# Pedophiliacs: Should we feel sympathy for them? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pedophiliacs-should-we-feel-sympathy-for-them/510462 "2009-09-17T17:19:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Cesario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Cesario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cesario)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pedophiliacs-should-we-feel-sympathy-for-them/510462/181 "2009-10-05T03:10:18Z")
> [@bdgr](#): > > For a few years, I worked in an inpatient locked psych ward with children, many of whom were there because they were the victims of pedophiles. a couple of them, were also abusers themselves. I remember one in particular who at a young age was forced to have sex with his aunt, and in turn molested a small child…I had a few conversations with that kid, it was not hard to feel sympathy for him. It also did not excuse his actions. most of the kids who had been molested had no desire to do the same, but ALL of the pedophiles that I worked with, both on the kids unit and the adults, were also molested themselves… I’ve known plenty of pedophiles (myself included) who were not molested as kids. Of course, since you seem to be equating the terms “pedophile” and “child molester”, that might have something to do with the disconnect. > [@NineToTheSky](#): > > I’m not sure about this, but I think I am beginning to understand what Cesario is trying to say to us. I am posting this in order to see if he, and others, think I have got this right. > > Cesario, very strongly, wants to have sex with a child in 0-10 year age range. That, indisputably, everyone agrees with. > > Now, either he has adjusted his replies over his numerous posts, or his message is finally sinking in for me. He says he would only have sex with a child if that child consented. He has been absolutely adamant that rape (that is, coercion) is not his modus operandi. (But see below.) He now seems to accept that it is very unlikely that a child would be able or willing to give consent. > The only difference is, I think, that he believes that there could be situations where if he believes a child freely consents, it would then not be rape; I don’t believe that a child in that age range is ever, under any circumstances, able to give consent. > > This doesn’t in any way dilute my distaste for his thought processes, and while I am certain that if his criteria were met, he would act on his desires, he also accepts that those criteria are actually unlikely to be met. So the potential for harm is still there, but is being held in check by not being able to find a willing participant. > > Is that right? You’re close. Willing isn’t the only criteria, however. It’s an important one, but not the only one. I believe you’ve seen some of the others. ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pedophiliacs-should-we-feel-sympathy-for-them/510462/182 "2009-10-05T05:24:22Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve known plenty of pedophiles (myself included) who were not molested as kids. Of course, since you seem to be equating the terms “pedophile” and “child molester”, that might have something to do with the disconnect. Did you meet them at the NAMBLA conference? Hell there ARE pedophiles who are active pedophiles…need I refresh your memory as to " I Know My First Name Is Steven?" Not to mention that new case with Jacee or whatever her name was, who was kidnapped and kept in the backyard of that pedophile. Heck…there was a case in a city near me, where a litte boy was molested by a stranger in the reading room of a public library. It doesn’t surprise me that not all pedophiles were molested as children. The ones who were…you can kind of understand their thinking. I don’t condone it…but it’s the same bizarre thinking that leads to girls who were raped thinking that they can " heal" by sleeping with everyone in the world. The ones who weren’t sexually assaulted have some very deep-seated psychological issues. Not nessarily Freddy Krugar mental illness…but more like being very emotionally stunted or a personality disorder. You know…I thought that I read somewhere that almost all pedophiles in one study had been dx with another co-morbid. ---
**Author:** ![Cesario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Cesario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cesario)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pedophiliacs-should-we-feel-sympathy-for-them/510462/183 "2009-10-05T06:20:46Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > Did you meet them at the NAMBLA conference? I find that when I’m speaking out like this, people tend to approach me privately with things they aren’t comfortable speaking about publicly. > [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > Hell there ARE pedophiles who are active pedophiles… Again, the phrase “active pedophile” is meaningless. Use real words. > [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > need I refresh your memory as to " I Know My First Name Is Steven?" Never heard of it. > [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > Not to mention that new case with Jacee or whatever her name was, who was kidnapped and kept in the backyard of that pedophile. What in the world leads you to believe that person was a pedophile? > [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > Heck…there was a case in a