# Peacenik Vandals Deface Canadian War Memorial **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 13, 2002, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513 "2002-11-13T01:51:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/1 "2002-11-13T01:51:05Z")
[Read all about it here.](http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035774251652&call_page=TS_News&call_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/News) What grade A asstampons. I think that it really furthers protester’s causes when they do stuff like this. And they choose to do this around Veteran’s Day, an almost holy holiday for our countries. The men and women in WW2 died to allow you to burn flags and say what you want. The veterans you meet are some of the most fervent anti-war people. Nice one, vandals. However, I think that the real issue here is respect for the dead. These people wanted to further their own agendas by disrespecting those who had died for a noble cause. Get some class, ass. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/2 "2002-11-13T01:56:55Z")
What, no photograph? I LOVE Canadian war memorials…very morbid and European, as opposed to most boring USA war memorials. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the one in Montreal. Ooooops…oh, yes, the OP. Bad form, peacenik vandals, bad form. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/3 "2002-11-13T02:24:53Z")
Oh, now that is just fucking low. Completely fucking LOW. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/4 "2002-11-13T02:44:24Z")
Eww. That’s disgusting. I might have some unpopular viewpoints but I try to express them with a bit of damn class. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/5 "2002-11-13T04:31:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ukulele Ike \* > \*\*I don’t think I’ve ever seen the one in Montreal. \*\* There are in fact several cenotaphs in Montreal. The vandals went after the biggest one. This and similar stories make the return of public whippings more and more desirable to me. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/6 "2002-11-13T05:03:12Z")
Fuckers. I hate that this happened on Remembrance Day. I hate that it happened at all. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/7 "2002-11-13T05:54:57Z")
☹ ---
**Author:** ![Rossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@Rossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rossarian)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/8 "2002-11-13T07:38:40Z")
You know, if someone wants to be a peacenik, fine. But what is that makes them feel like they can only voice their opinion by damaging something that is dear to veterans who don’t have anything to do with the current international situation? Go paint all over your own stuff if you want to make a statement. They claimed they were “updating” the memorial. This statement alone makes me irate. That day and those memorials are for the dead and those that fought beside them. Those memories don’t need to be “updated.” I can’t even imagine the feelings a Canadian who survived battles like Dieppe or Juno Beach must have felt showing up on Remembrance Day to see something like this. > [@](#): > > Nearby benches were also painted with, War is bad, Even in the name of Good. Being an asshat is bad, too. :mad: Well, the Free Poppies Group can shove their flowers up their ass. I say hooray for Canada. I don’t know if they had the same type of “America First” isolationists in 1939, but they had the good sense to ignore them and declare war on Germany 9 days after the invasion of Poland. They made immense contributions far greater than you would expect based on the size of the population and wealth of the country. Their contribution is hardly remembered outside Canada from what I’ve seen, and that’s not fair. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/9 "2002-11-13T10:54:03Z")
I think I don’t need to explain why Canadian war vets have a special place in my heart. Every country has its assholes, and Canada is no exception. Differing opinions -like matt said- are fine, but for Gods sake, this is wrong on so many levels. Hey, **I** oppose military action in Iraq (for now, at least). I can also see a grain of truth in calling the recently revamped US interest in Iraq the prelude to an “oil war”. But I’m also smart enough to know that the current situation in the Middle East has FUCK ALL to do with WWII (let alone I!)[sup]1[/sup], and my heart breaks at the thought of those poor vets finding “their” memorial ruined, on their national day of commemoration no less. Asshats, indeed. [sup]1[/sup] = Yeah, yeah, I know. Of course there is _some_ level of causality, what with the creation of Israel and all. Bite me. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/10 "2002-11-13T11:00:58Z")
I agree with Canadian war veteran, Hugh Alexander (from Red\_dragon’s link): > [@](#): > > They want to demonstrate against the war in Iraq, go to Iraq, and stand in front of the cameras, there, in the street when Saddam Hussein is shooting his rifle up into the air. In fact, Canada, why don’t you put them on a plane and send them there? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/11 "2002-11-13T11:08:47Z")
