# PDB from AUG 6 is out..full text in OP **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 10, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386 "2004-04-10T23:01:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/41 "2004-04-11T13:49:24Z")
By **iamme99** : “Exactly! For instance, they could have had the air force be a little more ready to send up fighter jets on short notice if necessary.” I’ve seen this complaint posted several times, that fighters weren’t deployed. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, what would these jet fighters have done? Do those of you who see this as a failure believe that airliners loaded with passengers should have been shot down over major cities in anticipation that they _might_ be headed for a building? Do you think that shooting them down before anyone was sure of what was going on would have been a rational act? Would _YOU_ have given the order to shoot down a loaded civilian airliner? If there is some other benefit these fighters would have provided I can’t seem to figure out what it would have been. Can you enlighten me? ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/42 "2004-04-11T13:54:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Do those of you who see this as a failure believe that airliners loaded with passengers should have been shot down over major cities in anticipation that they might be headed for a building? On the other hand, if you were aware that two passenger jets had been crashed into the World Trade Centre in the space of 20 minutes, and you had another hi-jacked plane in the sky heading towards Washington, you might have a tiny inkling of what was going to happen and the fighters may have been of some use, no? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/43 "2004-04-11T14:14:51Z")
> [@Avenger](#): > > On the other hand, if you were aware that two passenger jets had been crashed into the World Trade Centre in the space of 20 minutes, and you had another hi-jacked plane in the sky heading towards Washington, you might have a tiny inkling of what was going to happen and the fighters may have been of some use, no? In the uncertainty and confusion surrounding the morning of 9/11, would you have given the order to shoot it down? Would you have done nothing and hoped the passengers tried something? What would have been the right thing to do? I’ve thought about this at length, long before now, and I still can’t believe anybody would have given the “shoot” order, even if military jets were flying near it. It would have been tough to do. And since this is America, there’s this: Imagine the headlines: “Air Force kills hundreds because there ‘might’ have been another crash!” Imagine the lawsuits: “What proof do you have, General, that the airplane on which you ordered hundreds of innocent people murdered was going to crash into a public building?” If there’s something the fighters could have done other than shoot the airliners down, what would that have been? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/44 "2004-04-11T14:17:32Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > Do those of you who see this as a failure believe that airliners loaded with passengers should have been shot down over major cities in anticipation that they might be headed for a building? > Do you think that shooting them down before anyone was sure of what was going on would have been a rational act? Would YOU have given the order to shoot down a loaded civilian airliner? They’d made a decision in June that that the military weren’t allowed to shoot down hijacked planes anyway. > [@](#): > > [CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF > INSTRUCTION J-3 CJCSI 3610.01A > 1 June 2001 > AIRCRAFT PIRACY (HIJACKING) AND DESTRUCTION OF DERELICT AIRBORNE OBJECTS](http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/analysis/norad/docs/intercept_proc.pdf) > > 1. Procedures > > a. General. Military personnel will provide the following types of support: intercept, surveillance, lift, equipment, and communications. Military personnel may not participate in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity. This restriction would include the apprehension of aircraft hijackers or use of military aircraft (fixed-wing or helicopter) or other vehicles as platforms for gunfire or the use of other weapons against suspected hijackers. In addition, assistance may not be provided under this enclosure if it could adversely affect national security or military preparedness. So that part of the argument is misdirected. > [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > If there is some other benefit these fighters would have provided I can’t seem to figure out what it would have been. Can you enlighten me? I don’t know what they would’ve been able to do. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/45 "2004-04-11T14:31:00Z")
