This question I feel is poised in such a way that makes it near unanswerable, but in the sake of trying I’ll give it a shot. Note that, while none of these games are revolutionary, they all do a lot to further their respective genres.
Uncharted 2
Heavy Rain
Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 2
Red Dead Redemption
Demon’s Souls
LittleBigPlanet
And that’s just the PS3.
Tell that to the giant corporations that do research and realize that most PC gamers don’t seem to want sports games (or fighting games for that matter). Playing with a gamepad does on a PC does seem to be an impediment for a lot of PC gamers, as EA executives talked about a lot during their financial briefings a few years ago.
And Beef man, you’re like my Fantasy Football Yoda, but you drive me nuts in PC vs console threads. You’re convinced consoles are killing your hobby, but that’s not true at all. Money is changing the way games get developed nowadays and that would be happening even if consoles were still a few steps lower than PCs like they used to be.
It used to be that something groundbreaking like Doom could be developed by a team of five guys in between a little petty vandalism and rounds of Super Mario Kart (and a part of me loves that Carmack and Romero were Mario Kart fiends as they were making one of the greatest shooters of all time). They got the most of the PCs that existed at the time and would exist for years after. That doesn’t happen anymore because it takes a lot of money to go the extra mile from what consoles are capable of to what PCs are capable of. It has nothing to do with “consolization” and everything to do with stacks of green paper. Again, listen to any executive for more than a few minutes, they’ll tell you all about it.
There’s plenty of good stuff coming out of all corners of the gaming community and to say that one side holds the patent on innovation (or one is responsible for RUINING GAMING FOREVER!) is just silly.
Me neither. We got Fallout New Vegas last month and Divinity 2: The Dragon Knight Saga this month. The Witcher 2 will be released in january and Dragon Age 2 in march. It’s a good time to be a RPG’er. 
Digital sales have different sunk costs. You’ve got to pay for the bandwidth for product distribution, you’ve got to pay for redundant server farms, you’ve got to pay for the people to run them, you’ve still got to advertise, and so on.
I think Beef’s point was not that they don’t have ANY sunk costs, but that the difference is quite large. Sunk costs for digital downloads are negligible compared to those for retail. As has been stated here and by numerous developers/publishers.
I think ultimately what we are saying, and the only thing that truly matters in an answer to the question: “Is PC gaming dying?”, is that there exists a market for PC games, a large and growing one.
30 million customers on Steam alone, plus several other digital avenues. You also have retail where and when it makes since for your game. That’s comparable to both xbox 360 and PS3, and that’s why devs continue to make PC games.
I’ve bought more PC games in the past 4 years than the previous 10. And I say that as someone who winces when he actually examines the line item entertainment budget at the end of the year. Steam made it easy. I’ve got some D2D games. Some GOG game. Some Blizzard games. Steam’s the best, and it’s my preference.
But the important thing for me is that the retailers created a self fulfilling prophecy. When game piracy became an issue, retailers stopped taking returns on games, even if the problem was caused by DRM. And they began a reduction in stock to the point where most Gamestops have 1 shelf of PC games, and usually it’s a hodgepodge of single titles that look worn and battered.
I made a choice, no more PC games from retail. I’m 6 years clean. Still get the rare occasional console games from retail, but I try to stick to online distributors because… hey… screw retailers who screwed me.
PC gaming is actually doing pretty well, in my opinion. There are a number of titles that are perfectly designed for PCs. Even some of the console ‘ports’ work out better for PC. Better graphics, better control schemes. Sure, there are plenty of ports that suck on PC too. But even then, you can generally get by with a gamepad and it still works ok.
Where it really excels is mid-range games. Steam has allowed a number of developers to make the $20-$30 price point. Too expensive for a casual game, so it has some serious development to it. But it’s short of the $60 price point for mega releases. I’ve got dozens of them that I bought because I was bored one nice, and browsed through the Steam Catalog.
My only true regret for PC gaming is the loss of some of the niche genres. There hasn’t been a good city builder for years. Really, the entire god-game genre. A few others have good the wayside as well. RTS is a far cry from it’s hayday, though it at least has a handful of games trying to fill the niche. Non-japanese RPGs are fairly weak as well.
All told, next year, I have 19 big titles on my PC list. And I can’t wait 
Or at least, why they continue to port the games they make for consoles to PC, which is what got this whole thread started in the first place.
The marketplace as a whole is not treating the PC as a leading gaming platform. They’re treating it, at best, as on par with any given console (i.e. the titles that show up on it are generally the ones that also show up on the PS3 and 360.). There are also a lot of games being made exclusively for the PC outside of the traditional “PC gaming” space - MMOs, “social games”, and indie titles - but many PC gamers feel disenfranchised.
The sheer amount of frustration by the defenders of PC gaming in this thread makes it pretty clear to me that PC gaming is having some issues, otherwise, this discussion wouldn’t even be happening.
The fact of the matter is that the advantages of PC gaming are mattering less and less to most people. As graphics get better, then differences between “good enough” and “the best on the market” become less relevant. It’s similar to the slow rate of acceptance for Blu-Ray - lots of people just don’t care about the difference.
