# Peaceful honest people can lick it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 29, 2000, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663 "2000-02-29T23:25:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2000, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/21 "2000-03-03T21:53:00Z")
Cheap shot or not, it made me giggle. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2000, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/22 "2000-03-03T23:34:00Z")
Er, **Bj0rn**? _ **WWWWHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSHHHH.** _ ---
**Author:** ![Sake\_Samurai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sake\_Samurai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sake_Samurai)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2000, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/23 "2000-03-03T23:53:00Z")
Bj0rn’s just upset because you made an unflattering comparison between a fat woman and a whale. That’s just about the only wildlife they’ve got up there on that moss-covered volcanic rock in the North Atlantic, so don’t knock whales. They love their whales right up until they ram harpoons and armor-piercing bullets through their flesh and rip them asunder on their docks. Bj0rn’s whaling vessel probably has one of those **Mean People Suck** bumber stickers, too. * * * Yet to be reconciled with the reality of the dark for a moment, I go on wandering from dream to dream. ---
**Author:** ![Felice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e4f/32.png) [@Felice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Felice)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2000, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/24 "2000-03-03T23:58:00Z")
> [@](#): > > “peaceful honest people” whichnever really jibed with libertarianism to me, I guess. I always sort of agreed with Robert Heilein: You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don’t ever count on having both at once. ---
**Author:** ![Hunsecker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d78d45/32.png) [@Hunsecker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunsecker)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2000, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/25 "2000-03-04T04:30:00Z")
Right on Alphagene! All the libertarian debates in GD just make me want to go out and coerce the shit out of something. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2000, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/26 "2000-03-05T11:33:00Z")
Umm… this isn’t the cunnilingus thread? The lollipop thread? Seriously, isn’t the problem with Libertarians that they either assume that people are _generally_ Peaceful and Honest, or that it doesn’t matter if they aren’t? “If men were angels,” etc. * * * I miss my html. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2000, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/27 "2000-03-05T11:47:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Try telling your girlfriend that yes, that dress does make her look fat as a whale. So is that why you and Val were so late getting down to brunch? > [@](#): > > They think David Schwimmer is the sexiest man alive. You know Lou, you’ve got a bit of a Schwimmeresque look to ya, its gotta be he hair. ---
**Author:** ![Konrad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f475e1/32.png) [@Konrad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Konrad)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2000, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/28 "2000-03-05T19:19:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Bj0rn’s whaling vessel probably has one of those Mean People Suck bumber stickers, too. To the tune of Jingle Bells: Sailing through the fjords, on a one mast double-sail, after the whales we go, laughing all the way! ---
**Author:** ![Alphagene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Alphagene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alphagene)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2000, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/29 "2000-03-06T01:07:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Try telling your girlfriend that yes, that dress does make her look fat as a whale. > … > So is that why you and Val were so late getting down to brunch? ummm… yeah. Sounds good. Lay off the Coors, frat boy. * * * **Gypsy** : Tom, I don’t get you. **Tom Servo** : Nobody does. I’m the wind, baby. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2000, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/30 "2000-03-06T01:38:00Z")
You can call me a frat boy if you want damn it, but **I will not** stand by and be called a Coors drinker! Take that back, low blow! ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2000, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/31 "2000-03-06T13:41:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*Oh swell. The overused “take your meds” line. > > This is the Pit, genius. No one takes their meds here. Maybe you’d be better suited to MPSIMS, since you apparently dont “get” the Pit.\*\* How many times have we heard _that_ line? * * * rocks ---
**Author:** ![bj0rn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@bj0rn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bj0rn)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/32 "2000-03-07T13:49:00Z")
and people who make cheap remarks about a subject which they dont understand are rude as well… bj0rn - cant beat me at my game ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/33 "2000-03-07T17:25:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Seriously, isn’t the problem with Libertarians that they either assume that people are generally Peaceful and Honest, or that it doesn’t matter if they aren’t? > > “If men were angels,” etc. If everybody were really peaceful and honest, pretty much _any_ system of government would work. I’ve mentioned that to Lib a few times, but don’t remember getting any real response. The genius of the Founding Fathers was in coming up with a system that has given us a great deal of latitude, but still deals with the fact that, by and large, we’re anything _but_ peaceful and honest. * * * The mark of a truly great mind isn’t whether you’re right or wrong. It’s how well you can weasel out of a jam. - Unca Cecil ---
