# Pc Strikes another blow for...um pcness? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2009, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777 "2009-02-28T07:56:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/21 "2009-03-01T18:56:03Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > This is getting off the topic of the original OP, but that link made me start swearing about “differently abled” again. I am paraplegic, and I consider “differently abled” just about the most **idiotic** (oops - that is a variation on “idiot” and “idiot” isn’t PC. Sorry! :D) term for someone with a disability that I can think of! Everybody in the bloody world is “differently abled” (any given person has at least slightly different abilities from every other person), so that phrase has no useful meaning. Amen. The new terms on the treadmill should at least have the same information content as what they are replacing (and not just more syllables). ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/22 "2009-03-01T19:09:34Z")
Can we at least slow the treadmill down a little? Some of these terms change often enough that I have a hard time remembering which one is the current ‘correct’ one. Fuckit. Retard, disabled, whatever. If you are those things, then they’re perfectly apt descriptors. If you’re not, then feel free to take offense–it is what was meant, after all. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/23 "2009-03-01T19:36:52Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > retard I’ve never seen or heard this used (as a noun applied to a person) in a nonpejorative sense, and I’m no spring chicken. I’m even old enough to use phrases like “no spring chicken.” > [@](#): > > Jerry’s kids “Jerry’s Kids” are beneficiaries of the Muscular Dystrophy Association, long supported by Jerry Lewis. If you are incorrectly using it as a synonym for “retard,” you shouldn’t be surprised if people call you on it. Really, this looks like another “I can’t freely insult people without being called on it!” thread. ---
**Author:** ![seodoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@seodoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seodoa)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/24 "2009-03-02T01:41:52Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I used to use purple pens in high school sometimes-so that would have been counter productive. > > (Although if anyone wanted to grade my paper in purple, that would have been cool with me-I like purple!) It’s actually a minor annoyance of mine when a student writes a paper in red ink. A few students in one of my classes have taken to doing it and it means I have to switch to a black pen for their papers. It really throws my grading chi all outta whack. Purple ink wouldn’t bother me too much, but when I get one in light green or yellow or some other pastel color it drives me nuts. My eyes are bad enough without having to strain them to read those papers. I’m all for individuality, but big boys and girls write their composition assignments in black or dark blue ink. And to address the OP: I have honestly never heard the word “retard” meant in any way other than as a pejorative. I have heard and seen “mental retardation” meant professionally and neutrally, such as in MRDD (Mental Retardation and Developmental Disabilities). But using the word “retard” just by itself is just a juvenile insult. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/25 "2009-03-02T01:48:07Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I think that’s about the right ratio. I never quite got why gifted kids needed more taxpayer dollars spent on them. It’s a safe bet they’ll do just fine without any extra help. Worst thinking ever! This is one of my primary gripes with No Child Left Behind, in fact: the law wants everyone brought up to average, but once you’re average the law doesn’t give a crap about you. Are you a kid with an IQ of 80? Your school will spend tremendous resources drilling you and drilling you until you pass the end of grade tests. You’ll probably fail anyway, but that terrifies the school, and rightly so under the law. By God, they’ll show that even an IQ 80 kid is going to Harvard! Are you a kid with an IQ of 150? Coast, kid, coast, because your school knows you’re passing the test. Expect minimal assistance, minimal teaching directed toward you: all the attention is going to Mr. 80 IQ over there. We NEED our brilliant kids to get a great education. We need a system that mandates that everyone gets to learn to their full potential. We don’t need a system that brings the low kids up to average and ignores the high kids\*. Daniel - I guess that’s what the War on Drugs is for. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/26 "2009-03-02T03:09:41Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > [http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=11&sid=139518](http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=11&sid=139518) > > long story short, mental retardation is no longer an acceptable term for use in Washington state laws …snip… Which basically only means that when writing these laws, they’ll be replacing one term with the other, stupid yes, but this isn’t something the general public is being made to do. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/27 "2009-03-02T03:46:45Z")
> [@Jayn\_Newell](#): > > Can we at least slow the treadmill down a little? Some of these terms change often enough that I have a hard time remembering which one is the current ‘correct’ one. Over the holidays, my elderly mother said something about “black people” and was told “Grandma, you shouldn’t say that – you should call them people of color”. And she responded "What! That was where I started 80 years ago: ‘colored folk’. Then you told me it was negro, then african-american, then afro-american, then black. And now it’s back to colored? I give up, I’m just too old to keep track of these terms. Besides, most of the time, I just call people by their names, anyway. We all laughed, but there is some truth to that. The ‘correct’ term does seem to change often, and there are some people around who seem quick to take offense when someone doesn’t use the most current term. They should save that until someone’s actions are offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/28 "2009-03-02T04:35:24Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Over the holidays, my elderly mother said something about “black people” and was told “Grandma, you shouldn’t say that – you should call them people of color”. Whoever told her that is retarded, because “people of color” refers to everyone but white people. There’s nothing offensive about “black”. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/29 "2009-03-02T04:41:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Whoever told her that is retarded, because “people of color” refers to everyone but white people. > > There’s nothing offensive about “black”. I wonder about that, as I don’t have the newest edition of the PC dictionary. I notice that the term has pretty much disappeared from newscasts, for example. I didn’t get the memo, dammit! ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/30 "2009-03-02T05:11:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Worst thinking ever! This is one of my primary gripes with No Child Left Behind, in fact: the law wants everyone brought up to average, but once you’re average the law doesn’t give a crap about you. > > Are you a kid with an IQ of 80? Your school will spend tremendous resources drilling you and drilling you until you pass the end of grade tests. You’ll probably fail anyway, but that terrifies the school, and rightly so under the law. By God, they’ll show that even an IQ 80 kid is going to Harvard! > > Are you a kid with an IQ of 150? Coast, kid, coast, because your school knows you’re passing the test. Expect minimal assistance, minimal teaching directed toward you: all the attention is going to Mr. 80 IQ over there. > > We NEED our brilliant kids to get a great education. We need a system that mandates that everyone gets to learn to their full potential. We don’t need a system that brings the low kids up to average and ignores the high kids\*. > > Daniel > > - I guess that’s what the War on Drugs is for. +1 The genius kid is bored out of his mind, coasting. In the meantime, he’s getting used to the notion that HE doesn’t need to study or do homework, as he’ll get by without any effort. He’ll never learn how to work on stuff that’s not interesting to him, as he’ll manage to pass that course without doing more than looking at the textbook every week or so. When he hits college, he’ll get his mental ass kicked by all the kids with an IQ of 110-120, who are smart, but who also learned how to study and learn stuff that’s difficult for them. On the other hand, if you challenge an intelligent kid, and push him to his limits, he’ll learn how to learn. He won’t just be marking time in school. No Child Left Behind is a failure. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/31 "2009-03-02T05:29:11Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > +1 > > The genius kid is bored out of his mind, coasting. In the meantime, he’s getting used to the notion that HE doesn’t need to study or do homework, as he’ll get by without any effort. He’ll never learn how to work on stuff that’s not interesting to him, as he’ll manage to pass that course without doing more than looking at the textbook every week or so. When he hits college, he’ll get his mental ass kicked by all the kids with an IQ of 110-120, who are smart, but who also learned how to study and learn stuff that’s difficult for them. > > … You just wrote my biography. I never learned to study, I didn’t need to until I was in college and suddenly up against people who actually applied themselves and worked. I blame everyone but me. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/32 "2009-03-02T06:57:39Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > I’ve never seen or heard this used (as a noun applied to a person) in a nonpejorative sense, and I’m no spring chicken. I’m even old enough to use phrases like “no spring chicken.” Same here. Saying that someone “is retarded” or “has retardation” is one thing. Saying “he’s a retard” is something completely different. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Whoever told her that is retarded, because “people of color” refers to everyone but white people. > > There’s nothing offensive about “black”. This is correct. But as an adjective please. Black people, black woman, black child. Not “the blacks” or “blacks are always…” or “he’s a black.” > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > You just wrote my biography. I never learned to study, I didn’t need to until I was in college and suddenly up against people who actually applied themselves and worked. Same here. I felt like a retard. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/33 "2009-03-02T07:04:27Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > You just wrote my biography. I never learned to study, I didn’t need to until I was in college and suddenly up against people who actually applied themselves and worked. > > I blame everyone but me. Ditto. I’m a non-traditional college student now, learning stuff I should’ve learned 20 years ago, like _how to do homework_. I literally did not do homework in public school. I mean, people _say_ they didn’t, but they mean they didn’t do it all the time, or they just didn’t like doing it. I didn’t do it. Working on anything for school once I got home was a completely alien concept to me. My test scores were always so good, though, that my teachers couldn’t bring themselves to fail me. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/34 "2009-03-02T07:09:50Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > This is correct. But as an adjective please. Black people, black woman, black child. Not “the blacks” or “blacks are always…” or “he’s a black.” While using “blacks” or similar terms as substantives can seem too harsh depending on the context, I wouldn’t always condemn it in every case, especially when you’re trying to avoid writing “black people, black people, black people” over and over. For example, saying, “The racial makeup of the space station crew consisted of 9 whites, 4 blacks, and 2 Asians,” does not seem objectionable. It’s understood that they are people; there’s no need to say the word three times. Of course, saying something like, “Blacks sure do love to rob stores, don’t they?” is racist, but more because of the attitude behind the statement. Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/35 "2009-03-02T09:22:04Z")
