sven: How’s about the Japanese? Come on now, blanket statements like that are just silly.
In the words of president Bush “Democracy is a beautiful thing and that people are allowed to express their opinion, I welcome people’s right to say what they believe.” Note that he implies nothing about any tacit responsibility to proselytize for the beliefs of others.
jeel: But it frustrates me when the world blames the U.S. and U.S. foreign policy only during times of world conflict.
Where do you get the idea that “the world” is blaming the U.S. “only” for the problems in Iraq? Just from looking at signs at anti-war rallies?
The point of these anti-war protests is to protest the prospect of the U.S. (and possibly the U.K.) unilaterally starting a war that is likely to do much more harm than good to all concerned. The fact that Hussein is indeed an oppressive tyrant who is responsible for much of Iraq’s problems doesn’t affect that.
If you’re so sensitive about scrupulously acknowledging all the proximate causes of conflict and suffering, I hope you’re careful to show up at anti-war rallies not just with your anti-Saddam sign, but also with signs criticizing the British and French for their short-sighted partition of Middle Eastern territories after WWI, the Iranians for their part in the Iran/Iraq wars that consolidated Saddam’s power, and the US leaders of the 1980’s who welcomed Saddam as an ally. Because after all, anyone who protests something without acknowledging all the other causes of the problem is just a “self-righteous bastard.”
Maybe you can, but not in the way you mean. By waving an anti-Bush sign, you give Saddam the message that war may not actually take place. This makes him less likely to disarm his WMDs, which is probably the only way that war can be avoided,
So, paradoxically, your anti-war sign may have increased the chance of war.
Hey, why stop there? By waving that protest sign, you’ve created minute disturbance in the air that, by reacting in mathematically unpredicatable ways with other air particles, will eventually cause a hurricane that decimates the coast of China.
So, paradoxically, you’re peaceful protest may have caused millions of dollars of damage and killed thousands of people.
I believe the OP is refering to comments like this;
“Our right to dissent has been hijacked by this administration of liars and murderers,” added Danny Glover, an African American and popular Hollywood actor. “We stand here against re-colonization.”
and this;
RW correspondent Bill Swain interviewed one middle class woman who said: "I think it’s about empire. That’s what really frightens me. There is really a shift. Bush is trying to destroy the world. I think we have an extremist government that was not elected.
and this;
A contingent organized by the Revolutionary Communist Youth Brigade marched under red flags–their banner read: “The world belongs to the youth, not the U.S. imperialist murderers.”
or this;
Consider the slogans borne by some of the placards on display: “The Unelected Idiot Is Going to Start World War III”; “Bush, Stop Your Terror”; “Bush the Baby Killer”; “Illegally Installed, Immorally Behaved: He’s Not My President”; “President-Bush is an Oxy-Moron”; “George W’s War Drums Dishonor and Destabilize Lawful Democracies”; “Spoiled Fascist Cowboy”; “Bush Exploits 9/11 Tragedy for Dirty Oil”; “Bush Likes to Steal Presidential Elections and Iraqi Oil”; and “No More Lies: Regime Change Here.”
or maybe this;
One particular placard illustrated this point quite graphically. Featuring side-by-side photographs of Bush and Saddam, it read, “Two of a Kind, Hussein and Insein, Both Unelected, Both Psychotic”; Bush’s face was adorned with a Hitler-style moustache, the hairs of which were formed by black letters spelling the word “Florida.”
And there’s plenty more where all of the above came from.
These were anti-american/anti-Bush protests with a small speck here and there of truely honest anti-war protesters. To say anything else is bullshit.
That crazy, wacky “liberal” media for some bizarre reason is then not doing a very good job of positively representing the millions of protesters who took part. When I went online for news stories on the protests, the picture CNN had decided to use in their online article was of the one in . . . Baghdad!!! And, take a wild guess what was happening in the picture? Yup, burning the U.S. flag, which I seriously doubt you saw much of in all those protests you say you personally witnessed (How many were there in Santa Fe btw? ;)).
To me, even though Osama “Wanted Dead or Live” Bin Laden was responsible for 9/11, our govt. has failed to catch him and has basically ignored him, once the administration saw the slippery bastard unwilling to stand still for our missiles. I doubt this message was absent from those who participated.
Here is my pacifist, anti-Bush ass:
(l)
Now BITE IT!