city near me, where a litte boy was molested by a stranger in the reading room of a public library. Again, why do you believe this stranger was anything more than your run of the mill child molester? > [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > It doesn’t surprise me that not all pedophiles were molested as children. > The ones who were…you can kind of understand their thinking. I don’t condone it…but it’s the same bizarre thinking that leads to girls who were raped thinking that they can " heal" by sleeping with everyone in the world. Just like how being raped by another man turns a male gay? :rolleyes: > [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > The ones who weren’t sexually assaulted have some very deep-seated psychological issues. Not nessarily Freddy Krugar mental illness…but more like being very emotionally stunted or a personality disorder. You know…I thought that I read somewhere that almost all pedophiles in one study had been dx with another co-morbid. “Somewhere”? How very convincing… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pedophiliacs-should-we-feel-sympathy-for-them/510462/184 "2009-10-05T06:55:57Z")
I have no particular axe to grind but would like just to say this: In the UK there is, at present, outrage over 3 paedophiles who were exchanging photos’s of young children, these kids were aged around 18 months old and some even younger. The pics showed them being abused in various ways. **Cesario:** These are the very ages which you find sexually attractive (0-10) Are you really serious?. If you are then might I suggest you seek help. ---
**Author:** ![Cesario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Cesario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cesario)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pedophiliacs-should-we-feel-sympathy-for-them/510462/185 "2009-10-06T01:52:08Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > I have no particular axe to grind but would like just to say this: > > In the UK there is, at present, outrage over 3 paedophiles who were exchanging photos’s of young children, these kids were aged around 18 months old and some even younger. > > The pics showed them being abused in various ways. > > **Cesario:** These are the very ages which you find sexually attractive (0-10) And if some random jackasses half a world away were trading doctored photos of Jessica Alba being raped and beaten, I presume this reflects on everyone who finds Jessica Alba attractive? > [@chowder](#): > > Are you really serious?. Of course I’m serious. > [@chowder](#): > > If you are then might I suggest you seek help. No one ever thinks about what this “help” actually means. A friend of mine put together this informative packet for the benefit of people suggesting I seek “help”: > [@](#): > > As homosexuality becomes more and more accepted and more evidence surfaces that it is more of a hormonal and psychological difference, these movements have been losing force. > > In regards to pedophilia they’ve remained the same, if not picking up in force. > > Following is a list of treatment methods from a cited article in Wikipedia: > > **Anti-Androgenic Medication/chemical castration** > _“Anti-androgenic medications such as Depo Provera may be used to lower testosterone levels, and are often used in conjunction with the non-medical approaches above. (This is commonly referred to as “chemical castration.”) Gonadotropin-releasing hormone analogues, which last longer and have less side effects, are also effective in reducing libido and may be used.[32]”_ > Source: [Pedophilia - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#Medical_therapies) > > This method is opposed by the ACLU (url=[http://www.aclufl.org/about/newsletters/1997/chem.cfm](http://www.aclufl.org/about/newsletters/1997/chem.cfm)), on the grounds that it fails to address the psychological roots of deviant behavior, and potentially dangerous side effects such as diabetes, muscle fatigue and nightmares. In addition, it is the judge, not the doctor nor the offender, that decides when the treatment is stopped—in other words, it appears to be more of a form of punishment than anything. > > Furthermore, some side effects of Depro-Vera include: > "weight gain, fatigue, thromboembolism, malaise, hypertension, mild depression, hypoglycemia, erectile dysfunction, and rare changes in liver enzymes. > > … > > In addition to ethical concerns, chemical castration may increase blood pressure in males, sometimes to dangerous levels. Other side effects, such as the formation of abnormal fat deposits in the liver, are being investigated." > Source: [Chemical castration - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_castration#Side_Effects) > **Aversion Therapy** > _“Other programs induce an association of illegal behavior with pain by means of the more controversial aversion therapy, in which the pedophile is given an electric shock while fantasizing….