> [@Avenger](#): > > On the other hand, if you were aware that two passenger jets had been crashed into the World Trade Centre in the space of 20 minutes, and you had another hi-jacked plane in the sky heading towards Washington, **you might have a tiny inkling of what was going to happen and the fighters may have been of some use, no?** No. The word on the streets after 9/11 was that the attacks were **unthinkable**. Anyone who said otherwise got shouted down for sympathizing with terrorist madmen. Bush simply lead the nation in adopting this helpful viewpoint during the early hours of 9/11. Had he taken action against the remaining jets it would have shown that the attacks _were_ thinkable. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/46 "2004-04-11T14:39:01Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > No. The word on the streets after 9/11 was that the attacks were **unthinkable**. Anyone who said otherwise got shouted down for sympathizing with terrorist madmen. Bush simply lead the nation in adopting this helpful viewpoint during the early hours of 9/11. Had he taken action against the remaining jets it would have shown that the attacks _were_ thinkable. Do YOU think the remaining hijacked airliners should have been shot down? Do you see not shooting them down as a failure? Do you think YOU would have given the order to shoot? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/47 "2004-04-11T15:06:40Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > Do YOU think the remaining hijacked airliners should have been shot down? Do you see not shooting them down as a failure? > Do you think YOU would have given the order to shoot? Just curious. I _do_ think that at least the plane headed for the pentagon should have been shot down. Whether it _could_ have been is a question to which we’ll never know the answer. Not shooting it down wasn’t a failure, but getting paralyzed by the enormity of events to the extent that heaven and earth were _not_ moved to stop the attack was a failure. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/48 "2004-04-11T15:16:32Z")
It occurs to me that the “CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF INSTRUCTION J-3 CJCSI 3610.01A” I linked to above is located on a “questionable” website. So before anyone actually questions it, here’s a link to the same document on a .mil site: [http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610\_01a.pdf](http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf) (And yes, I’ve already verified that it says exactly the same thing.) ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/49 "2004-04-11T15:50:15Z")
**Squink** > [@](#): > > No. The word on the streets after 9/11 was that the attacks were unthinkable. Anyone who said otherwise got shouted down for sympathizing with terrorist madmen. Bush simply lead the nation in adopting this helpful viewpoint during the early hours of 9/11. Had he taken action against the remaining jets it would have shown that the attacks were thinkable. Yes, but the word on the streets after 9/11 has now been cast into doubt. That’s why we’re having this debate. > [@](#): > > Do YOU think the remaining hijacked airliners should have been shot down? Do you see not shooting them down as a failure? Of course shooting them down represents a failure. Do you think that allowing them to fly on and crash into buildings represents a success? The failure occured well before that point to be fair, having the airforce on a state of alert that would have allowed them to be a factor if required was only the last of a series of things that could have been done and wasn’t. > [@](#): > > Do you think YOU would have given the order to shoot? Just curious Who knows? As I’ve never had the slightest desire to be a World Leader, I’m not sure it’s really relevant anyway. I think that if a similar highjacking were to occur now, though, the airforce _would_ shoot, so I’m not sure your reservations about law suits, etc stand up. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/50 "2004-04-11T15:51:29Z")
Sorry, second and third quotes were of course **John Carter of Mars**. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/51 "2004-04-11T15:56:13Z")
> [@](#): > > _Spavined Gelding said:_ > You will remember that at the time the Administration was fully engaged in cranking up the Bush Tax Cuts and the Star Wars Missile Defense. The Administration had a full plate in the late summer and early fall of 2001. It was not in a mood to crank up a full court defense against what it seems to have thought was a remote threat, not when there were tax cuts and big dollar missile programs to run through Congress. That makes me think: any chance we’ll get a look at the PDPs that predict the Korean missle threat? I can’t imagine we will but it would be nice to compare Aug-6 with the type of memo that _does_ get their attention. I imagine more exclamation points. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/52 "2004-04-11T16:10:09Z")
