# PC vs Mac Simply Explained **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2001, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284 "2001-03-24T05:03:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![JoeyBlades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@JoeyBlades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeyBlades)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2001, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/301 "2001-04-17T21:20:21Z")
Hunter: Perhaps a comment is called for??? BTW, I should have pointed at the Apple web site. They also have a cost comparison of the low end Titanium against a Sony Vaio Z505. > **[Mac](https://www.apple.com/mac/)** > > Explore the world of Mac. Check out the all-new MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, iMac, Mac mini, and more. Of course, they were a little less careful about comparable features than I was, but I think that’s their point… ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2001, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/302 "2001-04-17T22:15:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JoeyBlades \* > I’m not saying that the BIOS is antiquated, though that argument could possibly be made. What I’m saying is that the file system is antiquated because it is based on standards and requirements of the original DOS BIOS. I’m in a hurry right now, but if you’re still not clear, I can probably say more tomorrow. \*\* BIOS stands for Basic Input/Output System. It a chip on your motherboard that helps control data traffic between whatever devices you have connected (hard drive, monitor, Zip drive, scanner, joystick, mouse, printer, etc.) and the CPU. It is not part of DOS, which is software not hardware, although you could say that DOS was designed around the limitiations of the BIOS chips in use at the time. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2001, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/303 "2001-04-17T22:57:59Z")
Hey, Joey… try comparing DESKTOPS. Y’know, the majority of computers in the country? These disingenious “proofs” are silly. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2001, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/304 "2001-04-17T23:15:58Z")
Hey - I’d like to see someone take on Joey’s challenge. Laptop - Desktop - they’re both still _computers_, right? Hell, I am writing this from my _ **LAPTOP** _ right now! More and more people are using them. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2001, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/305 "2001-04-17T23:31:04Z")
Joey, I don’t know how you managed to find a laptop that expensive. From Dell’s online store: Pentium III 1GHz 15" SXGA+ TFT Display (1400x1050 resolution) 512MB 32MB DDR 4X AGP NVIDIA GeForce2 32 GB ATA Hard Drive Modular Floppy Drive Internal 56K V.90 + 10/100 Mini-PCI Combo CD-RW/DVD Internal Combo Drive 2 59 WHr Lithium Ion Batteries 2 USB ports 1 IEEE 1394 **$3,999** So let’s see…the only thing I couldn’t meet was the 2 AC adapters (Why would you need an extra one?) However, every other option I exceeded, and it has the SAME price as the Mac. 512 MB RAM vs. 384 MB RAM…8 MB ATI Mobility (HAHA!) vs. 32 MB DDR GeForce 2…DVD vs. DVD/CD-RW combo…I think you get the point. > [@](#): > > **The Mac rated battery life is 5 hours** Depending on power saving features activated and the usage of the machine, of course. I’m sure you get far lower performance levels to get this duration of use. The only advantage that the Apple really has is it’s weight. The Dell weighs around 8 pounds with everything in it (DVD/CD-RW, Floppy, and Battery). And seeing as I’ve already compared desktops earlier…the ball is now in your court, with your point debunked. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/306 "2001-04-18T02:23:52Z")
**JoeyBlades** : > [@](#): > > Perhaps not, but the power user might want to know what “hcllpr.dll” is and whether or not he still needs to have it hanging around. Perhaps I wasn’t clear… the 8.3 filename is an internal detail that only comes into play when you boot into DOS. On NTFS there’s no 8.3 filename at all. If a filename is short and meaningless, blame whoever wrote it. The OS can handle long filenames perfectly well. > [@](#): > > And I like my computer to know the **DIFFERENCE** between the two Zip disks that I might be swapping in and out of the Zip drive… Every disk has a unique serial number and volume label. You just don’t have to know them in order to use the disk. > [@](#): > > On the Mac I can copy between two Zip disks with only one drive and without first copying the data to my hard disk. I don’t think Windows can do that, can it? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![JoeyBlades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@JoeyBlades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeyBlades)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/307 "2001-04-18T19:59:34Z")
Well done Monster! Since you exceeded the technical specs, I’ll ignore the fact that it doesn’t entirely meet the spirit of the challenge, i.e. (it’s not a slim-line notebook and it’s plastic instead of the cool, durable metal). More to the point, this laptop is 75% thicker, 90% larger (by volume), and weighs 50% more… not to mention the rated battery life is 40% shorter (oops, just mentioned it). I’m going to ignore all of that, because I think there’s a more important lesson to be learned from this exercise… Based on the configuration you found and the configuration I found, I would infer that for similarly equipped, high end laptop/notebook computers, the Macintosh is about the same price or less than the average Wintel cost. While this doesn’t do anything to prove my point about having found Macs in the past that were competitively priced with Dell computers - it does a lot to dispel the “myth” that Macintosh computers are intrinsically more expensive than Wintel computers (at least in this domain). But what of the desktop domain, as Mr2001 points out? Good question. I don’t know the answer, so let’s repeat the exercise for a desktop solution. Again, I’ll set the benchmark at the high end (my perogative as the challenged): So I choose the Power Mac G4 desktop 733MHz G4 CPU 133MHz System Bus 512MB RAM (expandable to 1.5GB) Viewsonic 19" monitor GeForce2 MX graphics card (32MB) 60GB hard disk 5 PCI slots (one used by video card) 2 FireWire ports 2 USB2 ports 10/100/1000 Base-T (gigabit) ethernet SuperDrive DVD-R/CD-RW (CD/DVD burner with CD & DVD authoring sw) Apple Pro speakers (digital Harman Kardon) Total system price from MacWarehouse: $3967 Now apple claims that the 733MHz G4 is up to 57% faster than a 1.5GHz Pentium 4… I’m not sure I believe that, but the comparable system should be at least a 1.5GHz P4. I have not bothered to look yet, for a competing Wintel system, but I’ll see what you come up with. I really don’t know what to expect. My guess is that a comparable Wintel system will be in the same price range, but it could be lower… Still not what you had in mind? I’m curious, myself, how a simple iMac would fair… At MacWarehouse I see the basic iMac for $899 450MHz PowerPC G3 128MB SDRAM 10GB Ultra ATA drive CD-ROM RAGE 128 Pro w/ 8MB 10/100BASE-T Ethernet 56K internal modem 15-inch display Two USB ports Two FireWire ports MicroWarehouse has a Compaq Deskpro for $699 Pentium III 733MHz 64MB SDRAM 10GB disk CD-ROM Drive: 3.5” floppy, 1.44MB Intel 3D Direct AGP, 4MB 10/100Mbps PCI NIC with WOL 2 USB I have to add a USB floppy to the iMac (about $75) to bring it up to par, but I have to add a monitor, modem card, 64MB RAM, and 2 FireWire ports to the Compaq… And this still doesn’t account for the fact that the iMac has more graphics memory and a port to drive another monitor. I’m not going to price all of that, but I suspect that we are talking about more than $275 worth of difference here… Can you find or build another configuration that meets or exceeds these specs? Yeah, I suspect you could, but that’s not the point. This PC price is comparable to what I see in adds for CompUSA, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc., which is where, “Y’know, the majority of computers in the country” are bought… Earlier, Monster asked: > [@](#): > > So let’s see…the only thing I couldn’t meet was the 2 AC adapters (Why would you need an extra one?) Several reasons: (1) It was part of the Mac configuration (2) I’ve gotten two with my last three Dell laptops and (3) it’s damn useful. I leave one at home and one at work so that when I’m just going between the two locations, my case is about a pound lighter. sturmhauke: Thanks for the lesson on the BIOS… > [@](#): > > …although you could say that DOS was designed around the limitiations of the BIOS chips in use at the time. I could and I did. Not just DOS but the entire file system… which is my point - it’s limited by the early versions of the BIOS architectural constraints. SPOOFE: > [@](#): > > These disingenious “proofs” are silly. Disingenious in what way? I made a claim (a valid claim that I can still backup, BTW). I was asked to demonstrate how this claim could be so. I showed one possible alternative. Monster showed a contray example. Maybe there are other ways of comparing. If you want to talk disingenious, then I think we have to consider the arbitrary claims by PC proponents that Macs (in general) are more expensive than PCs (in general). Mr2001: > [@](#): > > Perhaps I wasn’t clear… the 8.3 filename is an internal detail that only comes into play when you boot into DOS. On NTFS there’s no 8.3 filename at all. > > If a filename is short and meaningless, blame whoever wrote it. The OS can handle long filenames perfectly well. While NTFS is certainly capable of dealing with files that are not 8.3, in practice, these still