[33]”_ > Source: [Pedophilia - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#Medical_therapies) > > This method has been denounced by the APA ([http://www.psych.org/psych\_pract/copptherapyaddendum83100.cfm](http://www.psych.org/psych_pract/copptherapyaddendum83100.cfm)) as successful in regards to homosexuality and violates many of its guidelines. In studies where its success has been measured, it has a 99.5% failure rate in the four studies that have been made on it. > > This method is used on “sexually deviant teens” as well, as shown in this particular paragraph: > > \*“Forced aversion therapy is still sometimes used on children and teenagers who violate sex laws, and especially used on individuals believed to have deviant sexual feelings. These youth have been forced to smell ammonia, describe humiliating scenarios, or engage in other uncomfortable situations, while looking at nude pictures, listening to audio tapes describing sexual situations, or describing their own fantasies. In order to measure sexual response, devices like penile plethysmographs and vaginal photoplethysmographs are sometimes used, despite the controversies surrounding these devices. > > In 1992, the Arizona Civil Liberties Union challenged the Phoenix Memorial Hospital for its use of these methods on children as young as 10. They were defended by the Association for the Treatment of Sexual Abusers. Since then, policies have usually discouraged the use of forced aversion therapy on children under 14.”\* > Source: [Aversion therapy - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aversion_therapy#Aversion_therapy_and_.22sexually_deviant.22_youth) > > Note that phrase. “Believed to have deviant sexual feelings.” > > Also not “discouragement” of the issue. What I ask is, why has this method not been made illegal for younger children? > > Furthermore, in general, reports on pedophilia “curing” have been extremely low, especially in this regard ([Pedophilia - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#Medical_therapies)). > > ETA: Although most of you will be familiar with what said “therapies” consist of, if you want a front-up image of what it actually is like you can come take a look at the Armenian Medical Network, located here: [Pedophilia | health.am](http://www.health.am/sex/more/pedophilia/). > > Take a look at the language used, the tone and the style. Is that the tone of a professional? Is that a neutral, analytical style? Is that language aimed towards helping individuals cope, or forcing torture in hopes that they’ll “convert?” > > …And now, just for remembering that site I need kitten macros. Plzthx. > **Lobotomization** > **“Convicted sex offenders, including many pedophiles, have been treated by the psychosurgical procedure commonly known as lobotomization. Psychosurgery has long been controversial…(see for instance Rieber et al. 1976;[35] Sigusch 1977;[36] Rieber & Sigusch 1979;[37] Schorsch & Schmidt 1979)[38] Lobotomization is generally no longer practiced and is prohibited in a number of countries.”** > Source: [Pedophilia - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#Medical_therapies) > > Fortunately a method no longer practiced and even prohibited in some countries. This is particularly frightening, as one would see in the book One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest. Not only is it irreparable, it has the capacity to completely destroy a person. On the chance that that person is later found innocent, there is no way to take back this procedure. > > **Thalamotomy** > \*"First introduced in the 1950s, thalamotomy is an invasive procedure, primarily effective for tremors such as those associated with Parkinson’s Disease (PD), where a selected portion of the thalamus is surgically destroyed (ablated). Neurosurgeons use specialized equipment to precisely locate an area of the thalamus, usually choosing to work on only one side (the side opposite that of the worst tremors). Bilateral procedures are poorly tolerated because of increased complication and risk, including vision and speech problems. The positive effects on tremor are immediate. Other less destructive procedures are preferred, such as subthalamic deep brain stimulation (DBS), since this procedure can also improve tremor and other symptoms of PD. > > Thalamotomy is an alternative surgical treatment of sex offenders in practice since the problems with leucotomy have been commonly known (see Greist 1990;[39] Diering & Bell 1991;[40] Hay & Sachdev 1992;[41] Rappaport 1992;[42] de la Porte 1993;[43] Poynton 1993;[44] Bridges et al. 1994;[45] Cummings et al. 1995)[46] and is increasingly advertised as an “effective therapy” for sex offenders (as well as for some children suffering from symptoms of child sexual abuse, since the 1980s (see for instance Andy 1970;[47] Bradford 1988a;[48] Wyre & Swift 1991;[49] Abel et al. 1992;[50] Bridges et al. 1994;[45] Cummings et al. 1995).[46] As Levey and Curfman have noted, however, given the availability of psychopharmacological treatment options, psychosurgical interventions are not likely to be employed given their extreme side effects and irreversible nature. See the same article for an in depth review of treatment options and diagnostic criteria. Additionally Reid 2002 writes that neurosurgery for sex offenders is “essentially unavailable” in the United States and that data on its use is sparse.[51]"\* > Source: [Pedophilia - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#Medical_therapies) > > Thalamotomy—also no longer widely practiced. See response to “Lobotimization.” > > **Role-play therapy** > _Klaus M. Beier of the Institute of Sexology and Sexual Medicine at Charité, a large university hospital in Berlin, Germany, reported success in a preliminary study using role-play therapy and medicine. According to researchers, the pedophiles were better able to control their urges once they understood the child’s view.