# Peacemaker series **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, hbomax-wb-dc\ **Created:** [January 15, 2022, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829 "2022-01-15T04:18:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/121 "2022-02-17T19:08:53Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > You…you do realize that Peacemaker isn’t actually a good guy, right? I realize that in this show there are few true good guys. Sophie maybe. Not Ads. No heroes. It’a one of the themes. Oh a few are straight up cartoonish shits, like Augie and his gang, but no one is really a hero. They pretty much all do bad things for what they think are good reasons. Some have more regret doubt and conflict about the grey than others maybe … ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/122 "2022-02-17T20:47:12Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > At least Bug!Murn realized what he had done was wrong and awful, even if he felt like he had to do it for the “greater good”. How do you feel about Bug!Murn’s willingness to commit genocide of his species (starving them all to death) to avoid the murder of several thousand humans and potential preservation of the human species? Would you be thrilled with a human who sacrificed all humanity to prevent the murder of a small fraction of the Butterflies? Back to the hypothetical. Goff of course has 100% confidence that without their intervention humanity will be shortly extinct. Of course she could be mistaken but she is functioning based on what she believes. But you’d go with actions justified if it was 100% the case what would otherwise happen? How about 75% sure? 50%? I personally lean to what Ads called protofascist free will but I do not think it is black and white evil vs good. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/123 "2022-02-17T22:08:15Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Oh a few are straight up cartoonish shits, like Augie and his gang What is cartoonish about them? Do you actually think that there aren’t millions of Americans essentially identical to them? ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/124 "2022-02-17T22:16:51Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > How do you feel about Bug!Murn’s willingness to commit genocide of his species (starving them all to death) to avoid the murder of several thousand humans and potential preservation of the human species? Would you be thrilled with a human who sacrificed all humanity to prevent the murder of a small fraction of the Butterflies? The Butterflies are deliberately and systematically murdering humans - well, systematically, except when they’re casually murdering random human targets of opportunity. As you yourself have stated, there aren’t really any good guys in this series. But Team Peacemaker are attempting to stop a deliberate invasion, and literally every Butterfly appears to be a combatant. The Butterflies are murdering innocent civilians as part of a deliberate plan to institute a totalitarian dictatorship for “their own good”. The two situations simply aren’t even close to being morally equivalent. > [@DSeid](#): > > Back to the hypothetical. Goff of course has 100% confidence that without their intervention humanity will be shortly extinct. Of course she could be mistaken but she is functioning based on what she believes. But you’d go with actions justified if it was 100% the case what would otherwise happen? How about 75% sure? 50%? I don’t want to be a jerk, but frankly, I think this whole line of argument is silly. Of _course_ Goff is 100% sure. By definition. She’s a _fanatic_. Stalin and Hitler and Mao and Pol Pot were all mortally certain they were murdering millions “for the greater good.” And the real world simply doesn’t work by neat, spherical cow assumptions of cleanly defined and definite percentage risks. @Darren_Garrison’s “Trolley Madness” link a few posts upthread is a pretty good elaboration of the complexities of real world ethics. And then there’s the whole bit where the Butterflies don’t even seem to have _considered_ peaceful contact with humanity. They jumped straight to mass murder, meat puppeting, conspiracy, and totalitarian dictatorship, with the Butterflies as the literally untouchable elite and the vast mass of humanity as little more than livestock. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/125 "2022-02-17T22:20:43Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > The Butterflies are murdering innocent civilians as part of a deliberate plan to institute a totalitarian dictatorship for “their own good”. And not just civilians that are necessary to their plan, or who might foil it. They didn’t just take over that senator, they took over his two minor children - apparently, simply because it was more convenient not to have to fake being human in front of them 24/7. That’s pretty fucking evil. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/126 "2022-02-17T23:31:45Z")
Again. You craft a great fight scene with real tension by letting us know everyones weaknesses and strengths and capabilities. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/127 "2022-02-17T23:50:35Z")
For instance, Eagly? Not good with instructions. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/128 "2022-02-18T00:02:00Z")
All I know, is Im glad the usual bunch of cranky, no-fun, see ‘woke goblins’ under their bed at night, Youtubers…shot their wad against Peacemaker BEFORE the last ep came out. Man if they were crying about agenda and woke dialogue BEFORE we heard ‘proto-fascist libertarian ideas’? They probably had a stroke today. And thats speaking as someone who agrees with them more often then not. But I lean towards "Dont like it, dont watch’. Edit: On a different note…that cameo had me squeeling as much as any cameo we’ve seen in the last month in trailers and Spiderman movies. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/129 "2022-02-18T00:08:25Z")
