# Peeing on the third rail **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 2, 2006, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024 "2006-05-02T00:21:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![solkoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@solkoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solkoe)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/1 "2006-05-02T00:21:52Z")
The Mythbusters episode “Peeing on the third rail” showed that it is possible but unlikely that a person urinating on the electrified rail of a subway car could be electrocuted. The problem seems to be that the urine stream breaks up into droplets on the way down and there is no continuous path of current from the rail to the body. I am reading “Dead Men Do Tell Tales” by William Maples. In the book, he claims that a famous New York transit official (or was it a politician?) often told the story of man being electrocuted by relieving himself at a subway station. The question is, does it happen? Has it happened? The folklorist on Mythbusters claimed that it is a classic urban legend. Perhap’s it is true and the people from Mythbusters missed it. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/2 "2006-05-02T00:43:03Z")
I saw that episode, and the Mythbusters were pretty convincing. Unless you were kneeling down next to the thrid rail and whizzing, the stream would, indeed, break up into droplets–hence nothing to conduct the electricity as you said. So, I’d have to guess that the NY transit official was propagating the UL. For research, you could see how close you need to get to an electric fence before peeing on it became a bad thing. From the inimitable Beavis and Butthead: _When I was young and had no sense, I took a whiz on a 'lectric fence. It hurt so much; it shocked my balls, And I nearly crapped in my overalls._ [sub]Apologies if B&B copied it from someone else.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/3 "2006-05-02T01:26:52Z")
Well, I can offer one case of peeing on an electric fence resulting in a shock. Our old collie, over 15 years ago, was witnessed by me to wizz on the wire, and definitely reacted **very** negatively to the experience. It took a while to coax him out from under the porch. And it was the last time he ever lifted his leg to pee that I saw again! Seriously, while it may be unlikely that the stream will stay intact enough to transmit electricity from the rail to the glans, why chance it? ---
**Author:** ![jake1964](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@jake1964](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jake1964)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/4 "2006-05-02T02:02:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Seriously, while it may be unlikely that the stream will stay intact enough to transmit electricity from the rail to the glans, why chance it? My thoughts exactly. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/5 "2006-05-02T02:29:46Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > , why chance it? Because Danger is my middle name. ---
**Author:** ![Ins\_Outs\_What-have-yous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8797f3/32.png) [@Ins\_Outs\_What-have-yous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ins_Outs_What-have-yous)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/6 "2006-05-02T09:09:17Z")
Ahem. [Thy Master speaketh](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_222b.html) ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/7 "2006-05-02T15:19:02Z")
For what it’s worth, I was electrocuted once when I threw an empty coke can onto an electric fence on a humid day. The current traveled four to five feet through the disturbed air. Sure, a third rail’s potential is several thousand volts lower than that of an electric fence, but I could see how a current could travel from drop to drop of an electolyte-rich liquid. Also, the urine would eventually heat up enough to boil which would make the air even more conductive. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/8 "2006-05-02T15:33:16Z")
Note to self: It’s okay to pee onto an electrified surface so long as you first sniff around and don’t detect the odor of boiled urine. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/9 "2006-05-02T15:50:12Z")
> [@cornflakes](#): > > For what it’s worth, I was electrocuted once… Nitpick: Evidently you were not _electrocuted_, because that means _killed_ by electricity. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/10 "2006-05-02T16:48:36Z")
When I was visiting Boston about 15 years ago, one of the colleges there (MIT, I think) had a display with a stream of water like from a drinking fountain and a stroboscope. You could vary the speed of the strobing, and at the right rate, the drops just seemed to freeze in air. They kind of wiggled a bit, but stayed in the same place and with roughly the same size. I was surprised at how regular the breakup of the stream into drops was. Changing the strobe speed a little, they’d slowly move back or forward. Without the strobe, the stream looked continuous. … or maybe it was a trick, and when the strobe was turned on, they also tampered with the stream somehow. …but I don’t think it was a trick. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/11 "2006-05-02T18:58:20Z")
Yes, you do get a shock from peeing on an electric fence. I watched a friend do it when I was a teenager and we were out hiking. There is no question in my mind that he got a hefty shock. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/12 "2006-05-02T20:42:48Z")
My freshman year in college, several of us managed to convince a very drunk and obnoxious jerk that it would be A Good Thing for him to whiz on the sparkplug of a running lawnmower. The jolt knocked him down and I would almost be willing to bet that his johnson sucked the last few drops back in. The dumb things that we do when we are young. I’m surprised anyone ever lives long enough to vote. ---