[52][53]_ > Source: [Pedophilia - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#Medical_therapies) > > Out of all of these, this seems the least harmful and the most promising. A problem, however, is the fact that this is still in its preliminary stages. It also speaks about using “medicine—” it does not go into more detail than that, leading me to believe it is a drug like Depro-Vera or the like. > > **General Effectiveness and Overall Opinion** > _“A number of proposed treatment techniques for pedophilia have been developed. Many regard pedophilia as highly resistant to psychological interference and have dismissed as ineffective most “reparative strategies.”[31] Others, such as Dr. Fred Berlin, believe pedophilia can “indeed be successfully treated,” if only the medical community would give it more attention.[20] The reported success rate of modern “reparative” treatment on pedophiles is very low.[31]”_ > Source: [Pedophilia - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#Treatment) > > These methods are even being recognized as inhumane by pro-treatment parties: > > \*"…one little thing… > > _snip_ > > …just for the sake of clarity - while Dr. Berlin is the near lone-wolf leadership of the small “pro-treatment” voice - he also openly condemns [http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/157/5/838](http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/157/5/838) “reparative therapy” and inhumane “treatments,” and noted not only that “Individuals whose sexual orientation is directed toward children manifest the same range of personality, temperamental, and character traits as individuals whose sexual orientation is directed toward adults,” – but also that “It may be no easier for a person with pedophilia to change his or her sexual orientation than it is for a homosexual or heterosexual individual to do so.” > > So while the statement you quoted is true - the leading advocates of equal mental health access do advocate “nondiscriminatory and objective public policies” and “increased availability and access to appropriate psychiatric care,” - as opposed to the preemptive confinement currently established - the pro-treatment advocates openly condemn the current practices and techniques of “reparative therapy” as inhumane and ineffective."\* > Thanks to jd420 for the info. > > ```auto > > I was recently debating someone in regards to the successful treatment of pedophiles, and one study in particular cited chemical castration and psychotherapy (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9C04E6DB153CF931A25751C0A96E958260) as "successful." > > There are several problems with this article: > > 1) It only addresses Child Molesters, rather than nonoffending pedophiles. > > 2) As stated above, chemical castration has ethical and health complications. > > 3) Ah, psychotherapy. > > This article and many of its pro-ponets, at least to me, seemed to treat it as the catch-all end-all of "cures." Which is unusual, especially in regards to this: > > *"Many psychotherapists believe that the nuances of psychotherapy cannot be captured by questionnaire-style observation, and prefer to rely on their own clinical experiences and conceptual arguments to support the type of treatment they practice."* > Source: url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotherapy > > Is it just me, or does this not sound like anecdotal evidence? > > This is further supported by the fact that "there is considerable controversy over which types of psychotherapy are most effective." In other words--as there are different modes and different methods for "treating" patients, one must rely on anecdotal evidence to support their practice. They do not take into consideration the failed or ineffective cases--thus, the information is biased. > > Critics of psychotherapy also have this to say: > > *"[they] are skeptical of the healing power of a psychotherapeutic relationship.[13] Since any intervention takes time, critics note that the passage of time, without therapeutic intervention, can result in psycho-social healing despite the absence of counseling. [14] > > Critics note the many resources available to a person experiencing emotional distress: the friendly support of friends, peers, family members, clergy contacts, personal reading, research, and independent coping-- indicating that psychotherapy is inappropriate or unneeded by many. These critics note that humans have been dealing with crisis, navigating problems and finding solutions long before the advent of psychotherapy.[15]"* > Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotherapy > > Taking this logic, why do we assume that pedophiles need this type of therapy? To keep them from molesting kids? There are other motives of support that they can turn to--including family and friends, as well as finding other outlets for their sexual desires. > > Another interesting "method" of psychotherapy, psychoanalysis, also can be ineffectual. For one, it was conceptualized and founded by Freud, who has come under fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud#Critical_reactions) for his theories. For those of you who don't read the link, we'll take his insinuations that men who smoke cigars have subconscious homoerotic desires. This assertation gave voice to the popular phrase "Sometimes a cigar is JUST a cigar." > > Psychoanalysis