> [@Avenger](#): > > **Squink** > Yes, but the word on the streets after 9/11 has now been cast into doubt. That’s why we’re having this debate. Exactly, and I maintain that this bizarre attitude about the attacks somehow being unthinkable was initiated, aided and abetted by the president’s lack of action on 9/11. Maybe living through the cold war has left me with unreasonable expectations of what government preparedness should be, but if, rather than terrorists with airplanes, 9/11 had been a preemptive nuclear strike by the soviets, hundreds of American cities would have been reduced to ashes before Bush stopped reading stories to schoolkids. I pay good money to the Feds for national defense, and it bothers me when they appear to be asleep at the switch like they were on the morning of 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/53 "2004-04-11T16:45:03Z")
From a statement of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence: > [@](#): > > Our review has uncovered several examples of intelligence reporting on the possible use of airplanes as weapons in terrorist operations. As with the intelligence reports indicating Bin Ladin’s intentions to strike inside the United States, the credibility of the sources is sometimes questionable, and the information is often sketchy. Nevertheless, we did find reporting on this kind of potential threat, including the following: > > · In December 1994, Algerian Armed Islamic Group terrorists hijacked an Air France flight in Algiers and threatened to crash it into the Eiffel Tower. French authorities deceived the terrorists into thinking the plane did not have enough fuel to reach Paris and diverted it to Marseilles. A French anti-terrorist force stormed the plane and killed all four terrorists; > > · In January 1995, a Philippine National Police raid turned up materials in a Manila apartment indicating that three individuals - Ramzi Yousef Abdul Murad and Khalid Shaykh Mohammad - planned, among other things, to crash an airplane into CIA headquarters. The Philippine National Police said that the same group was responsible for the bombing of a Philippine airliner on December 12, 1994. Information on the threat was passed to the FAA, which briefed U.S. and major foreign carriers; > > · In January 1996, the Intelligence Community obtained information concerning a planned suicide attack by individuals associated with Shaykh Omar Adb al-Rahman and a key al-Qaida operative. The plan was to fly to the United States from Afghanistan and attack the White House; > > · In October 1996, the Intelligence Community obtained information regarding an Iranian plot to hijack a Japanese plane over Israel and crash it into Tel Aviv. An individual would board the plane in the Far East During the flight, he would commandeer the aircraft, order it to fly over Tel Aviv, and then crash the plane into the city; > > · In 1997, one of the units at FBI headquarters became concerned about the possibility of a terrorist group using an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) for terrorist attacks. The FBI and CIA became aware of reporting that this group had purchased a UAV. At the time, the agencies’ view was that the only reason that this group would need a UAV would be for either reconnaissance or attack. There was more concern about the possibility of an attack outside the United States, for example, by flying a UAV into a U.S. Embassy or a visiting U.S. delegation; > > · In August 1998, the Intelligence Community obtained information that a group of unidentified Arabs planned to fly an explosive-laden plane from a foreign country into the World Trade Center. The information was passed to the FBI and the FAA. The FAA found the plot highly unlikely given the state of that foreign country’s aviation program. Moreover, they believed that a flight originating outside the United States would be detected before it reached its intended target inside the United States. The FBI’s New York office took no action on the information, filing the communication in the office’s bombing repository file. The Intelligence Community has acquired additional information since then indicating there may be links between this group and other terrorist groups, including al-Qaida; > > · In September 1998, the Intelligence Community obtained information that Usama Bin Ladin’s next operation could possibly involve flying an aircraft loaded with explosives into a U.S. airport and detonating it; this information was provided to senior U.S. Government officials in late 1998; > > · In November 1998, the Intelligence Community obtained information that the Turkish Kaplancilar, an Islamic extremist group, had planned a suicide attack to coincide with celebrations marking the death of Ataturk. The conspirators, who were arrested, planned to crash an airplane packed with explosives into Ataturk’s tomb during a government ceremony. The Turkish press said the group had cooperated with Usama Bin Ladin. The FBI’s New York office included this incident in one of its Usama Bin Ladin databases; > > · In February 1999, the Intelligence Community obtained information that Iraq had formed a suicide pilot unit that it planned to use against British and U.S. forces in the Persian Gulf The CIA commented that this was highly unlikely and