litter my file system. I agree they are merely an artifact of the antiquated file systems that came before NTFS, however the bottom line is that they **DO** inject antiquated infrastructure into a modern file system. > [@](#): > > Every disk has a unique serial number and volume label. You just don’t have to know them in order to use the disk. Try this little experiment. Save a bunch of files to a Zip or floppy disk. Now manually eject that disk and replace it with another. Without asking Windows to do a refresh, try to open or move one of the files on the ejected media. Windows will unceremoniously tell you that there’s a file error. The MacOS will eject the current media and request you to reinsert the one with the file… much more user friendly. In fact, I can have dozens of disks that I swap in and out and the MacOS can keep track of them all. > [@](#): > > Yes. [Windows can copy from disk to disk with a single drive] Please let me know how to do this. I’d like to confirm it. ---
**Author:** ![unixrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3ec8ea/32.png) [@unixrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unixrat)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/308 "2001-04-18T21:14:27Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by JoeyBlades \* \*\* Windows will unceremoniously tell you that there’s a file error. The MacOS will eject the current media and request you to reinsert the one with the file… much more user friendly. \*\* Gah! I have nothing more to say about this than this is the ONE Mac ‘feature’ that makes me throw things at the monitor. I cannot count the times that the media has left (for whatever reason) and that damn Mac keeps demanding I put it in. I don’t know how to get out of it except for rebooting the machine, which I invariably have to do. Give me Abort/Retry/Fail any day of the week over this one… ---
**Author:** ![JoeyBlades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@JoeyBlades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeyBlades)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/309 "2001-04-18T21:14:27Z")
Doh! In that iMac configuration, I left off the ink jet printer ($100 value), which narrows the gap even more. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/310 "2001-04-18T23:33:53Z")
Ok, this is going to be a rather long post…just a warning. The performance PC systems I found come from Dell, Compaq, and Gateway: Dell PC P4 1.5 GHz 400 MHz FSB 512 MB PC800 RDRAM 60 GB UATA HDD (7200 RPM) 19" Trinitron Monitor 64 MB DDR GeForce 2 Ultra 16x DVD 8x4x32 CD-RW Turtle Beach Santa Cruz DSP Sound Card Altec Lansing THX Certified ADA885 Dolby Digital Speakers + Subwoofer 56K Modem 10/100 NIC IEEE 1394 Card (Not sure how many ports, doesn’t say) USB (Front and rear ports) **$3,807** (or **$3,267** with 256 MB PC800 RDRAM) Compaq PC Athlon 1.33 GHz 266 MHz FSB 512 DDR SDRAM 75 GB UDMA HDD (7200 RPM) DVD-R/CD-RW Combo Drive 19" Trinitron Monitor THX Certified Klipsch ProMedia Speaker system US Robotics 56k Modem 10/100 NIC USB (Front and rear ports) Sound Blaster Live! Value Sound Card 64 MB DDR GeForce 2 GTS **$3,545** (or **$3,110** with 256 MB of DDR SDRAM) Gateway PC Athlon 1.3 GHz 133 FSB 256 MB SDRAM 75 GB UATA HDD (7200 RPM) 19" Diamondtron monitor 16x DVD + 12x8x32x CD-RW Combo Drive Soundblaster Live! Value Sound Card 64 MB GeForce 2 Ultra IEEE 1394 TV Tuner USB 56K Modem 10/100 NIC Boston Acoustics Dolby Digital Speakers + Subwoofer **$2,729** Now, the first two systems come close to the Apple system, but the reason for that is the 512 MB of high performance RAM. You can take $540 off the Dell system by taking off 256 MB of RDRAM, and $435 off the Compaq system by lowering it to 256 MB DDR RAM. Considering that these two types of RAM have far higher performance levels than standard PC133 RAM, you don’t need as much RAM to get the same or better performance levels. Now, the Gateway system didn’t have the option of 512 MB of PC133 RAM, but it still has expandable space for more. So, you can add another 256 MB for less than $200 (You can even buy RAM as low as $100). As for the G4 vs P4, the G4 733 does have slightly higher performance levels in benchmark tests (nowhere near 57%). However, the Athlon 1.3 also beats the P4, yet I’ve never seen a benchmark test of an Athlon against a G4 system. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Athlon is at least equal to the G4. However, notice how every other option is equal to or BETTER than the options on the Mac, and still for a lower price. Now, trying to compare new systems from the manufacturer to systems purchased elsewhere is skewed. I look at the Appl Store and see: 400MHz PowerPC G3 64MB SDRAM 10GB Ultra ATA drive CD-ROM RAGE 128 Pro w/ 8MB 10/100BASE-T Ethernet 56K internal modem 15-inch display Two USB ports Two FireWire ports **$899** And it’s $100 to upgrade to 128 MB of RAM, bringing it to $999. Now here’s the problem: I can’t find a system brand new that meets these lower requirements. Here’re the systems I found: Dell PC PIII 933 MHz (133 MHz FSB) 128 MB PC133 SDRAM 17" Monitor (Smallest option available) 20 GB UATA-100 HDD (7200 RPM) (Smallest option available) 16 MB ATI Rage 128 Pro 48x CD-ROM 8x4x32 CD-RW (Hey, it was free!) Soundblaster 64V 56k modem 10/100 NIC Harmon/Kardon speakers **$1,298** Compaq PC AMD Duron 800 MHz 128 MB PC100 SDRAM 15" Monitor 20 GB UDMA HDD (Smallest option available) 16 MB TNT2 M64 Pro 48 CD-Rom Drive JBL Platinum Speakers ESS Allegra Audio 56k Modem 10/100 NIC **$943** Now, both these systems are in the higher-end of the value PC. They will both perform at higher levels than the iMac, with the possible exception of the fastest iMac (600 MHz G3, but it also costs more than these systems at $1,499) However, I’ve said many times that a PC can be custom-built for less money and higher performance than almost any Mac. I’ve already posted a high-performance PC that is inexpesive that can be built from scratch. I forget if I posted it in this thread or another one, but I will dig it up eventually. So, analyze this as you will, but I see this as rather condemning to the Mac. There are high performance PC’s available, near equal to the performance of the Mac, for lower prices. There are value PC’s out there that have higher performance capabilities than the iMac for equal or lower prices. My conclusion? PC’s are cheaper and still maintain the performance capabilities people want. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/311 "2001-04-18T23:43:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Since you exceeded the technical specs, I’ll ignore the fact that it doesn’t entirely meet the spirit of the challenge “The spirit of the challenge”? I thought the current challenge was “price versus overall function”. But then you said… > [@](#): > > (it’s not a slim-line notebook and it’s plastic instead of the cool, durable metal). More to the point, this laptop is 75% thicker, 90% larger (by volume), and weighs 50% more … Which are all superficial aspects that in no way effect the performance of the computer. So which is it? Are you trying to argue price/function, are trying to argue which one is more visually and physically appealing? > [@](#): > > Disingenious in what way? I made a claim (a valid claim that I can still backup, BTW). Disingenious because you are finding the cheapest example you can of a Mac, and finding the most expensive example of a PC. “Spirit of the debate”, indeed. My suggestion, Mr. Blades, is to drop this whole “Mac’s are cheaper” line, since it has less weight than a photon. (And, of course, I know the only refutation that will be brought against my brother’s evidence will be “Mac’s may be more expensive, but they’re worth it!”… which, of course, is not what Joey’s challenge was.) ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/312 "2001-04-19T00:59:57Z")
One thing I forgot to mention, if you would rather have a budget PC based on an Intel chip, you could always pick up a Celeron. They are much cheaper than PIII’s, and still have relatively high performance capabilities. However, I prefer Duron budget processors, because any Duron can be upgraded to an Athlon without changing motherboards, which can’t always be done with Intel chips. Not to mention that Duron’s have higher performance levels than Celerons. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/313 "2001-04-19T04:01:56Z")
I have no desire to get into this hardware pissing war, but I have to add on thought. My _time_ is worth something. My _peace of mind_ and _enjoyment_ is worth something. To not have to deal with some of the Windows annoyances or worries, hardware difficulties, to not have Photoshop freeze on me time after time - that is WORTH quite a bit to me. Not having to be careful about what software I install on my computer (because you can’t just install anything on a PC, for fear of conflicts) is WORTH something to me. And I think it’s worth something to many Mac users. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/314 "2001-04-19T04:04:29Z")
It’s unfair to make any comparisons to the Pentium 4, because it’s just [not very good](http://www.emulators.com/pentium4.htm). And as long as I’m dropping links… [G4 vs. x86 performance claims debunked](http://www.jc-news.com/parse.cgi?pc/benchmarking/xplat/ppc-x86). ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/315 "2001-04-19T04:17:17Z")
