven’t taken off to the huge extent they have in the US due to the slow average speed and data limits on broadband here, along with exchange rate issues and a mistrust of spending a lot of money for a product with no physical presence (ie a game disc). > > To be fair, EB Games and JB Hi Fi etc do have the latest release PC games, so there’s no issue getting “Big” releases, but B-side releases can be more work if you’re determined to get a legitimate copy on disc. Fair enough it was a little shortsighted to say ‘most’ without considering the entire world. I was just remembering an article I read about a week ago on the BBC about how digital sales in the last six months outpaced in store sales. Of course that same article (to be fair to the people arguing the other side of this) also mentioned that PC game sales were down compared to last year though I don’t think it said anything about if the entire games industry was also down or just PC games. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/123 "2010-11-13T12:51:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Speaking as a guy who plays games on both, because it’s simply easier to download large games on the PC than it is on my PS3. The big titles simply cannot be purchased through D/L on my PS3. If they could be, I’d buy them that way, but they can’t, at least not that I’ve seen. Fair enough. I had assumed that such services had become more comprehensive since I heard that COD: black ops was available on Games on Demand. But consider my point again: if flourishing online services are mutually exclusive to a retail presence, why haven’t we seen a hit on the consoles? Why aren’t major retailers getting out of selling games in anticipation of their online services growing. Clearly a large reason is that many games require specific hardware. But also, lots of people prefer a physical product, either for themselves or when giving games as a gift. Or just buy on impulse while shopping. If anything the PC format benefits most from impulsive buyers, as it has more budget games and games that target people just walking by (i.e. games where it’s not expected that you’d have heard of the game before, so the box will be like “Train Simulator: Run your own train network!”. > [@](#): > > Same reason the PS3 section always looks the same: FPS’s, sports, and guitar games. I wasn’t talking genres though, I mean specific games: the sims, WoW, and very, very old budget games such as Hotel Giant. There’s much more turnover on the console racks. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/124 "2010-11-13T13:13:38Z")
What about the target markets? Do consoles cater to younger gamers? ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/125 "2010-11-13T13:57:19Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Fair enough. I had assumed that such services had become more comprehensive since I heard that COD: black ops was available on Games on Demand. > > But consider my point again: if flourishing online services are mutually exclusive to a retail presence, why haven’t we seen a hit on the consoles? Why aren’t major retailers getting out of selling games in anticipation of their online services growing. Well PC games have had the technology to go online for ages now but until fairly recently it was pretty much an untapped market. It takes awhile for the culture to change. I remember when Steam came out and I rolled my eyes at it. Who would buy a game online when I could have a box and a manual? Do I want some 3rd party program managing my games? Console gaming is just starting to reach that point. They’ve only recently gotten the Harddrive space to download games but the culture still is ‘go to the store and buy the game’ not ‘boot up and see what’s online and maybe go to the store if I can’t find it’. I don’t know the current state of the offerings on the online services for consoles but I doubt they are as mature as Steam/Impulse/Direct2Drive Also online presence isn’t mutually exclusive to a physical store if it was there would be no more music/movie/book stores left. PC games just vanished from the shelves because the console market grew much much quicker then PC market. They saw what was making more profit and cut the shelf space. Heck I worked for Wal-Mart for a year and I saw that kind of thinking all the time. It didn’t matter if an item was making money or not. If they saw something that could make more the other item was gone or pushed to the back of the store. > [@](#): > > Clearly a large reason is that many games require specific hardware. > > But also, lots of people prefer a physical product, either for themselves or when giving games as a gift. Or just buy on impulse while shopping. Ugh tell me about the gift thing. I tell my family all the time to gift me a steam game and I’m told ‘but that means you won’t have anything to open!’. _sigh_ > [@](#): > > If anything the PC format benefits most from impulsive buyers, as it has more budget games and games that target people just walking by (i.e. games where it’s not expected that you’d have heard of the game before, so the box will be like “Train Simulator: Run your own train network!”. Impulse buys? Steam is known for people buying up anything they put on sale or all the indie developers they have promoted. People snap up impulse games all the time. I’ve bought at least 10 games I would never have picked up at a store just because it is a few clicks away. If you have a customer base that logs into your ‘store’ everyday to play games I think the chances for impulse buys are much much greater. You get to flash your current list of games and whatever you want to put on sale and tempt them with a click. > [@](#): > > I wasn’t talking genres though, I mean specific games: the sims, WoW, and very, very old budget games such as Hotel Giant. > There’s much more turnover on the console racks. Can’t argue with brick and mortar stores not being the place to shop for PC games. That does make me a little sad. I remember when I moved up here and saw that a local grocery store stocked PC games right next to my house. Sadly the Wii pretty much destroyed that section. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/126 "2010-11-13T14:25:16Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > What about the target markets? Do consoles cater to younger gamers? Absolutely, especially if we’re talking pre-teen. I wouldn’t blame this on the developers. Until recently, it didn’t make sense to make non-educational PC titles aimed at young people. There weren’t enough children that had regular access to a PC that wasn’t the family’s main, workhorse PC. And they may need someone older to help them install a game. And generally I feel it is history that’s the PC’s problem. You could make a case that _now_ the PC platform has a lot of advantages next to consoles, and games on this platform can capture a wide audience. But it may take a long time and require a much more serious push for the casual market. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/127 "2010-11-14T11:06:30Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > What about the target markets? Do consoles cater to younger gamers? Isn’t that pretty much the Wii’s entire _raison d’etre_? Kids and non-“Gamer Chick” women? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/128 "2010-11-14T11:11:35Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Isn’t that pretty much the Wii’s entire _raison d’etre_? Kids and non-“Gamer Chick” women? No. If anything, the Wii was successful because it brought in an older demographics. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/129 "2010-11-14T11:21:27Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > No. If anything, the Wii was successful because it brought in an older demographics. Hence the “Non-Gamer Chick Women” category. It’s marketed here pretty heavily towards “Families” and “Trendy Twenty/Thirtysomething Women” with a special emphasis on _WiiFit_. It’s not aimed at guys or serious gamers (although as both, I will admit there are some fun Wii games.) ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/130 "2010-11-14T11:28:47Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It’s not aimed at guys or serious gamers (although as both, I will admit there are some fun Wii games.) I disagree with the “serious gamers” part–the majority of games Nintendo makes are still aimed at them, unless you’re arguing the markets of Nintendo’s past consoles weren’t serious gamers either. With that said, it is clear that they put a much stronger emphases on targeting “non-serious” gamers, but I wouldn’t say it was at any significant expense thereof. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/131 "2010-11-14T11:58:29Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > I disagree with the “serious gamers” part–the majority of games Nintendo makes are still aimed at them, unless you’re arguing the markets of Nintendo’s past consoles weren’t serious gamers either. > > With that said, it is clear that they put a much stronger emphases on targeting “non-serious” gamers, but I wouldn’t say it was at any significant expense thereof. Most of the “real” games I’ve seen on the Wii are, at best, not-quite-as-good counterparts to their PS3/X360/PC Versions, and most of the games (at least the ones getting releases here) are very “Casual” or definitely not for the “Serious” gamer. Sure, there are things like _Metroid: Other M_, _GoldenEye_ and _Mario[Something]_ and I think some of the _Guitar/Band Hero_ games on it, but the last time I was in an EB Games (yesterday, actually) the vast, vast, VAST majority of Wii games could be described as being “Family” or “Party Game” titles, "Fitness"or “WiiSports” type games, and various other games that can generously be described as “Casual”. It’s just not a “Serious” gaming platform, IMHO, and trying to claim it is strikes me as trying to enter a Nissan Pulsar in the Le Mans 24 Hour race and expecting it to do well because Nissan have made sports cars before. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/132 "2010-11-14T13:20:24Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It’s just not a “Serious” gaming platform, IMHO, and trying to claim it is strikes me as trying to enter a Nissan Pulsar in the Le Mans 24 Hour race and expecting it to do well because Nissan have made sports cars before. Just because some third parties put out shovelware does not mean the Wii isn’t a serious platform. Or are you going to ignore the multiple Resident Evil games from Capcom or Sega’s MadWorld or High Voltage’s The Conduit or Activision’s GoldenEye remake? And then there’s Nintendo’s entire output, which may be family-friendly, but is not casual. It’d be like saying The Godfather isn’t a real movie because Francis Ford Coppola also made Jack. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/133 "2010-11-14T22:34:27Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Just because some third parties put out shovelware does not mean the Wii isn’t a serious platform. The ratio of “Shovelware” to “Serious Games” on the Wii is heavily weighted towards “Shovelware”, at least in this part of the world. > [@](#): > > Or are you going to ignore the multiple Resident Evil games from Capcom or Sega’s MadWorld or High Voltage’s The Conduit or Activision’s GoldenEye remake? I’ve acknowledged the GoldenEye remake and Nintendo’s own games already, haven’t played the Wii Version of Resident Evil but if it’s anything like Dead Rising it will be fun but not as good as the “Big” console version, and I’ve never seen the other two games for sale here. I stand by my argument. If you lot in North America are getting lots of “Serious, Quality Games” for the Wii then good for you. They’re not on the shelves here. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/134 "2010-11-14T23:02:07Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > The ratio of “Shovelware” to “Serious Games” on the Wii is heavily weighted towards “Shovelware”, at least in this part of the world. Well, the ratio of “shovel wear” to “serious games” is a complete non-factor. Using this metric, even the PS2 wasn’t "aimed"at serious gamers. The original point was was type of gamer the Wii was “aimed” at, and Nintendo is the one who decided that, and I feel it’s pretty clear that their self-developed software library reflects my earlier points. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/135 "2010-11-15T02:56:31Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > The original point was was type of gamer the Wii was “aimed” at, and Nintendo is the one who decided that, and I feel it’s pretty clear that their self-developed software library reflects my earlier points. On top of that, the Wii has more power than the PS2, Xbox and GameCube. Were those systems just for casual gamers too? There’s nothing inherent about the Wii that makes it a lesser system. And the only way you can pigeonhole it as one is to ignore the hundreds of “real” games available for it. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/136 "2010-11-15T08:28:34Z")
Wherever you lot think these “Hundreds” of “Serious” or “Real” games for the Wii are, they’re sure as hell _not_ on the shelves in any of the major gaming retailers that I’ve visited. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/137 "2010-11-15T08:46:40Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Wherever you lot think these “Hundreds” of “Serious” or “Real” games for the Wii are, they’re sure as hell _not_ on the shelves in any of the major gaming retailers that I’ve visited. I didn’t mention a number. I’m merely stating Nintendo themselves is targeting their core audience no less than in previous generations. The only different is that they’re now also targeting others as well. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/138 "2010-11-15T10:14:47Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Wherever you lot think these “Hundreds” of “Serious” or “Real” games for the Wii are, they’re sure as hell _not_ on the shelves in any of the major gaming retailers that I’ve visited. I don’t think we need to make lists, again, so just read through the Wii game catalog yourself: > **[List of Wii games](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wii_games)** > > The Wii is Nintendo's fifth home video game console, released during the seventh generation of video games. It is the successor to the GameCube, and was first launched in North America on November 19, 2006, followed by a launch in Japan and PAL regions in December 2006. > This list of Wii games documents all games released for the Wii video game console. The list of GameCube games lists the GameCube games compatible with the Wii’s backwards compatibility (although later Wii models removed the co... Regardless of what definition of “real” game you use, you’ll hit 100 before you get to H and there’s a few hundred more after that. ETA: It’s also important to note that the [PS3](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_3_games) and [Xbox 360](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_360_games) catalogs are considerably smaller than the Wii catalog. So when you remove all the shovelware, the three systems likely have comparable amounts of “real” games. It’s just that the Wii is so cheap to develop for (and so dominant in market share), that a lot of companies are putting out stuff they’d never put out on the PS3 or Xbox 360. See also: the DS, the PSone, and the PS2. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/139 "2010-11-18T12:38:30Z")
> [@mil0](#): > > Take for example, the recent Call of Duty: Black Ops (or CODBLOPS), I’ve been told that there were three million players on Xbox Live, vs. about 80,000 on PC at last night’s prime time. These numbers don’t add up. The Steam community outnumbers the xbox live community by over 5 million. That’s people with FREE xbox live accounts, not the gold membership you need to play online, IIRC. At this time last year Steam JUST broke it’s 2 million concurrently connected xbox gamers while Steam fields about 3 million concurrent connections every day (many million individual gamers every day). According to sales figures Black ops sold about 5 million units by that time across xbox, PS3 and PC. Are you telling me that they managed to get EVERY single copy sold on xbox 360 playing online? Something that no other game in xbox 360 history has done? Haven’t heard of any record breaking news about the number of people on xbox live. I’m really doubting those numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986/140 "2010-11-18T12:45:34Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > The Steam community outnumbers the xbox live community by over 5 million. That’s people with FREE xbox live accounts, not the gold membership you need to play online, IIRC. As posted above, there are slightly more Xbox 360s in the world than FREE Steam accounts. So any comparison between the two is pretty useless as you don’t know who signed up for Steam for one game versus how many people use it regularly and you don’t know who has Live Gold versus who has Live Silver. But I dug up the real numbers, it appears to be 1,000,000 (which was tweeted by Treyarch’s community manager) versus 122,000 (which Steam was showing at the time of the tweet). > **[StockExaminer - AI-Powered Stock Chatbot](https://examiner.com)** > > Discover Stock Examiner, the AI-powered chatbot delivering instant, interactive stock charts, real-time financials, breaking news, stock screeners, and more—all in one seamless experience. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-gaming-is-it-dying/559986.md?page=8)