Um, CLedet,
you went to Frontpage Magazine for some unbiased selections of slogans from the rallies??? Give me a break.
If I were to do a story on a Pro-Life march and I went to some radical feminist ultra-leftwing “womyns” group on one side and then on the other side, went to participants of the rally who believe in blowing up clinics and killing abortion doctors, would their selection of slogans be representative? Hardly.
You did a similar thing and went to the extreme on both ends.
Actually, wasn’t in SF this past week/weekend, I was in Las Vegas NV and witnessed two different groups of protesters…about a couple of hundred in one and a few less people in the other. So, my personal witnessing was very limited, but I did watch all different news services on both ends and the middle of the left-right scale and I still do not remember seeing any Anti-Saddam protesters.
Hmm. Don’t like the source but can’t refute what was said or shown. Then provide your own cites.
I provided cite from both ends, how fair is that?
Whats up your ass? Did Bush shoot a dog?
“When Japan did it to us at Pearl Harbor in 1941, we and the rest of the right-thinking world were outraged.”
Yes and we , the United States have knelt on bended knee to kiss their asses ever since. Make sense? Not to me it doesn’t.
“Attacking Saddam will guarantee that the U.S. and any allies that go in with us will forever be the targets of Muslim terrorists.”
Like if we don’t you can be sure we wont anyway?
“This proposed war is the workings uncreative minds who haven’t tried hard enough.”
Oh? ten years of appeasing idiots like Saddam with a UN full of maniacs just like Saddam isn’t enough? Creative? LOL…ok.
No…well, probably, but that’s not why I was pissed. It just seems like war protestors are getting bashed everywhere I turn, radio, TV and internet. I’m sick of being called “anti-American,” “pro-Saddam,” etc. when I saw this OP, I just thought “Oh fuck, I’m sick of this shit,” so I decided to tell the OP to bite my ass. Actually, Jeel’s OP isn’t that bad, now that I actually read it. Not terribly clever, but not as vitriolic as some other things I’ve heard and read.
All those anti-Iraqi, anti-freedom warmongers can still bite my ass, though.
LOL…
Nope. You can’t argue against and stifle dissent by claiming that an enemy will twist your words to his advantage. Hussein can just as easily twist Bush’s words and actions to his benefit. And has.
I can’t help what Hussein might say about the protests, but I expect that everybody knows what he’s saying is bullshit.
I’m counting on my government taking notice of my dissent and weighing it against what they now and acting accordingly. I could care less what Hussein thinks.
I’ll tell ya why jeel, they’re full of shit…chickenshit at that
If they really wanted to fuckin protest. They’d have their ass in Iraq where the shit is happening. No, let’s protest where it’s fucking safe and we can all feel like we’ve done something. (other than make the US look like a bunch of fucking losers)
Y’all voted for the SOB…live w/ it!
somebody had to say it 
[pacino]Great Ass!![/pacino]
Just so you know, in Australia we were protesting because we don’t want out countrymen dying in Bush’s war that shouldn’t even be taking place in the first place. we’re talking to our government as well as (to a far lesser extent) yours. Yes, oh my fucking god, we have politics too!!!
You don’t see many people carrying “No Saddam” signs because when you’re trying to send out a message, you think practically. Considering that the UK, the US and Australia are meant to be reasonably sensible, democratic, rational countries, it seems to me to be a far more sensible approach to try and change what you can have an impact on. Saddam ain’t going to listen to protesters in other countries, but our own governments may well do so.
If we had to list every dictator that we don’t approve on our sign, we’d have to carry huge signs and half the names on there wouldn’t even be recognisable to most people reading the sign. Saddam is by no means the only, or the worst crackpot dictator out there.
And finally, to most people, it’s just taken for granted that Saddam is bad news. When was the last time you went to the streets with signs saying “LET’S KEEP PRE-SCHOOLERS FROM PILOTING JETPLANES.”
The only people who seriously think that peace-protesters support Saddam are the fucked-in-the-head right wing commentators looking for a chance to bash anyone who dares deviate from the official Bush/Blair/Howard line. Moronic fuckwads like yourself, jeel.
So … past military misadventures give us the right to continue along the same misguided path?
Here’s a dose of your logic: I’m a child molester, and have been one for 10 years or so. It’s what I do.