**yosemitebabe** : Hey, if you’ve found that your Mac is more stable and wastes less of your time than Windows machines you’ve used, go for it. Keep the Mac. But those are subjective measurements. My experience has shown me that PCs are more stable and waste less of my time, so where does that leave us? Suggesting that a person who’s never owned a computer would be better off with a Mac because you like your Mac isn’t very helpful. Although I’d much rather argue against “Macs cost more but they’re worth it” than this absurd “Macs are cheaper” claim. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/316 "2001-04-19T04:45:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > Suggesting that a person who’s never owned a computer would be better off with a Mac because you like your Mac isn’t very helpful. It’s no less valid than recommending a PC because you like PC. Which is what people do _every_ day. You obviously got a hold of some lemons of Apples (sorry, I had to.) Some utter pieces of crap. Your bad luck, obviously, but I think your experience is the exception, not the rule. If all Macs were as crappy as the ones you used, Apple would be out of business by now, and it would not have such a loyal base. As I have said in my previous posts, I would not recommend Macs to everyone. If someone just wants something really cheap that’ll get them on AOL, then a PC would probably be fine. If they want to play a lot of games, a PC would be the way to go. If they KNOW that they want a PC for specific reasons (like specific software, hardware tinkering, whatever) I would never try to talk them out of it. But if they are an artist who wants to get a graphics job, a Mac would be a good choice. (I’ve been looking at the want ads for graphics jobs in my area - a LOT of them _require_ Mac experience.) If they are a grandma who wants a friendly OS, a Mac probably would be the way to go. A Mac would be a good choice for a lot of people, for many reasons. > [@](#): > > Although I’d much rather argue against “Macs cost more but they’re worth it” than this absurd “Macs are cheaper” claim. All you can say is that Macs aren’t worth it to _you_. No worries - I won’t try to talk you out of that claim. They clearly are not for you. But they’re worth it to me, to Stoid, to AHunter, to Joey, to many many other people. And probably they’d be worth it to many other people, if they were ever allowed to find out about them. But the PC Weenies get their clutches in, go ballistic at the mere mention of Macs, and therefore a lot of new computer users get pushed into getting PCs. (That’s what happened to me, remember?) ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/317 "2001-04-19T04:56:48Z")
As **Mr2001** said, the P4 isn’t very good. It’s not as bad as that site claims, but it is still far below the performance levels Intel claimed it would have. However, this exact same thing happened years ago with the introduction of the Pentium Pro. Intel touted the Pentium Pro as the next step from the Pentium, even though it performed similarly. Then the Pentium Pro evolved into the Pentium II then the Pentium III. I expect the same exact process will happen with the Pentium 4. As for the Itanium…it’s going to be a piece of crap as well. Intel isn’t even really pushing it that much. However, it is supposed to get software developers used to making software for 64-bit and later, 128-bit processors. It is true that AMD Athlon chips run better than the Pentium 4, which is why I would like to see a comparison of an Athlon against a Mac (However, there are minor glitches that sometimes need to be patched with Athlon systems). ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/318 "2001-04-19T06:49:25Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s no less valid than recommending a PC because you like PC. Which is what people do every day. Of course it’s valid. Your opinion counts just as much as the next person. In fact, Yosemite, if I were a random shmoe on the street, I’d take your word over most others simply because you have experience with both machines. I think something Stoid hinted at (but only half-said) is that, plainly and simply, customers should be exposed to a wider technology base. I’ve seen the things Apple has been doing… they’ve managed to revive themselves quite well from five years ago. I don’t think they’ll ever replace PC’s, and unless Apple makes some really pathetic mistakes, PC’s will never replace Mac’s. And I think that’s a damn good thing… it promotes market diversity and competition. ---
**Author:** ![JoeyBlades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@JoeyBlades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeyBlades)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/319 "2001-04-19T22:06:23Z")
Thanks again Monster. You’ve done some good homework. You are showing much better results than I’m getting, looking at my local PC suppliers. I do want to point out something ironic: > [@](#): > > Now, both these systems are in the higher-end of the value PC. They will both perform at higher levels than the iMac… The irony is that Apple used to make the same claim… i.e. that their costs were higher because their lowest performance machines were higher than the competition… SPOOFE: > [@](#): > > Which are all superficial aspects that in