probably disinformation; > > · In March 1999, the [intelligence Community obtained information regarding plans by an al-Qaida member, who was a U.S. citizen, to fly a hang glider into the Egyptian Presidential Palace and then detonate the explosives he was carrying. The individual, who received hang glider training in the United States, brought a hang glider back to Afghanistan. However, various problems arose during the testing of the glider. He was subsequently arrested and is in custody abroad; > > · In April 2000, the Intelligence Community obtained information regarding an alleged Bin Ladin plot to hijack a 747. The source, who was a walk-in to the FBI’s Newark office, claimed that he had been to a training camp in Pakistan where he learned hijacking techniques and received arms training. He also stated that he was supposed to meet five to six other individuals in the United States who would also participate in the plot. They were instructed to use all necessary force to take over the plane because there would be pilots among the hijacking team. The plan was to fly the plane to Afghanistan, and if they would not make it there, that they were to blow up the plane. Although the individual passed an FBI polygraph, the FBI was never able to verify any aspect of his story or identify his contacts in the United States; and > > · In August 2001, the Intelligence Community obtained information regarding a plot to either bomb the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi from an airplane or crash an airplane into it. The Intelligence Community learned that two people who were reportedly acting on instructions from Usama Bin Ladin met in October 2000 to discuss this plot. from [http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/2002/senatecommittee091802.html](http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/2002/senatecommittee091802.html) Of course lots of the intelligence was questionable, but it does show that the idea of using planes as weapons was hardly unthinkable. Additionally, that last is very interesting indeed, coming as it did in August 2001, and having in it the idea of crashing a plane into the embassy. Obviously, the idea of using a plane as a weapon was quite thinkable in August 2001. Combined with the info in the PDB about possible hijackings and the surveillance of Federal buildings in NYC, it shouldn’t have been much of a stretch to come up with the idea of a hijacked plane crashing into an NYC building, especially since information had been received in August 1998 relating to a plot to crash a plane into the WTC. But of course you’d have to be actually working rather than on vacation all the time to get anything done about connecting all of these dots. Probably it couldn’t have been done anyway, but it’s guaranteed not to get done if your main priority in life is spending as much time as possible relaxing at your ranch. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/54 "2004-04-11T18:20:30Z")
Get this: > **[Bush Says Memo Said 'Nothing About an Attack on America' (Published 2004)](https://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/11/politics/bush-says-memo-said-nothing-about-an-attack-on-america.html)** > > FORT HOOD, Texas -- President Bush said Sunday he was satisfied before Sept. 11, 2001, that federal agents were on top of the terrorist threat when he read a briefing memo on Osama bin Laden's intention to strike inside the United States. Bush says that the brief contained “nothing about an attack on America.” Hunh? Has he STILL not read the damn thing? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/55 "2004-04-11T18:21:05Z")
> [@](#): > > “I wanted to know whether there was anything, any actionable intelligence,” Bush said, and when he read the memo of Aug. 6, 2001, “I was satisfied that some of the matters were being looked into.” [Bush: Nothing Warned of 9/11 Attacks](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20040411/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_sept11) So, at least today, the president’s view of the PDB is that it was _not_ just an historical background report as Condi claimed. These guys really need to get their stories straight. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/56 "2004-04-11T19:52:08Z")
Thomas Oliphant, [“Facts Don’t Fit In Rice’s Picture”](http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/04/11/facts_dont_fit_in_rices_picture/): > [@](#): > > According to Condoleezza Rice, the pre-9/11 United States suffered from an intelligence and criminal investigation culture that precluded the effective sharing of sensitive information about terrorism among and even within frontline agencies like the CIA and the FBI. Oh really? > > So how come just after the first airplane hit the World Trade Center’s North Tower, CIA Director George Tenet told a breakfast date at a Washington hotel that he sure hoped the fellow who had been taking flying lessons in Minnesota wasn’t involved. Tenet’s remark to former Senator David Boren of Oklahoma > was a piece of a larger picture. His reference to Zacarias Moussaoui stemmed from a request made outside channels by FBI officials in Minnesota who were off the wall because they couldn’t get attention back here about their ominous arrrest of the guy on Aug. 16. The request was that the CIA seek information about him from the intelligence service in France, where Moussaoui had lived. The check revealed that he had Al Qaeda connections. The whole column is very much worth a read. This shitstorm has barely _started_, friends. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/57 "2004-04-11T20:24:27Z")