**Author:** ![jake1964](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@jake1964](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jake1964)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/13 "2006-05-02T22:40:39Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The jolt knocked him down and I would almost be willing to bet that his johnson sucked the last few drops back in. OWWWWW! I don’t think I can get that drunk. I’d pass out first. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/14 "2006-05-02T23:35:30Z")
Yeah, it’s happened in Chicago. _Lee v. CTA_, 152 Ill. 2d 432 (1992). [http://www.kentlaw.edu/classes/rbrill/torts/day/sup\_mat/index.html?/classes/rbrill/torts/day/sup\_mat/lee-cta.html](http://www.kentlaw.edu/classes/rbrill/torts/day/sup_mat/index.html?/classes/rbrill/torts/day/sup_mat/lee-cta.html) I admit that the Illinois Supreme Court was, um, somewhat euphemistic about the exact nature of Mr. Lee’s contact with the third rail, but I remember this case. It got some attention in the local press, legal and otherwise. Also see: > [@](#): > > Plaintiff argues that Fairmont should have reasonably foreseen that danger. In support of this argument, plaintiff cites Lee, 152 Ill. 2d at 452, 605 N.E.2d at 501, apparently for the proposition that Illinois courts construe foreseeability very liberally, and, thus, his injuries were foreseeable. Plaintiff seems to interpret Lee to state that it was foreseeable to the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA) that a man would urinate on the third (electric) rail of the “L” railroad tracks, and that electricity would travel up his stream of urine, killing him. Plaintiff is mistaken in his interpretation of the facts involved in Lee. Rather, in Lee, the plaintiff’s decedent, while heavily intoxicated, had apparently entered the CTA railway right-of-way in order to urinate, and in the process of doing so, he came into contact with the third rail, suffering fatal injuries. Lee, 152 Ill. 2d at 443, 605 N.E.2d at 497. **We will not speculate on the exact nature of his contact with the third rail. It suffices to say that Lee contains no mention, let alone discussion of the foreseeability of electricity traveling up the stream of urine and killing the plaintiff’s decedent.** Rather, the court departed from the traditional rule regarding duty owed to trespassers and imposed on the CTA a duty of ordinary care to properly warn of the third rail because there were sufficient facts to support a finding that the CTA had reason to know of the presence of pedestrians upon its tracks and had reason to believe that a trespasser would not discover the danger of the third rail and suffer injury as a result. Lee, 152 Ill. 2d at 451-52, 605 N.E.2d at 501. > > _Schmid v. Fairmont Hotel Co._, emphasis added, link to full opinion below [http://www.state.il.us/Court/Opinions/AppellateCourt/2003/1stDistrict/December/Html/1023614.htm](http://www.state.il.us/Court/Opinions/AppellateCourt/2003/1stDistrict/December/Html/1023614.htm) Ouch! Ain’t law fun? ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/15 "2006-05-03T03:11:57Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Nitpick: Evidently you were not _electrocuted_, because that means _killed_ by electricity. Correct. I was shocked, _shocked_ I tell you! ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/16 "2006-05-03T03:41:26Z")
Why bother with urine when you can have [fried vomit](http://solo2.abac.com/themole/tuberules.html#sick) An internet classic: > [@](#): > > The drunken slob chose that moment to start blowing groceries; he ch undered on the roadbed, the tracks, and the thi r d rail. The puke started to smoke on the 600 Volt third rail, and then there was a big shower of sparks from the rail, and a billowing cloud of smoke. Fried vomit. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/17 "2006-05-03T03:43:54Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Nitpick: Evidently you were not _electrocuted_, because that means _killed_ by electricity. [Monty Python]I got better.[Monty] ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/18 "2006-05-03T12:40:44Z")
> [@cornflakes](#): > > The current traveled four to five feet through the disturbed air. From an electric fence? Through the air? I doubt it. Air is a good insulator; it would take much higher current than that of an electric fence to jump over 5 feet of air. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/19 "2006-05-04T03:06:48Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > From an electric fence? Through the air? I doubt it. Air is a good insulator; it would take much higher current than that of an electric fence to jump over 5 feet of air. I can’t really explain it either, but it happened. It was in summer and the farm was just a few miles from the coast and Galveston Bay, so the temperature and humidity were probably both in the 90s. Also, there were lots of cattle around that tended to get out of their pastures, and Uncle Leo was a fairly bullheaded guy. I wouldn’t have put it past him to use the hottest fence charger that he could find. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peeing-on-the-third-rail/355024/20 "2006-05-04T04:11:12Z")
> [@cornflakes](#): > > The current traveled four to five feet through the disturbed air. I don’t believe it. I have an electric fence, and it’s attached to metal fenceposts with insulators about 4" long. If it could jump 4-5 feet (which takes a _huge_ voltage), then it would simply be leaking to the fenceposts. I’ve never seen an arc through air from an electric fence longer than an inch or two.