Really really awful. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/12 "2002-11-13T11:11:32Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* In fact, Canada, why don’t you put them on a plane and send them there? [\quote] Or they could just try crossing the border with the US. US immigration may do it for them 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/13 "2002-11-13T11:13:14Z")
I’ll do it myself for a very fair price. ---
**Author:** ![Dragon\_Phoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Dragon\_Phoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragon_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/14 "2002-11-13T12:21:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rossarian \* > \*\*Their contribution is hardly remembered outside Canada from what I’ve seen, and that’s not fair. \*\* For those of us who have not been here long enough to remember Coldfires classic piece on the remembrance of the dead of WWII: rest assured that most Dutchmen know what the Canadians contributed and will be eternally thankful for that. I will never forget the visit to a war memorial graveyard in Holland with thousands of little white crosses each marking the death of a young Canadian who had died far from home, liberating Holland. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/15 "2002-11-13T13:06:29Z")
We had a simialr thing in the UK in 2000 when “anti capitalists” sorayed graffiti on the cenotaph in London: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk\_politics/733601.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/733601.stm) Sometimes I just fail to understand people. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/16 "2002-11-13T13:12:55Z")
[Some](http://politics.guardian.co.uk/redbox/story/0,9029,748940,00.html) protests I can live with however. This one and ones is not good form at all however. Bad crusties bad. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/17 "2002-11-13T13:14:28Z")
Proof reading is not my friend obviously ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/18 "2002-11-13T13:35:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > **I think I don’t need to explain why Canadian war vets have a special place in my heart.** My grandfather, an RCAF fighter pilot, was shot down over Holland and was taken in by the Dutch resistance. When he was finally captured and sentenced to die, his Dutch friend, whose life he had saved in the raid in which he was captured, reached Allied lines in time to get them to send a force to take the town and rescue him. Hearing you say you appreciate our veterans just made me feel 100% better after reading about such ungrateful assholes, Coldfire. 200% better. Canada and the Netherlands have a little bond now I don’t think many other nations can attest to. It doesn’t matter if anyone else remembers. We do. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/19 "2002-11-13T14:07:21Z")
Amen, RickJay, we do indeed. Did you know at least one of the Princesses of Orange was born in Ottawa during WWII? While most people know and value the special relationship Canada and the Netherlands have, others seem keen on causing hurt and anger. I’ll just copy a post from me, from the May 5 thread, from about a year and a half ago. Fair warning: I was royally pissed off when I wrote it. > [@](#): > > I saw an item on a current affairs program tonight that showed me that we’ll never be done with this. It’s quite an incredible, and to me, revolting story. > > Throughout the Netherlands, about 2000 wrecks of allied aircraft still are burried under ground. They all crashed, most of them on their way from England to bombing German cities, or on their way back. Shot down by German ground-to-air artillery, stationed in the occupied Netherlands. It is estimated that at least 400 of those planes still carry the remains of their flight crews. > Let me state this as loud and clear as I can: we have a moral obligation to make sure these guys are burried properly, either here, or in their country of birth. > The government realises this too, and planes are being salvaged all the time. Of course, 2000 planes take a lot of time and effort. That’s why it’s been taking years. Then there’s the usual shit about paying off farmers whose fields you’re gonna tear open, et cetera. Bureaucratic stuff. > > The news item was about a Canadian bomber. On its way back from a bombardment over Dortmundt, it was shot down near the town of Wilnis, some 20 kilometers southeast of Amsterdam, on May 5, 1943 (by coincidence, two years prior to our liberation - to the day). The pilot told the bombing crew to bail, but he and two others went down with the plane. Eye witnesses state that in a heroic effort, the pilot managed to steer the flaming bomber over the village, circled close around the church tower, and crashed in a meadow just outside of town. The pilot prevented a disaster, and had to pay for it with his life, and the life of two others. They were aged 24 to 27. The planes wing had cut into