has been criticized from the scientific and theoretical communities,(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoanalysis#Criticisms) and in regards to efficiency critics have had this to say: > > *"At least in the United States, psychoanalysis has usually been perceived as a form of insight-based therapy, with the goal of bringing unconscious thoughts or memories into consciousness. Some studies, however, throw doubt on whether insight is a necessary or sufficient means for improving a person's behavior or increasing their level of functioning (Fisher & Greenberg, 1977, pp411-412). > > There is even a great controversy among psychologists as to whether repressed memories actually exist. The whole recovered memory movement, which has flourished in the United States in the last decade, is now highly criticized by the advocates of the false memory syndrome (Loftus & Ketcham, 1994)."* > Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoanalysis#Controversy_over_efficacy > > In other words, psychoanalysis might not only be ineffectual in bringing about change in pedophilic behavior, but in essence a type of brainwashing or suggestion, as such memories may not even exist. > > ~ > > I was recently talking to my counselor about the information I was gathering on reparative therapy in pedophiles and how I viewed its success or lack thereof, especially regarding psychotherapy and psychoanalysis. > > She brought up a very important point in regards to that. > > At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, I will say that, after discussing this with her, that therapy might have some benefit. > > Now here's the catch.... > > This post, for the most part, has dealt with repressive therapy--as in, shutting these feelings away in hopes that they won't resurface, or digging deep to see "what the true cause is, then eliminating it." This is what most users have been arguing. > > My counselor argued that perhaps pedophiles not be forced or encouraged into aversion therapy or psychotherapy--but that the counselor encourages them to accept that they have such attractions, and that while acting on said attractions is wrong, simply having them is not. The counselor would then help the pedophile cope with these desires, rather than teaching them to deny or repress them. > > My counselor said that perhaps just having someone to talk to would benefit them. And considering how my relationship with her is much the same, I couldn't agree more. > > ~ > > In the end, it seems that while therapy for "fixing" pedophiles--offending or not--is a nice ideal, the odds are greatly against any change at all, and more for permanent mental scarring or brainwashing. My question is--if this is viewed as abhorrent for homosexuals, WHY is it A-OK to treat pedophiles--offending or no--in this way? I'm not even okay with some of these methods being used on offenders, since they border on "cruel and unusual punishment." > > Unfortunately, there are as of now, by societal decree, only two other alternatives to dealing with nonoffending pedophiles--accepting them and treating them ethically and civilly, or, as another poster put it, something to the extent of "holding a lolicon convention, rounding them all up" and then executing them. Hardly humane--but that is sadly the way of the human mind. > > The first is right now out of the question--as long as pedophiles are all seen as child molesters, truth or no, we must accept that understanding and accepting them as members of society is a goal that is far in the future, if in the future at all. And killing them is not much better; as evidenced in the poem "First They Came for the Jews (http://www.telisphere.com/~cearley/sean/camps/first.html)," the execution of perceived criminal and/ or demonized individuals can expand to other groups. > > So what, then, is the right answer? > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pedophiliacs-should-we-feel-sympathy-for-them/510462/186 "2009-10-06T02:39:45Z")
Because, for the 1000th time, homosexuals are CONSENTING ADULTS. It has been pointed out to you, time and time again, that children do NOT have the same mental capabilities that adults have. The power balance in such a relationship is completely unequal, and as such, at the very LEAST, it would be completely manipulative. But for fuck’s sake, can you PLEASE just summarize rather than reply line by line? It’s much, MUCH easier to reply to. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pedophiliacs-should-we-feel-sympathy-for-them/510462/187 "2009-10-06T08:03:30Z")
> [@Cesario](#): > > And if some random jackasses half a world away were trading doctored photos of Jessica Alba being raped and beaten, I presume this reflects on everyone who finds Jessica Alba attractive? > > ": Doctored photos are a far cry from non-doctored ones which the photos of the kids were. So you fail on that rather silly comparison ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pedophiliacs-should-we-feel-sympathy-for-them/510462/188 "2009-10-06T08:14:12Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > Doctored photos are a far cry from non-doctored ones which the photos of the kids were. > > So you fail on that rather silly comparison For Cesario, and anyone else who is unaware of the latest child abuse scandal here in the UK. I believe that this is what Chowder is referring to: [A Plymouth nursery worker and two other people she met online have admitted a series of child sex abuse charges.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8284192.stm) ---