Well hopefully they will cover how Wallers daughter went WAY too far. Task Force X…OBVIOUSLY…is a nessecity. She could have done the right thing without throwing the whole thing under the bus. The only thing for me that mitigates it is that Waller is a MUCH bigger scumbag in her two movies and here then in the comics where we really see the neccesity of the Suicide Squad. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/130 "2022-02-18T01:48:44Z")
What a fantastic first season. Gunn really is a genius. I hope Disney asks him to do some Star Wars stuff, though I’m not sure if he could do a full and worthy story without being allowed to include Earth music. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/131 "2022-02-18T02:00:40Z")
Love the entire season. Just the best. I’m glad this exists. I went from not liking Vigilante to loving him. And I was actually moved when Economos talked about dying his beard. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/132 "2022-02-18T03:48:50Z")
The biggest sin of Task Force X, is that they are using broken people as cannon fodder. There’s this seemingly huge gap between The Overpeople (the Gods who look on high from their moonbase, the JLA) and the people they need for things like The Butterfly mission. You need someone not broken but very good at what they do. Preferably a GOOD GUY. …man this could be a whole thesis… But its nearly impossible to find someone like that because there’s this immense peer pressure from The Overpeople (especially Batman. In the comics he was the guy who REALLY wanted to bring down Waller) to live up to their standards. So that just leaves you with people like Flag and Bloodsport and then a bunch of fucking psychos. So really its the JLAs fault that Task Force X even exists. As for Vigilante…its going to be hard to give a literal sociopath an arc unless they get him on some meds. And a comedic relief sociopath? Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/133 "2022-02-18T03:51:08Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > And a comedic relief sociopath? Good luck. Wade Wilson would like to have a worth with woo. Uh—you. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/134 "2022-02-18T04:32:40Z")
Comic or Movie? I cant answer for comic. Movie Wade isn’t a sociopath. Not by any means. He wouldn’t even kill baby Hitler. He genuinely cares for a number of people. Shit, he was going to sacrifice himself in the second movie for a guy he barely knew. Really, Deapool…considering he can break the fourth wall…is just Deadpool. He’s his own thing. A comedopath? Edit: To keep this from devolving into what is or isnt a sociopath…Lets say Deadpool isnt as socially inept and in a bad place as Vigilante ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/135 "2022-02-18T04:48:02Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > Task Force X…OBVIOUSLY…is a nessecity. Is it? Canonically, the two previous missions we’ve seen were cleaning up their own mess and covering up US involvement in creating an alien superweapon. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/136 "2022-02-18T05:16:02Z")
Solid solid season. I half wish they had decided to end it here, like the one perfect Watchmen season. I’d hate it if the next season turns out to be mediocre. I loved the first two Doom Patrol seasons but I haven’t been able to finish the recent one with the time traveling. I wouldn’t want that to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/137 "2022-02-18T12:05:58Z")
Finished the series. It went mildly off the rails towards the end (well, and throughout the whole run, really), but I enjoyed it a lot. In particular, I liked the _reason_ it was mildly off the rails - because one person wrote (and ran) it. It was not done by committee, and was unpredictable throughout. I think I enjoyed this more than any of the recent Marvel serieses, which seem homogenized in comparison. Looking forward to what will come of season two. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/138 "2022-02-18T21:53:17Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Oh, yeah, I totally agree with that. That was the whole arc of the show. Peacemaker was a straight-up _supervillain_ in _The Suicide Squad_, who had deluded himself into thinking he was a superhero. In this series, he started to really think about what he was doing and why, and grew and changed into a better man. > > Exactly the kind of growth and change that Bug!Murn very explicitly said he had stone the opportunity for from Hu!Murn. Literally the _only_ Butterfly who showed even the _slightest_ hesitation or consideration about murdering humans. At least Bug!Murn realized what he had done was wrong and awful, even if he felt like he had to do it for the “greater good”. > > The other Butterflies don’t even seem to _care_ that they’re murdering human beings. So, yeah, they’re not cackling villains who enjoy inflicting pain and suffering on innocent people. They’re fanatics who blithely and casually murder anyone and everyone in their way. Or just for their convenience. I think the whole point of the Peacemaker / Suicide Squad / Harley Quinn part of the DC Universe is being a “hero” or “villain” seems to largely depend on fighting increasing levels of supervillainy. Ads is right. Peacemaker did the right thing in freeing humanity to make their own decisions instead of live under our bug overlords. The Butterflys had their shot and blew it. Goff probably does believe what they are doing is right, but so does every fanatic. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/139 "2022-02-19T03:10:22Z")
BTW, it seems like a really bad design flaw to make the helmet voice commands work with the helmet off. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829/140 "2022-02-19T08:04:04Z")
I’m sure Auggie would be happy to take your notes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacemaker-series/957829.md?page=8)