> [@neutron\_star](#): > > You think Carlos Mencia is funny, but you talk about retarded people as if you weren’t one of them. Mencia isnt all that funny most of the time, his stand up has some moments though. > [@TWDuke](#): > > I’ve never seen or heard this used (as a noun applied to a person) in a nonpejorative sense, and I’m no spring chicken. I’m even old enough to use phrases like “no spring chicken.”“Jerry’s Kids” are beneficiaries of the Muscular Dystrophy Association, long supported by Jerry Lewis. If you are incorrectly using it as a synonym for “retard,” you shouldn’t be surprised if people call you on it. > > Really, this looks like another “I can’t freely insult people without being called on it!” thread. meh call me on it all ya want, I will freely admit to being a retard on more than one occasion > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > +1 > > The genius kid is bored out of his mind, coasting. In the meantime, he’s getting used to the notion that HE doesn’t need to study or do homework, as he’ll get by without any effort. He’ll never learn how to work on stuff that’s not interesting to him, as he’ll manage to pass that course without doing more than looking at the textbook every week or so. When he hits college, he’ll get his mental ass kicked by all the kids with an IQ of 110-120, who are smart, but who also learned how to study and learn stuff that’s difficult for them. > > On the other hand, if you challenge an intelligent kid, and push him to his limits, he’ll learn how to learn. He won’t just be marking time in school. > > No Child Left Behind is a failure. wow this sounds…familiar for some reason. yeah never did like math after 7th grade, every day, every week, every month…go to class, teacher presents one equation, teacher explains one equation, students do 100 problems of that equation. needless to say I was bored out of my mind in the first week, teachers got whatever I could do in class for homework at that was it, then I had one ask me if I really thought I was learning anything in class…so I (a 7th grade kid at the time) pointed out to him that out of the 4 tests we had done in class so far my lowest score was a 97, I had the highest test scored out of the entire class. so they put me back in regular math classes, wow that was inspiring. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/36 "2009-03-02T14:53:09Z")
My wife got a masters in social work a couple years ago. The term they taught her in school was “delayed”. Prompting the less PC students to ask “Are they going to catch up?” In all seriousness, I think the problem (in as much as there’s a problem) is that whenever a new term becomes PC, it inevitably ends up being used to make fun of people – and thus, ceases to be PC. I’m not sure what can be done about this, though (assuming that expecting people to _stop_ making fun of those with disabilities is too much to hope for). ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/37 "2009-03-02T14:56:33Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > wow this sounds…familiar for some reason. > yeah never did like math after 7th grade, every day, every week, every month…go to class, teacher presents one equation, teacher explains one equation, students do 100 problems of that equation. needless to say I was bored out of my mind in the first week, teachers got whatever I could do in class for homework at that was it, then I had one ask me if I really thought I was learning anything in class…so I (a 7th grade kid at the time) pointed out to him that out of the 4 tests we had done in class so far my lowest score was a 97, I had the highest test scored out of the entire class. so they put me back in regular math classes, wow that was inspiring. I think you just described my grade 10 math class. Lord that was boring. That was the first year we could choose our own classes, but math was _required_ and everyone but the special ed kid was in the same class. Homework was never assigned–whatever wasn’t finished one day was assigned again the next with a few more pages. A couple of my friends and I were always done before the class was half over, meaning we literally spent more than half of our class time that year doing jack shit. You can imagine the day when the only work assigned was ‘finish what you didn’t from yesterday’s work’. I should’ve brought my GameBoy. (College was a predictable mess, with a sudden need to actually _gasp_ do work being compounded by undiagnosed depression which caused me to not give a shit. I’m glad I went, but I do wish I’d been able to find the energy to work harder.) ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/38 "2009-03-02T15:00:29Z")
I have to say, though, at least if another term displaces “retarded” I can feel less awkward using physics terms like [this one](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retarded_potential). Now if only we could change quantum mechanics terminology so that the [dual of a ket vector](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bra_ket_notation) didn’t share its name with a women’s undergarment. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/39 "2009-03-02T15:34:04Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > Mencia isnt all that funny most of the time, his stand up has some moments though. Probably when he steals something **really** funny by a really good comedian, and is very excited about having stolen it, so that he delivers it with extra energy and enthusiam— nah, still not funny. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777/40 "2009-03-02T15:36:51Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > My wife got a masters in social work a couple years ago. The term they taught her in school was “delayed”. Prompting the less PC students to ask “Are they going to catch up?” _Retarded_ literally means “slowed”, so _delayed_ is a pretty good substitute. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-strikes-another-blow-for-um-pcness/487777.md?page=3)