**Author:** ![ultress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/7c8e57/32.png) [@ultress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultress)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/34 "2000-03-07T17:29:00Z")
Alpha you better hurry guy or this thread is destined for the yellow folder. * * * _I’ve learned that if someone says something unkind about me, I must live so that no one will believe it._ ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2000, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/35 "2000-03-08T17:46:00Z")
**RT** > [@](#): > > If everybody were really peaceful and honest, pretty much any system of government would work. I’ve mentioned that to Lib a few times, but don’t remember getting any real response. With all due respect, I believe I have answered that a number of times. Okay, once more. It is precisely **because** so many people are not peaceful and honest that libertarians believe government is necessary — to **enforce** peace and honesty. If we thought like you think we think, that all people **are** peaceful and honest, then we would just be anarchists. And, once again, libertarianism is not a system. It is a **context** in which any arbitrary system may be employed **by volunteers**. **Jab** > [@](#): > > Trouble is, he doesn’t actually debate, he just repeats libertarian dogma. That is a dogmatic statement. Consistency is not dogma. (Before you quote you’re tempted to quote Emerson’s hobgoblin remark, _make sure you get it right!_ or I’ll slam you with the correct quote!) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2000, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/36 "2000-03-08T19:25:00Z")
> [@](#): > > The only thing I like about peaceful people is that their easy to knock down and steal their wallet from. Other than that these spinless twits are nothing but a pox. > > Lying twisted ass-kicking people are the only people that matter. So nyaaaahh. I’m reminded of a sentiment attributed to Jung, in my favorite book of all time. Something like: We’re all giants living in a pygmy’s hut, and we spend our lives bullying the other giants instead of knocking the goddamned walls down. 'Cept for the giants who like “7th Heaven”. They could benefit from a kick in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![ReservoirDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@ReservoirDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReservoirDog)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2000, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/37 "2000-03-08T20:13:00Z")
Come on, guys. Can’t we all just get along? I mean, if we just sit down and really explore our feelings honestly, I’m sure we can - [SCREEEEECCHHH!! BLAM!! BLAM!! RAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT! BLAM!! SCREEEEEECCCHH!!!] - aaarrrggghhhh…gurgle…gurgle… ---
**Author:** ![Alphagene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Alphagene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alphagene)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2000, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/38 "2000-03-08T21:13:00Z")
Me: > [@](#): > > Maybe you’d be better suited to MPSIMS, since you apparently dont “get” the Pit. RM: > [@](#): > > How many times have we heard that line? Apparently not enough. Now off to the Mary Kay Party with ya. * * * **Gypsy** : Tom, I don’t get you. **Tom Servo** : Nobody does. I’m the wind, baby. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2000, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/39 "2000-03-08T22:44:00Z")
> [@](#): > > With all due respect, I believe I have answered that a number of times. Okay, once more. > > It is precisely because so many people are not peaceful and honest that libertarians believe government is necessary — to **enforce** peace and honesty. Actually, Lib, no - you’ve never said that on any thread I’ve been on. And of course, since “libertarianism is not a system. It is a **context** in which any arbitrary system may be employed by **volunteers** ,” you’ve never exactly explained how there’s any guarantee of _anything_ being enforced. A libertarian whatever will have a strong military, and enforce peace and honesty - but what it consists of, well, depends, so we don’t know WTF it can enforce, do we? Putz. (best wishes, Wally!) * * * Enough of voting for the _lesser_ of evils - vote Cthulhu 2000! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2000, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663/40 "2000-03-08T23:48:00Z")
It must be fun to say, “here are the properties a libertarian \_\_\_\_\_\_ will have” (strong military, the ability to enforce peace and honesty), and then, when people ask how that will come to pass, you get to shrug your shoulders and say, “I dunno - libertarianism is just a context.” It’s like a boxer connecting with a punch, and then dancing out of the way when his opponent tries to nail him one in return. It’s also intellectually dishonest. It’s like politicians who claim that the money will be there for whatever they want, be it a big tax cut, new federal programs, or whatever - and when asked where the money will come from, they say “we’ll get rid of waste, fraud, and abuse,” or “the surpluses will pay for it,” as if the economy will never again take a downturn. It all amounts to the same thing: magic will make it happen. It will happen because I say the words, and my intellect is above reality. People have tried to nail you down on the mechanics of how the things happen that you will say happen on a multitude of threads now; it’s really a kind of joke. Hell, _you_’re getting to be a kind of joke. everybody knows that, when you’re asked to say anything concrete about your ‘context’, you’ll dance away, leaving the questioner with a lot of air, but you’ll have plenty of definite things to say about the ‘what’ it will be, if not the ‘how’. Be a _mensch_, for cryin’ out loud. Be a stand-up guy. Or admit that your whole ‘context’ is the Elven Fairy Dust Kingdom. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peaceful-honest-people-can-lick-it/4663.md?page=3)