the side of a ditch, and caused the soft ground combined with the water to quickly absorb the plane. When villagers ventured out to the plane the next morning (the Germans shot anyone who approached a shot down allied plane, so it wasn’t safe at night), it has almost completely subermerged. Near the plane, the torn off leg and arm of the pilot were found. The remains were burried at the Wilnis cemetary - since the locals didn’t know who were in the plane, they had no way of contacting the relatives. > > Fast forward to 2001. The local viccar has been in contact with the relatives of the flight crew of the Canadian bomber (it had been identified a year later by the RAF, see below). They all agree the plane should be salvaged, and the three men should be burried on Canadian soil. Fine, you’ll say. > One problem. The local government (who have to pay for the salvage operation) do not wish to cooperate. Reasons? A city council member states that “he has a financial responsibility towards the community as well, and the operation is too expensive”. Never mind that the viccar managed to raise 80,000 Guilders (USD 30,000) for the salvage operation within that same community. Never mind that the Dutch Ministry of Defence has stated that they will pay for whatever costs the municipality is unable to cover. Never mind the three letters the mayor of Wilnis received from the respective families in Canada, asking to salvage the plane. Asking to give them their brothers back. The mayor was quoted as saying: “This is a seamans grave, and should not be disturbed”. WTF?? A Canadian bomber under 2 meters of dirt is a seamans grave? Think again. Something’s fishy here. > > So, this news crew decides to investigate it. It turns out that the British RAF undertook a salvage attempt in 1946, but they had to abort because of insufficient tools. So after identifying the plane, they left again, leaving a big crater with a half burried bomber. The reporters were able to track down an official municipal note from late 1946, stating that “the hole was filled with construction debris and old metal, and covered up”. > You disrespectful bastards. You used the only grave these three heroes had for a WASTE BIN?? Men who gave their lives for our freedom? WHAT A FUCKING DISGRACE. > > The local government denies all charges, of course. They’re dodging ANY question having to do with the War. And the reporters found out why. All the Jewish inhabitants of the town were reported to the Nazis by the municipal administration weeks after the Nazis occupied the Netherlands. They were subsequently deported, and no doubt died a horrible death in one of the camps in Germany. Granted, this was a small town. The number of people handed over to the Nazis may not have been more than 20, 25 tops. But that’s irrelevant. You can easily see why this municipality is not exactly eager to open up ANY WWII file. > > Fucking bastards. It’s one thing to have been a complete bunch of cowardly traitors during the war. But that’s 60 years ago!! No one’s going to hold the current administration responsible for it. Hell, they might even gather a lot of respect for doing the right thing. Being open about what went wrong during the war, and being open about how they dumped city waste over the dead bodies of three Canadian liberators. No one in charge NOW is responsible for it. This has got to end, now. We can’t bring back the Jews they sent towards a certain death. But we sure as HELL can make sure those three young Canadian heroes get the grave they so rightly deserve. On Canadian soil, and not in a rotting aircraft, 2 meters under the surface of a Dutch meadow. > > A local man, who saw the crash happen and who found the remains of the pilot the next morning, ended the segment of the news item: _“Every year, on the 5th of May, the marching band I play in visits the grave of the pilot. We observe 2 minutes of silence, and proceed to play the Canadian National Anthem. It is a very peaceful moment, in which we thank these guys. Guys like you and me, that were sent over to fight for our liberty. And paid the highest price. You know, it makes me very happy to still be able to do this, at age 80. But you know what would make me really proud? My ultimate dream is to fly over to Canada next year, with my marching band. We’ll play the Canadian Anthem at their graves, when they’re properly burried in their own country. We’ll be there, on the 5th of May.”_ > > It’s not over. It’s not over by a long shot. > > Thanks for listening. Fucking hell, I’m STILL mad over this. Let me see if I can find some updates to this story. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513/20 "2002-11-13T14:26:53Z")
You know, I used to be in favor of military action against Iraq to enforce inspections, but based on the subtle and complex moral reasoning in the phrase “War is bad” painted on benches near a war memorial, I have completely reversed my position. Behaving like rectums is perfectly justified in this case. Only not. Regards, Shodan [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peacenik-vandals-deface-canadian-war-memorial/136513.md?page=2)