I just want to get this brief word in here before the rationalizations, double talk and butt covering takes over completely, not that it hasn’t been going on from the beginning, almost since the last girder fell off the World Trade Center. While the Carter, Reagan, George HW Bush, Clinton and GW Bush administrations may well have been inattentive and ineffective about the potential for damage that could be done by Osama and the Jahadists, the present Administration had **the Last Clear Chance** to forestall the events of September 11, but failed (perhaps reasonably) to react to the warnings and heightened activity that we see now was the ramp up to that tragedy. The present Administration may point to the failure of Clinton Administration to deal with and eliminate the threat before they came on board but there is no escape from the fact that the Bush Administration had **the Last Clear Chance** to act but but did not. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/58 "2004-04-11T20:44:33Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > …there is no escape from the fact that the Bush Administration had **the Last Clear Chance** to act but but did not. Exactly! To all those so-called conservatives who are defending Bush’s having been asleep at the wheel, ask yourselves this: what if precisely the same thing had occurred if _Gore_ had been president? If all this obfuscation, deception, secrecy, covering of asses, passing of the buck, etc. had happened during a Gore administration, would you still be as inclined to defend him as you do Bush? Or is it simply that party loyalty trumps national interest? If it were Gore, I am certain that all of you would be screaming for impeachment, and rightly so! You wanted to impeach a president over lying about an extra-marital affair…what about a president who lies about critical national security issues? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/59 "2004-04-11T22:43:46Z")
“I wanted to know whether there was anything, any actionable intelligence,” Bush said, and when he read the memo of Aug. 6, 2001, “I was satisfied that some of the matters were being looked into.” It is interesting to note that dub can pronounce “actionable intelligence”… back to back four syllables, a rhetorical tour de force for him… ``` or ``` (foil beanie on) ``` They've replaced old stumbletongue with an android, who, of course, is way smarter. ``` query:if true, is this good or bad? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386/60 "2004-04-12T00:08:15Z")
> [@squink](#): > > Maybe living through the cold war has left me with unreasonable expectations of what government preparedness should be, but if, rather than terrorists with airplanes, 9/11 had been a preemptive nuclear strike by the soviets, hundreds of American cities would have been reduced to ashes before Bush stopped reading stories to schoolkids. Aren’t you forgetting that the preparedness of the cold war consisted of retaliation? “If you kill us dead, we’ll kill you deader” was the deal. There was nothing available to prevent an ICBM attack other than the threat of retaliation. So, yes, hundreds of Amreican cities _would_ have been reduced to ashes in the event of a preemptive nuclear strike. The president could have been reading to kids or screaming into the red telephone, it wouldn’t have mattered. By **Avenger** : “I think that if a similar highjacking were to occur now, though, the airforce would shoot, so I’m not sure your reservations about law suits, etc stand up.” The information posted by **Desmostylus** makes it clear that the military is forbidden to attack a hijacked airplane. Even putting that order aside, I don’t think we’ll ever see the day when an American fighter is ordered to shoot down an aircraft that has civilian passengers aboard. There have been books written, and TV specials produced, about the following: FDR’s failure to anticipate and prepare for Pearl Harbor. Ike’s failure to anticipate and prepare for the Chinese to send infantry troops into the Korean Conflict. Kennedy’s failure to know Russia was installing ICBM’s in Cuba. LBJ’s failure to anticipate and prepare for the Tet Offensive. The above list could go on and on. If you guys wish to claim 9/11 is a unique failure by the Bush Administration, have fun. History indicates that it’s unlikely that an unprecidented act can or will be prepared for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pdb-from-aug-6-is-out-full-text-in-op/239386.md?page=4)