**Author:** ![Cesario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Cesario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cesario)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pedophiliacs-should-we-feel-sympathy-for-them/510462/189 "2009-10-07T04:43:18Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Because, for the 1000th time, homosexuals are CONSENTING ADULTS. It has been pointed out to you, time and time again, that children do NOT have the same mental capabilities that adults have. And what mental capabilities are those? Seems to me I’ve been advocating a method of examining mental abilities. Was there some vital capability that you feel the proposal is missing? If so, I’d really like to hear about it so I can correct that oversight. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > The power balance in such a relationship is completely unequal, and as such, at the very LEAST, it would be completely manipulative. So adults never have power imballances, and any adult relationship without a perfectly ballanced power dynamic is inherently abusive? > [@Guinastasia](#): > > But for fuck’s sake, can you PLEASE just summarize rather than reply line by line? It’s much, MUCH easier to reply to. You’ve clearly got more than one main point, here, and each section of the post deals with only one of the issues you are raising. > [@chowder](#): > > Doctored photos are a far cry from non-doctored ones which the photos of the kids were. > > So you fail on that rather silly comparison Assume Jessica Alba really was raped, and people half a world away were swapping photos of it happening. Does this reflect on everyone who thinks she’s hot? ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pedophiliacs-should-we-feel-sympathy-for-them/510462/190 "2009-10-07T06:22:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Again, the phrase “active pedophile” is meaningless. Use real words. Why? B/c you don’t believe they exist? Um no. It means a pedophile who acts on his desires. They ARE out there. Not all kid as victim sex offenses are committed by one off child molesters!!! Hell, there was an active pedo who taught at my jr high! He had sex with two girls I knew, and convinced them that it was consentual and all the crap that you’re trying to advocate. One of them is now a very heavy drug user and the other one is quite emotionally fucked up. > [@](#): > > need I refresh your memory as to " I Know My First Name Is Steven?" > > Never heard of it. Ummm it was a HUGE deal back in the '80’s..There was even a made for TV movie abt out …that was the pedo who kidnapped a little boy for his own amusement , and then he kidnapped another little boy and they ran away. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet > Not to mention that new case with Jacee or whatever her name was, who was kidnapped and kept in the backyard of that pedophile. > > What in the world leads you to believe that person was a pedophile? Maybe b/c its been in the news that he was a pedo and not just a one off “sittuional” thing? > [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet > Heck…there was a case in a city near me, where a litte boy was molested by a stranger in the reading room of a public library. > > Again, why do you believe this stranger was anything more than your run of the mill child molester? It wasn’t situtional. He was a FULL BLOWN pedophille/ sex offender with a LONG sexual history and had even attended a school for boys who are sexual offenders. I remember vividly when all the stuff came out…it was one of those cases where it’s almost bizarre how stereotypical it was. > [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet > It doesn’t surprise me that not all pedophiles were molested as children. > The ones who were…you can kind of understand their thinking. I don’t condone it…but it’s the same bizarre thinking that leads to girls who were raped thinking that they can " heal" by sleeping with everyone in the world. > > Just like how being raped by another man turns a male gay? No. But at least NOW you’re admitting that sexual abuse of a child is rape no matter what. It’s more like how abused children can themselves become abusers > [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet > The ones who weren’t sexually assaulted have some very deep-seated psychological issues. Not nessarily Freddy Krugar mental illness…but more like being very emotionally stunted or a personality disorder. You know…I thought that I read somewhere that almost all pedophiles in one study had been dx with another co-morbid. > > “Somewhere”? How very convincing… What can I say? I read quite a bit. Do you expect me to document every single factoid I read? ---
**Author:** ![Cesario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Cesario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cesario)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pedophiliacs-should-we-feel-sympathy-for-them/510462/191 "2009-10-07T06:35:22Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > Why? B/c you don’t believe they exist? > Um no. It means a pedophile who acts on his desires. They ARE out there. > Not all kid as victim sex offenses are committed by one off child molesters!!! The phrase “active pedophile” is made-up. The