Oh, and for the record, the whole “What if my wife cleaned my desk and misplaced my game CD” thing made me laugh. That is all.
Non-MMO RPGs with an 80 or better or Metacritic (yes, I know Metacritic sucks) this calendar year: Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age - Awakening (expansion), Fallout: New Vegas. That’s the list. If you go back to the beginning of last November, you add Dragon Age and King’s Bounty: Armored Princess (‘expandalone’). Maybe I’m just a little bitter since, not liking the Oblivion/new-Fallout style games, I’ve been working through my RPG backlog since about March. Also, I could have played everything on that list except for King’s Bounty on my PS3 (albeit with a lesser experience in several of them).
Like I said, though, I’m a pretty happy PC gamer in general, because I’ve played a dozen or more games from the last 5-10 years this year at 50+% discounts thanks to Steam. It’s just been a kind of rough year for PC RPG types; a rough several years, actually. Everyone but BioWare, Bethesda, and Obsidian is pretty much out of the AAA-RPG game; we’re staking our hopes on Eastern Europe at this point, but there’s a necessary lack of budget that they’re dealing with compared to the attention the genre got in the Good Old Days.
My frustration is that I’ve had this argument over and over and over again. It feels like those threads about 9/11 that no matter how often they are dis-proven it’s only a matter of time before it comes up again. The discussion isn’t happening because PC gaming is in need of defence it happens because of the bizarre PC vs Console attitude that has been around since the days of the Super Nintendo.
Obviously the gaming industry has grown massively in the last ten years and during that time PC gaming hasn’t grown as quickly as the console side of it but that’s not even in the same ballpark as ‘dying’.
I personally feel it has the most to do with the several billion dollars these companies sink in to their consoles more than anything else. Moreover, given the state of the PC market and what I get from PC gaming that I don’t from console gaming, I’m not going to loose any sleep over it. “MOST” people don’t believe in evolution. “MOST” people are ignorant of “MOST” things.
As long as Steam and other companies continue to make PC gameing more attractive, by making it more approachable, and by showing off it’s versatility and power, I think we’ll be good for the foreseeable future.
It happens! Darn wife, always cleaning my stuff ::grumble::
This makes a difference. Oh no, little suzie sat on the game disc again. The wife cleaned up and now where the hell is my Halo DVD? Oh, someone knocked down the xbox when it was reading the disc… sucks to be you. Wait guys I want to join you in left 4 dead! I gotta exit my game… wait…wait…wait… ok remove disc…wait…wait.. insert disc…wait…wait..load game…wait…wait…wati..wait…wait…wait…join server…wait..wait.
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Yup - there’s that infomercial hyperbole I was hoping to be avoided. I have four kids and not once has any of them come anywhere close to sitting on one of our DVDs (be it movies, PC games, or console games). And my wife wouldn’t misplace a DVD when she is cleaning because :eek: they are put away after they are used. I know time is precious, but really. It is not hard to find the 22 seconds (I timed it last night) to press eject, open the DVD case, insert the disc, close the case, and put the case back on the shelf.
As for waiting for games to load in your scenario above - sure the PC has the advantage so long as you are using Steam for all your games. Steam is a great service, but not every PC game I play is on it. I haven’t done the math, but my guess is less than a quarter are. At some point, you are going to have to pop that disc in the drive for an authentication check (unless you ::ahem:: bypass that somehow). I don’t dispute that there are more steps involved with a console, but the difference (for me) is truly negligible.
I am not arguing that PC gaming is dead. I’ve been a PC gamer since I was typing in listings from COMPUTE! magazine into our family’s IBM PC XT back in the early 80s. I still play games on the PC for genres I find work well on it (mainly strategy). I used to play FPSs on the PC exclusively until very recently - SenorBeef may remember me from the CS:Source server he ran a few years ago (hey Beef - find Jayrot and get a game going again).
But now, I prefer playing on my PS3. So I don’t get the highest resolution (and CS:Source runs like crap at 1280x1024 on my PC - I have to run 1024 x 960 for acceptable peformance), but I don’t really care that much. I’ve never once said while playing BFBC2 on my HDTV “Boy, I wish the resolution was higher”. I reject the argument of “you don’t know what you are missing” because I do. My biggest hope/dream/wish for console gaming would be dedicated servers as opposed to the fairly inflexible listen servers I’m stuck with (thank heavens BFBC2 offers at least the option of selecting the map I want to play). I doubt it will happen and the PC will probably always reign supreme there. But for pretty much everything else, the console offers me the gaming experience that I want. And I’m the target demographic.
As I say, PC gaming is not dead. What it is though, is no longer the biggest guy in the room. Some people will lament that and have a hard time accepting it. It is fine to have a favourite, but it is wrong to say that one is abjectly superior to the rest.
Well, it’s interesting why this question keeps coming up.
You think it’s because of a PC vs console attitude.