no way effect the performance of the computer. So which is it? Are you trying to argue price/function, are trying to argue which one is more visually and physically appealing? Hardly superficial. Clearly the consumer pays for smaller size, lighter weight, lower power, and durable metal casings. BTW, the PC I chose in my example demonstrates that this was part of my goal, even though it was not explicitly stated. > [@](#): > > Disingenious because you are finding the cheapest example you can of a Mac, and finding the most expensive example of a PC. This is total BS and I really shouldn’t justify it with an answer… however, I point out that the Titanium G4 is actually the most expensive Mac you can buy (NOT THE CHEAPEST). I doubt very seriously that the Omnibook is the most expensive PC, for that matter. I simply selected the first slim-line PC that came close to the specs… This was not without considerable searching, BTW. > [@](#): > > My suggestion, Mr. Blades, is to drop this whole “Mac’s are cheaper” line, since it has less weight than a photon. You’re trying to place words in my mouth. My claim is certainly not that Macs are cheaper. Instead, my assertion is that when all things are considered and some attempt is made to compare apples-to-apples (no pun intended), some Macs are cheaper than some PCs. Or stated in another way, Macs seem to be about the same price or sometimes lower than the AVERAGE price for pseudo-equivalent PCs. So far, both with my data and Monster’s this has been demonstrated to be true. > [@](#): > > And, of course, I know the only refutation that will be brought against my brother’s evidence will be “Mac’s may be more expensive, but they’re worth it!”… which, of course, is not what Joey’s challenge was. You said it, not me… of course, who am I to disagree? I think you’re right, if you look at a total cost of ownership model, some people will find Macs to be the better buy (i.e. “worth it”). Mr2001: > [@](#): > > It’s unfair to make any comparisons to the Pentium 4, because it’s just not very good. That’s too bad because I suspect that means that Intel will fall way behind in the performance curve. The PIII architecture seems to be running out of gas… > [@](#): > > Although I’d much rather argue against “Macs cost more but they’re worth it” than this absurd “Macs are cheaper” claim. Again, that was not my claim. You’re hearing what you expect to hear, not what I’m saying. My claim was that I had found better Mac systems for cheaper, when compared to the specific Dell systems my company was buying. I then proceeded to show you a couple of examples with current configurations. yosemitebabe: > [@](#): > > It’s no less valid than recommending a PC because you like PC. Which is what people do every day. Actually, the single most prolific reason I hear nearly every day of my life is that Windows must be better because they’re 90% of the market… 500 billion flies can’t be wrong - cow shit is food! SPOOFE: > [@](#): > > And I think that’s a damn good thing… it promotes market diversity and competition. I take back every thing I was thinking about you. This is clearly the most intelligent thing you’ve said in this entire thread… [wink] BTW, I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again. I use and actually like both platforms. I happen to prefer the Mac, but I was using PCs long before I ever used a Macintosh. In fact, I hated the Mac at first. I thought it was a fad toy, but in those days my employer forced me to convert from PC to Mac. It was only later, after actually trying to benchmark my own productivity that I realized that the Mac was better (those were DOS days, BTW). Later, when my employer changed their mind and forced me to switch from Mac to Windows, I again resisted. However, I decided to give my Wintel boxes a chance to prove themselves. Unfortunately, with my personal productivity benchmarks, the Windows machines don’t measure up… In fact, for some activities, I still take work home and do it on my Mac because I can get it done faster and with fewer frustrations. Nevertheless, I use Windows every day and I’m OK with that. I’m not anti Wintel (I used to be), I’m merely pro Macintosh. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2001, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284/320 "2001-04-20T00:52:40Z")
[minor detail] You can’t burn DVDs with any of the PC systems that were compared to the high-end Mac system. [/minor detail] I’m willing to admit that one can build a really good PC for far less than the comparable Mac. I think the companies are overcharging you. This leads to the question which populations you wish to compare – complete beginners, small businesses, expert hobbyists, or whatever. I also think that having a basis in UNIX (with a command-line even) is good news for the Mac. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pc-vs-mac-simply-explained/59284.md?page=17)