term you are looking for is child molester. If you want to describe a child molester who is also a pedophile you use both those terms together, not some made-up failure of a term. > [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > Hell, there was an active pedo who taught at my jr high! He had sex with two girls I knew, and convinced them that it was consentual and all the crap that you’re trying to advocate. One of them is now a very heavy drug user and the other one is quite emotionally fucked up. They’re emotionally fucked up and using drugs because he convinced them that it is unsafe to engage in even consensual intergenerational sexual activities in the current climate and that we should be advocating for legal reform to make it so? You have no idea what I advocate, do you? > [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > Ummm it was a HUGE deal back in the '80’s..There was even a made for TV movie abt out I was seven by the time the eighties ended. It doesn’t sound like something I would have been interested in. > [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > …that was the pedo who kidnapped a little boy for his own amusement , and then he kidnapped another little boy and they ran away. As I’ve not seen this film, what leads you to believe the individual in question was sexually attracted to children? > [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > Maybe b/c its been in the news that he was a pedo and not just a one off “sittuional” thing? The news consistently fails to utilize terminology properly. The presence of the word “pedophile” on the news is not at all indicative of the actual sexual preferences of anyone. > [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > It wasn’t situtional. He was a FULL BLOWN pedophille/ sex offender with a LONG sexual history and had even attended a school for boys who are sexual offenders. I remember vividly when all the stuff came out…it was one of those cases where it’s almost bizarre how stereotypical it was. While that does sound indicative, I must point out that the length of a sex offender’s record does not actually indicate anything about their sexual preferences. > [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > No. But at least NOW you’re admitting that sexual abuse of a child is rape no matter what. It’s more like how abused children can themselves become abusers Oh please. Just because I recognize where you’re going with your analogies doesn’t mean I buy into them. :rolleyes: > [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > What can I say? I read quite a bit. Do you expect me to document every single factoid I read? I do if you intend to present these factoids as though they actually qualified as evidence. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pedophiliacs-should-we-feel-sympathy-for-them/510462/192 "2009-10-07T07:12:47Z")
> [@Cesario](#): > > Assume Jessica Alba really was raped, and people half a world away were swapping photos of it happening. Does this reflect on everyone who thinks she’s hot? I fail to see what it is you’re driving at, you keep coming up with scenarios involving Jessica Alba who I might add is an adult. The persons you advocate having sex with are children. Anyway I’m done arguing with you as you just refuse to get the point or to see reason What I’ll close with is this: Your very presence on this MB disgusts me, you are a self confessed paedophile and the sooner you depart this board the better. You sicken me ---
**Author:** ![Cesario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Cesario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cesario)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pedophiliacs-should-we-feel-sympathy-for-them/510462/193 "2009-10-07T07:20:18Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > I fail to see what it is you’re driving at, you keep coming up with scenarios involving Jessica Alba who I might add is an adult. > > The persons you advocate having sex with are children. I’m explaining the concept of guilt by association. In the immortal words of Groucho Marx, “Its so simple a child of five could understand it. Bring me a child of five!” > [@chowder](#): > > Anyway I’m done arguing with you as you just refuse to get the point or to see reason > > What I’ll close with is this: Your very presence on this MB disgusts me, you are a self confessed paedophile and the sooner you depart this board the better. > > You sicken me And that’s the real issue here. You ignore my arguments because you aren’t interested in having a discussion. At least this part has been honest. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pedophiliacs-should-we-feel-sympathy-for-them/510462/194 "2009-10-07T10:37:25Z")
> [@Cesario](#): > > I’m explaining the concept of guilt by association. In the immortal words of Groucho Marx, “Its so simple a child of five could understand it. Bring me a child of five!” > > And that’s the real issue here. You ignore my arguments because you aren’t interested in having a discussion. At least this part has been honest. No, the real issue here is you advocating the use of children for sex. I’d rather have a discussion with a mollusc than with the likes of you, your arguments are shit. And those are most definitely my last words to you [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pedophiliacs-should-we-feel-sympathy-for-them/510462.md?page=9)