I don’t think so. For one thing, I’ve joined this discussion as someone pessimistic about the future of PC gaming and yet I own a high-end PC and do not own a games console. If it were like the megadrive vs snes posturing of yesteryear why am I betraying my side?
It’s because I want to see games that innovate – not graphically but in gameplay.
And for the most part that’s what console games do, not PC games any more.
As I stated earlier, of the cherished PC genres, in my opinion, MMOs are getting set in their ways, and RTS games are both set in their ways and crap.
I’m glad you’re mentioning this, as some upthread seem to have assumed that “dying” means the complete end of the PC gaming platform. That if a single PC game is bought by anyone in the world the platform is not dying.
Clearly that’s not going to happen. But the point it’s at now, is where even taking into account steam and the like, the PC game market is small potatoes. And smaller stores don’t even have any PC games, or they may have a couple of console ports and a bunch of click adventures…yeah, that’s dying.
Just saying, but I haven’t put a video game disc in my drive since Fallout 3 came out. And prior to that, it was probably at least a year or so. More importantly, from the standpoint of PC games, very few of them read data off the disc after they’re installed. Maybe a quick CD check, but generally the game data requested is on the drive which is much faster to access.
For example, I played Mass Effect on PC and PS3. The load times were comparable. Until you edit the config file that forces the PC version to wait until the loading animation is complete, even if the level loaded much faster. Then you’re talking a huge difference in load times because the data isn’t on the disc.
Still, your point is valid. It’s not a huge deal, nor is it a significant factor in gaming choice for me.
What the heck is wrong with you? Cites I’ve given above not enough for you?
THE PC MARKET IS NOT SMALL POTATOES. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
And it’s not just my word here. ALL publishers have said so. Many developers have said so. I’m going to take a wild guess here and assume they know the state of the PC market better than you.
And the whole meme of multi-platforms being an after thought on the PC is blatantly untrue in most cases.
Mass Effect 1 on PC was a MUCH better game than on the consoles. Many devs take steps to make sure the PC version of a game take advantage of the freedom and larger number of control options on the PC platform.
I just peeked at pcgamer.com Super Meatboy for PC will feature: New achievements deemed too hard by microsoft to be included in the xbox 
and more special guests to unlock. Take a look at most game review sites. On most multi-platform games they make a point of saying how much the PC version is better.
I quite agree Little Big Planet is a hell of an innovative game, but what’s innovative about Red Dead Redemption? It’s GTA Wild West.
Uncharted was a hell of a game, but, again, it wasn’t innovative that I saw, not like LBP was.
I think my problem is that people aren’t bothering to read and respond to my points.
I’ve seen your cites: a spreadsheet of game review scores and one executive’s opinion on online distribution. I think these have been shot down thoroughly enough upthread, but if you insist on going through them again, we can.
Well, I was a game developer until a couple years ago when I decided to change careers. I have developed a PS2, PS3 and a PC game. All full-price titles.
Even two years ago when I stepped out, it was already the case that console and smartphone skills were in demand, but no-one seemed to give a damn about the PC.
It’s common practice to outsource the porting of PC games to relatively small outfits that deliver a (basic) PC version in just a month or two. And even then, directors may not consider it financially worthwhile to do even that.
However…
…I am not about to claim that the PC version of every game is inferior to the console versions.
It’s besides my point anyway; I’m more interested in what titles are available and what innovation they show.
The consoles all have a fantastic range of quirky and fresh games that cannot be bought on the PC. The inverse is not true.
I think you must have a very limited experience to say something like that.
Minecraft, Sins of a solar empire, Red Orchestra 2, Majesty 2, lego universe, Amnesia Dark Descent, Machinerium, Beat Hazard, Gratuitous Space Battles, The Ball, Alien Swarm, Shattered Horizon, Feist, dogfighter, Team Fortress 2 (the real Team Fortress 2, not the bastardized, un-updated version on the consoles), elemental war of magic, zero gear, Mount And Blade, Osmos, Trine, Torchlight.
All of those games are great quirky and/or fresh, and certainly fun. And that list is not at all comprehensive. And it doesn’t include all the great quirky and/or fresh games that started out on PC and made it to consoles, or started on consoles and made it to PC.
Edit timed out:
Really, it’s just utter BS to make a statement like that, man.
I leave you with some words from Ken Levin, man behind irrational games and Bioshock:
http://kotaku.com/5675559/the-future-of-pc-gaming-according-to-the-lead-creator-of-bioshock
You don’t have to reinvent the wheel to be innovative. RDR’s central mechanics were certainly lifted from the GTA series, but its updated physics, massiveness of the sandbox, and being the first game to actually do well with a wild west theme makes me think it deserves to be on a “Fresh games” list.
Uncharted 2 was also innovative in a nuanced and creative way. It might seem like minor and unnoteworthy to a regular consumer, but the aficionados of gaming noticed. Between its cinematography, animation, technical feats, and level design (e.g. the train level, which to my knowledge was unique in gaming in that Naughty Dog didn’t cheat for the moving parts effect). Such is why it got nominated in the innovation category at the Game Developers Choice Awards.